Couch 210: The Abundant Couch

chihirochild · Jan 18, 2020 at 01:50 AM

Had an excruciating talk with T today about the issue of wishing he would hold me when I’m upset. He was reasonably good about it. He also said that there will be absolutely no touch between us ever. I get it but at the same time I feel a little like a leper.

LostOnTheTrail · Jan 18, 2020 at 03:56 AM

That sounds incredibly harsh, Chihiro.

I can't remember what 'school' your T comes from, but I'm sorry he's being so rigid on this.

Quietmind 2 · Jan 18, 2020 at 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Had an excruciating talk with T today about the issue of wishing he would hold me when I’m upset. He was reasonably good about it. He also said that there will be absolutely no touch between us ever. I get it but at the same time I feel a little like a leper.

Hugs if wanted.

LonesomeTonight · Jan 18, 2020 at 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Had an excruciating talk with T today about the issue of wishing he would hold me when I’m upset. He was reasonably good about it. He also said that there will be absolutely no touch between us ever. I get it but at the same time I feel a little like a leper.

Hugs, if wanted. I'm glad he was mostly good about it, but that comment would have bothered me, too. It might be different if he said he just doesn't use touch with his clients. Dr. T said from the beginning that he'll shake hands with clients, "but I don't hug." Which to me feels different than if he'd said something like, "I will never hug you or touch anything but your hand, and that would only be when you're leaving." (He's also said he's not a touchy-feely person in his outside life either, which does not surprise me at all).

I do feel like, from anecdotal evidence, male T's seem more likely to avoid much touch with clients (aside from a handshake, if that). Obviously, there are exceptions, including some people who post here regularly.

Lonelyinmyheart · Jan 18, 2020 at 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Had an excruciating talk with T today about the issue of wishing he would hold me when I’m upset. He was reasonably good about it. He also said that there will be absolutely no touch between us ever. I get it but at the same time I feel a little like a leper.

I'm really sorry to read this. I know how you feel because I asked my former T for a hug many years ago and she said no in a really firm way. She said it's what she does with friends and family, not with me. I never felt so rejected and awful. I hope your T is at least open to discussing how you feel about not having touch. My former T became defensive after that even when I told her I knew she wouldn't hug/hold me, I just needed to be open about my feelings on the issue. I think it just stirred up so many feelings for her that she couldn't be that safe container for me to process those feelings. Your T owes you space to talk about how this has left you feeling. I hope he is secure enough in himself to do that.

chihirochild · Jan 18, 2020 at 09:59 AM

Thanks, y’all—I really appreciate the hugs and perspectives.

I feel disappointed and also weirdly relieved? Like I’m not going to have to perform a particular kind of illness to get him to show me compassion through touch? I dunno, I kind of felt like that with a previous therapist who intermittently offered hugs when she “felt moved to.”

The session itself was just grueling. Good news is that I’m seeing him twice a week now so there’s plenty of time and space to process it, as wrenching as this is.

Lonelyinmyheart · Jan 18, 2020 at 10:07 AM

You know where the boundary lies, it is firm and yes there is something reassuring in that.

healed84 · Jan 18, 2020 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Thanks, Healed, it helps to hear you've experienced something similar. This was the first session I've left for part of it, which is something P wanted us to work toward. So I'm hoping in future sessions, most of the time would be just her and D.

I think I also need to talk to her about what my role in sessions is supposed to be when I am there. I wonder if I'm interjecting too much, like if I'm mostly just supposed to sit there quietly and observe, unless P asks me questions. H said the couple times he took her, he didn't say much. What was your experience with that, did you say much?

@LonesomeTonight I apologize for not responding earlier. Expectation wise in my son’s sessions were always different. When I am invited it there is usually a reason. Sometimes my son was talking to his t about something and she thought it would be good to hear it from him and give me a chance to tan with him with her in the room. Sometimes it was because he wanted all of us to play a game together. However, in all instances it was always interacted when I was invited to. If I felt like I needed to say more to his t I would just schedule an appointment with her just by myself.

ElectricManatee · Jan 18, 2020 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Thanks, y’all—I really appreciate the hugs and perspectives.

I feel disappointed and also weirdly relieved? Like I’m not going to have to perform a particular kind of illness to get him to show me compassion through touch? I dunno, I kind of felt like that with a previous therapist who intermittently offered hugs when she “felt moved to.”

The session itself was just grueling. Good news is that I’m seeing him twice a week now so there’s plenty of time and space to process it, as wrenching as this is.

I don't think you're a leper, although I can understand why you might feel that way. Hearing such a clear statement of boundaries can be off-putting because that's usually not how social interactions are done on real life, so it always makes me a little huffy, even when I know that the boundary is perfectly logical. I was a little thrown when I found out that my therapist occasionally hugs clients (which eventually included me). Given the (hypothetical) choice between twice-weekly sessions and hugs, I would definitely take the twice-weekly sessions. I am all about the "therapeutic mind hold" over the therapist arms kind. Hugs are nice, but the therapeutic "hold" has done much more to rewire my brain.

atisketatasket · Jan 18, 2020 at 02:21 PM

I’m playing the game where I try to figure out what supposedly gluten free food I ate yesterday is making me sick today.

stopdog · Jan 18, 2020 at 03:22 PM

Sorry to hear that - gluten is (to me) hidden in some really odd things -but it is not good that it was labeled gluten free but wasn't.

