Psychedelics-assisted therapy

i have not tried shrooms yet, but definitely would like to one day. currently, i like doing the mdma because i understand it's 'gentler' for dealing with developmental trauma. there are a couple of psychedelic shroom species that grow here in my country during the wetter autumn and winter months, and if you know were to find them and what they look like, they are not too difficult to find. they actually grow in many of the places where hubby and i like to walk the dog and this past winter we picked some for the first time. there is a bit of a competition though, because some of the locals also know about the good growing spots

forgot that i wanted to share this podcast the other day: #65 - Rick Doblin, Ph.D.: MDMA — the creation, scheduling, toxicity, therapeutic use, and changing public opinion of what is possibly the single most important synthetic molecule ever created by our species - Peter Attia

it's an interview from 2019 with Rick Doblin where he goes into great detail talking about the history of mdma and other psychedelics, the MAPS study and research, and the therapeutic potential of mdma and psychedelic assisted therapy. it's a bit long, but i absolutely enjoyed listening to it and found it fascinating and incredibly informative.

In my teens I did mesculine, LSD, and mushrooms. Can not imagine they would help anyone with a mental health issue. I can see them causing MORE of an issue.

I think that the risks outweigh the potential benefits. The risk of psychosis is very high and if it lasts for months that could do irreversible damage to the brain. Imagine a bad trip lasting months? That would be torture.

I can’t imagine any therapists encouraging their clients’ use of psychedelics or any other unapproved drugs. In session or out of session. Wouldn’t they risk their job by doing that? Plus drug use is known to cause problems for people with MI. I am not knocking drug users. I am just not grasping how and why therapists would condone or encourage such thing. It’s trouble waiting to happen

i suspect many Ts who may be understanding to and in support of psychedelics won't openly discuss or encourage the use of psychedelics to their clients, unless the client brings the topic up first or unless they advertise specifically as an integration therapist. MAPS does provide a list of integration therapist on their site:
Psychedelic Integration List - MAPS

there are some very positive research results currently being released in regards to the use of psychedelic/mdma assisted therapy for helping with PTSD and depression and there are many therapist who believe in, and have witnessed, the powerful potential of these healing substances (my ex-T is one of them and he currently is seeking training and approval to do this kind of therapy in my country). many therapist who may be interested in working with the healing potential of psychedelics, but want to keep their noses clean, will offer to help with integration sessions (the client does the psychedelics in their own setting and meets with the T for regular sessions afterwards to help process and integrate the experience). the therapists who are administering any drugs are either involved in clinical studies with clients (which have been approved) or there are some underground Ts willing to help. it's those underground Ts who provide access to illicit drugs who will carry the greatest risk to getting into trouble when it comes to doing this kind of therapy. but for whatever reason, some chose to do this and take that risk.

i personally feel that the main area where this may become, as you said, 'trouble waiting to happen' will be after mdma/psychedelic assisted therapy is approved by the FDA and available in clinics for clients. i don't fear that the influx in the use of this medicine for those who are suffering will be the issue, i fear it will be the influx of psychologists wanting to become trained in the 'latest and greatest' to be part of the fashionable trend of the newest therapeutic modality, and that they won't fully achieve the proper competency needed too do this kind of delicate work. and similar to normal psychotherapy, if these therapist don't have their s*#t together, their issues sorted, etc, then i fear there is even a greater potential to client harm due to the increase in vulnerability that these substances will cause.

My therapist is on this MAPS list, though I didn't know that for a long time. He currently offers ketamine treatments in a collective with doctors other therapists etc, but I am in his private practice.

I did not do any drugs ( except for drinking ) growing up, but I am ready to try MDMA therapy when it becomes available. My therapist shared that for people with childhood trauma , the biology of safety might not ever have been there as a reference point, a set point. What is it like to feel safe? The body, the biology, does not know. He feels MDMA can offer that first experience , and that it can be profoundly teaching. He has worked with MAPS since the ground floor.

He is my second T, and my first one was four years of immense and intense competing realities, battles of wits, and definitely not establishing safety. This T does not have the same charismatic , "brilliant" presence / cult of personality , but is more gentle, genuine and collaborative. I hope I qualify , and can try MDMA.

i was pretty straight laced growing up and i never did any drugs either, except alcohol. it wasn't until i was in my mid 40s when i first dared to try marijuana during an overseas trip to the States, not long after Colorado legalised it for recreational use. i think after that experience, it definitely had an effect on changing my perspective in regards to how i felt about these type of substances.

your therapist is correct in what he is saying and for me, the mdma has helped immensely in helping my mind come to feel safe within my body after the traumas. i will never forget my first time using it and how completely relaxed, 'loose', warm, free and safe that my entire body was feeling at times...it was absolutely amazing to finally be free of the tight trauma bonds that have held my body prisoner for practically most of my life. i was none the wiser to ever knowing any different. i find it difficult to even find the proper words to fully describe the experience.

i'm really happy for you, that you have been able to find a new T who seems to meet your needs better than your prior one. i recall you sharing some of the struggles of your ex-T and i'm glad you have been able to more forward from that experience. it sound quite promising for your progress that your current T is affiliated and familiar with MAPS and psychedelic assisted therapy. keeping my fingers crossed for you that you will qualify for the treatment as soon as it is approved

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but for anyone who has tried psychedelic's, have you noticed any improvement in depression?

My psychiatrist yesterday was discussing options with me yesterday for my severe, treatment resistant depression and mentioned that there may be a possibility that I could get on a clinical trial for psilocybin. The early clinical trial results look quite promising but I just wondered if anyone has any personal experience...