Salmon77 · Jan 18, 2020 at 05:18 PM

Wait, did that second thread get shut down, too? It seemed somewhat useful. I suppose it must have blown up?

Polibeth · Jan 18, 2020 at 05:57 PM

I finally got the courage to tell husband that pdoc placed me on a leave of absence (LOA). He tends to freak out or get mad about these things but he is taking it well.

Blueberry21 · Jan 18, 2020 at 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Had an excruciating talk with T today about the issue of wishing he would hold me when I’m upset. He was reasonably good about it. He also said that there will be absolutely no touch between us ever. I get it but at the same time I feel a little like a leper.

Chihiro, I don’t blame you one bit for feeling the way you do. Good for you for having the conversation and expressing how you feel, but that must be difficult to process now.

Do bear in mind that if you’re in the US especially, the climate is so litigious that therapists have to SUPER careful about physical touch. And it’s far easier to set an across-the-board “no touch” policy than to try and assess which clients can “handle it,” and which can’t.

My T hugs me sometimes, but he is in the UK. I have wondered before if he would act differently if in the US. I also spent quite a while agonizing over whether he might be starting to push for a more extensive relationship. I decided that he is not, and imagine that he hugs other clients (he also hugged my dad once after a joint session, in a manly sort of way), but the whole experience led me to see why this issue has the potential to create confusion for clients.

Anyway, here’s a hug from me!

stopdog · Jan 18, 2020 at 06:16 PM

Therapists are really not sued all that much over here. Not nearly as often as they should be. The idea of litigious america is more in the minds of non-u.s. people than is really the case. Therapists do what they want and they will blame it on whatever takes the responsibility off of them.

Jan 18, 2020 at 06:18 PM

@@ is your packaging not labelled with warnings that the product was processed in a factory where gluten products are made. We have this and labelling for nuts and other allergies.

LonesomeTonight · Jan 18, 2020 at 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlessedCheeseMaker

@@ is your packaging not labelled with warnings that the product was processed in a factory where gluten products are made. We have this and labelling for nuts and other allergies.

I believe that warning is optional here (US). They have to list actual allergens that are in there, but it's up to the manufacturer to disclose that it was made on shared equipment and/or in a facility that also processes an allergen. (I've looked into this because my D is allergic to cashews and pistachios.)

atisketatasket · Jan 18, 2020 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlessedCheeseMaker

@@ is your packaging not labelled with warnings that the product was processed in a factory where gluten products are made. We have this and labelling for nuts and other allergies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I believe that warning is optional here (US). They have to list actual allergens that are in there, but it's up to the manufacturer to disclose that it was made on shared equipment and/or in a facility that also processes an allergen. (I've looked into this because my D is allergic to cashews and pistachios.)

Yeah, it’s what LT says, the eight major allergens have to be called out on packaging, but the “may have been processed in a facility that uses nuts etc.” is voluntary. You can only label a product gluten free if it meets a certain standard of so many parts of gluten per million.

Complicating the issue is that wheat is a major allergen but barley and rye are not and yet they also have gluten proteins.

I have an app that will scan the bar code of a product and tell me if it is gluten free or has no gluten-containing ingredients. Generally I’m willing to take the risk if the ingredients are OK as gluten won’t kill me short-term, just long-term.

stopdog · Jan 18, 2020 at 07:28 PM

I did not know about the app. A family member is coming to visit me this spring who has a gluten sensitivity (I don't think full blown allergy but will have to check). I am going to try not to poison them.

atisketatasket · Jan 18, 2020 at 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

I did not know about the app. A family member is coming to visit me this spring who has a gluten sensitivity (I don't think full blown allergy but will have to check). I am going to try not to poison them.

The Gluten Free Scanner, full version is $3.99 on iOS but worth it.

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chihirochild Magnate Member Since Feb 2017 Location: North America Posts: 2,361 7 4,865 hugs given	Jan 18, 2020 at 01:50 AM #621 Had an excruciating talk with T today about the issue of wishing he would hold me when I’m upset. He was reasonably good about it. He also said that there will be absolutely no touch between us ever. I get it but at the same time I feel a little like a leper.

Lonelyinmyheart Poohbah Member Since Jun 2019 Location: Earth Posts: 1,093 4 1,732 hugs given	Jan 18, 2020 at 10:07 AM #627 You know where the boundary lies, it is firm and yes there is something reassuring in that.

atisketatasket Child of a lesser god Member Since Jun 2015 Location: Tartarus Posts: 19,188 (SuperPoster!) 8 12.4k hugs given	Jan 18, 2020 at 02:21 PM #630 I’m playing the game where I try to figure out what supposedly gluten free food I ate yesterday is making me sick today.

Salmon77 Poohbah Member Since Mar 2014 Location: PNW Posts: 1,394 10 106 hugs given	Jan 18, 2020 at 05:18 PM #632 Wait, did that second thread get shut down, too? It seemed somewhat useful. I suppose it must have blown up?

Polibeth Poohbah Member Since Jun 2014 Location: Earth Posts: 1,193 10 2,235 hugs given	Jan 18, 2020 at 05:57 PM #633 I finally got the courage to tell husband that pdoc placed me on a leave of absence (LOA). He tends to freak out or get mad about these things but he is taking it well.

Anonymous42961 Guest Posts: n/a	Jan 18, 2020 at 06:18 PM #636 @@ is your packaging not labelled with warnings that the product was processed in a factory where gluten products are made. We have this and labelling for nuts and other allergies.