I’ve done a course of ketamine infusions follower by a number of months of maintenance troches (lozenges) at home for PTSD as well as a few mdma sessions (illegal, solo). The results have been nothing short of life changing.

The infusions really wound down my symptoms and made it possible for me to do the work in therapy ever since. I’m a work in progress, but it’s been like a miracle. Hard work. But miraculous.

I would think that ECT would be a better choice for treatment resistance depression? Along with EMDR for trauma? Class A Drug's cause irreversible damage to some people. Even when a person is desperate and at the end of their tether are mind altering drugs really worth the risk?

yes, the clinical trials they are doing on psilocybin do look promising and it's exciting to see that Oregon voters have recently passed Measure 109 for a statewide psilocybin assisted therapy program.

if you can't get into a psilocybin trial, has your PDOC mention anything about trying ketamine?

I have looked into ECT before and TBH I really don't think it is a safer option. The risk for cognitive side effects is huge, the remission rate is only about 30% and even then the relapse rate is 50% (and that is with maintenance ECT and therapy which it is highly unlikely I would get on the NHS).

I was very wary about psilocybin as I know the harm that hallucinogenic drugs can do when used recreationally, but the science behind it is compelling and the early data are impressive.

The pdoc I saw last week also mentioned esketamine, and told me to look into it, which I did and it doesn't seem to be available in my country. Confirmed this with my usual pdoc today - although it is licensed in the UK it is not considered cost-effective and so is not available through the NHS at the moment

that's unfortunate and sounds frustrating. sorry to hear that.

i agree. and as there are more studies being conducted about the potential health benefits of these psychedelics, this will lead to increased knowledge to understanding both the positive and negative effects of these medicines. which in turn can be helpful in regards to availability and regulation. i reckon there would be fewer people causing harm to themselves if psychedelics were regulated and legally available under the care of health professional so people didn't have to get to that point of desperation thinking that their final glimmer of hope for relief means they have to rely on dubious and illegal means to obtain it.

yes contact your med provider!

There’s a huge difference between recreational use and what people mean when they talk about psychedelics assisted psychotherapy.

It is a thing and it is legal in the US, UK and other countries using ketamine, and (where legalized) psilocybin and cannabis. Clinical trials are ongoing in many parts of the world especially using MDMA and LSD. The substances in use in the mainstream by reputable providers are not technically psychedelics (primarily ketamine), but used for their ability to induce almost/similar to psychedelic experiences .

It’s not just a matter of adding a drug to an existing therapy session - therapists need to be specially trained and there are many training providers springing up. The parameters of sessions can be quite different in terms of time and format.

People do use psychedelics (illegally) for self-therapy, and again, it’s a very different experience and process than using them for fun. The effect people are looking for, whether with a therapist or solo, is not the ‘high’ but the lowering of defences, access to dissociated material and the ability to think and feel about things that are unbearable when sober. Also, their empathogenic qualities, which help with building self compassion. Integration after solo sessions is something a lot of therapists are already comfortable doing.

There is tons of evidence already around the effectiveness of ketamine as a treatment for depression, and MDMA is very close to getting over the line. At a one year follow up of the MAPs MDMA trial, 67% of participants with PTSD were symptom free. That research is now in the last stage before FDA approval and will likely be fully approved sometime in 2022. FDA has fast tracked the last stage due to COVID and already granted extended compassionate access, recognizing the great need for new treatments for intractable mental health problems.

For a really rational perspective on this, Prof David Nutt’s Drug Science Podcast is brilliant.

Anyway....just wanted to add some context...

i recently had a listen to this podcast of an interview with a psychotherapist named Saj Razvi, who is a director at PSI (Psychedelic Somatic Institute) where they train other therapists in a treatment modality utilising psychedelics (psilocybin, MDMA, ketamine, or cannabis) along with somatic experiencing techniques, called Psychedelic Somatic Interactional Psychotherapy (PSIP). he also was involved in the MAPS phase 2 trials.

it's an interesting interview especially in regards to his explanation of trauma and how it manifests and effects the body physically and how psychedlic assisted therapy along with somatic experiencing can help calm the trauma fear responses.

Podcast | The Journal of Psychedelic Psychiatry

I am going to buy ketamine powder and micro-dosing psilocybin pills online. Apparently you can buy these on line. Not cheap. 2g of the Ketamine is $170 and so is the bottle of psilocybin pills. I just do not know how to use the ketamine powder and I have never done psilocybin before. I am desperate for some kind of relief.

Do you have any medical supervision or advice? I have heard that ketamine can help depression but it seems like a good idea to know how to use it, or at least talk to someone who does, before you try it.

Personally I have done microdoses of psilocybin a couple times (recreationally) and it was very mild (as it's supposed to be), but even so it might be good to make sure someone else is around to help just in case you have a bad reaction.

i would recommend have a look through some of the psychedelic therapy related subs on Reddit, including r/ketaminetherapy and r/microdosing as a place to start.

also, just out of interest, i recently learned about an online clinic called MindBloom who is providing ketamine assisted therapy from the 'comfort of your home'. the catch is that you have to reside in one of these states to be able to access the treatment:
New York
New Jersey
Pennsylvania
Florida
Nevada
California
Virginia
Texas
Arizona
Colorado
Michigan
Utah

Mindbloom | Psychedelic Medicine is Here

so not sure if that may be an option or not for you to consider??