What to talk about with T on Saturday?

It's amazing how much a person can hurt another person by taking away their care.

Remember though: She didn't take away her care. She is simply saying she does not think it wise to start back into therapy again together. I doubt this is a matter of her not caring; if that was the case, she could have simply not replied at all.

I think you are at least understanding that the negative motives you are attaching to her decision are probably more your own self-talk than they are her actual reasoning.

I'm sorry this is so painful for you, but perhaps this level of intensity is indicative that maybe a different therapist altogether might be a better plan if you do not feel like it is working with your current therapist.

I've switched therapists a few times over the years, and fresh eyes and approaches honestly probably did me much more good than if I had gone back to an old therapist.

Be gentle with yourself. This is a choice she has made based on how she perceives her own ability to serve, or not serve, you best.

Thanks ArtleyWilkins. I do understand that my thinking that it's all my fault that she doesn't want me back is my own mind's imaginings and not necessarily her reasoning. It doesn't make it any easier though because without clarification I just come up with more harsh reasons towards myself.


She was the only person I've ever attached to. I think this is why it is so intense.


I've contacted another T. Waiting for them to get back to me. I don't know if they will or won't. I called the office and left a message and emailed him. Current T is nice but I don't think she can help with this.

I'm struggling to be gentle with myself. The desire to go back to after all this time is overwhelming. Maybe I will email Pastor T and see if he will get me in for an emergency appointment just to discuss this. IDK. I need something to help because I can't live with the pain.

Hugs, Kit. I suggest contacting Pastor T. The chance that a new T will be able to get you in soon is less good than someone you've been working with, particularly right now (as I've heard from my T and read elsewhere that T's are very busy from the pandemic). I mean, hopefully the new T can get you in, but Pastor T doesn't charge you, right? So would be no loss in seeing him either way.


And I understand why you see it as her taking away your care. It felt much like that when ex-MC said I had to contact him less and refused to talk to me (even on the phone, which we'd done many times before) without H also being on the call. For a long time, I wanted to try to meet with him solo, in person, just to talk things through, but I imagine he'd have said no. The circumstances of the ending with your T were very different, but just saying that I understand.


Hm, do you think there's any chance she'd be willing to meet with both you and your current T at the same time, to discuss her decision? Ex-MC had considered possibly doing that with me and current T. But then I changed my mind about it before we actually got to the place of scheduling it.

Got an appointment with another therapist, Dr. K, at 2 PM on the 26th. It's a little ways away but hopefully he can help me.

I completely understand that.

This is where all of the CBT ended up being vital to my mental health. I know many people don't like it, and it isn't like it was the only technique my therapists used, but learning the skills to use that rational part of my mind when my emotions were telling me all sorts of lies (DBT would call it the wise mind I think), has helped me regain control when I felt most out of control. That was really important to help me cope without making really poor choices.

I'm glad to read you have a session with a different therapist. I hope it works well for you. Be proud of yourself for taking healthy action. That's good work.

Oh, good to hear you have an appt with another T. I hope they can give you the support you need.

I also hope your old T realises the importance of a 1-1 session with you. I think she owes you that. But I am glad you are going the 'self-care' route.

What has been gnawing at me is my last phone conversation with former T. When we were ending due to her MS. She said, it is the end for now. She said, I don't think it is goodbye.


Totally led me to believe that the possibility remained that we might work together again sometime. Of course things change. People change. Circumstances change. I wish therapists wouldn't say things they don't intend to do. Maybe she intended it at the time. I don't know.

It's like current T. She says she will never leave me. How can she say that? Everyone leaves sometime. She says she can't imagine not working. She is probably 70. That's true but you never know what your health is going to do or something. Like, don't promise. Because you likely can't keep it.


Ugh. Frustrated today. At least I have numbed out. I am not feeling so much pain. I just got to the point where the pain was so intense that my numbing coping mechanism took over. Now I'm numb and don't feel anything. Good. I hope I stay that way.

I am glad you are seeing another one to try out.

Hey SK,

It's not your fault. I attached tons to Ex T, didn't think I'd find another I could attach too but I did. It was the right decision for me to stick with current T, Ex T couldn't do the trauma and attachment work I needed. I still miss Ex T.

I'm glad you reached out to other therapists. I hope you'll find 1 who is a good fit, has the availability you need, and who knows how to help you build when you're not in crisis. The work done when not in crisis is important but I feel not many Ts where I live know how to help clients in that area. My T believes that crisises or no crisis, it's valuable work and after a lot of sessions, I rarely have crisis yet there is still plenty of work to be done.

I'm offering you hugs and care.

I also don't like people (and Ts should know better) who make such empty promises of 'always being there' and 'never leaving' etc.

It is so fake.

Truth is, everybody leaves one way or another... And there are no guarantees in life.

This is actually something that came up with my T last session, not specific to therapy, but that all relationships eventually end, even if it's due to death. That was more tied to my fears of abandonment/messing up relationships, where more securely attached people aren't thinking of it all the time. But I think it definitely applies to T's making promises they don't know they can keep.

My T is very careful in choosing his words around things like that. He's said, for example, "I have no intention of abandoning you." But he's said he doesn't know what could happen, that it could be that they need to move to help out with an elderly in-law or that he might decide to take his career in a different direction, besides the possibilities of death or serious illness. He said he didn't anticipate any of those happening in the near future, but of course no way of knowing.

The fact that ex-MC made promises to me that he didn't keep (like saying I was always welcome to come for another individual session, after our second one or that he wouldn't reject me) makes me more receptive to my T's way of phrasing things. Because he isn't making promises that he doesn't know he can keep.

Kit, with your former T, I wonder if she thought she might be back at work much more quickly than she was, and that could have potentially changed her view on working with you again? Like she knows how hard it was on you, and likely has no idea how long she'll stay healthy enough to work (as she has a chronic illness), so she doesn't want to start up with you than potentially have to end abruptly again? Though if that's the case, it would be better if she just said that...

Oh, I hear you LT.

I have the same issue. Likewise, my T is very careful in not making such always/never statements to me. But, unlike yours, mine goes to the other extreme. I think pigs could fly before T says anything 'feeling-wise'. :

I have told current T a few times I fear losing her (most recently after her accident). She is, also, very careful when choosing her words. She tells me that given my past those fears are understandable. She tells me she has no plans to go anywhere any time soon. Sh can't predict the future but she loves what she does, she enjoys working with me, etc. She also adds that she plans to live a long time.

Yes! I used to love when others would promise this until I realized that no one really can. My last therapist made lots of promises like this and ended up going back on all of them and disappearing and causing me trauma in the process. My new T doesn't make any promises and just says its not her intention to abandon me. Like LT said, I respect people more if they don't make such promises but therapists should know better than anyone not to do it. Yet a lot of them on this forum seem to make these promises and don't realize how they are hurting people.

I wonder if it is an attempt to build trust but is misguided? I am not saying it is right in any way. Nor do I want a T whoe tells me they will always be there. Well honestly, yes I do for the short term comfort but also know it would create unrealistic expectations. Having lost a T in such a traumatic way, I know the reality of them even unintentionally abandoning me.

Yes I think perhaps it might be a misguided attempt at trust that they don't realize actually does the opposite when they can't keep the "promise". I have found I trust my new therapist more because she doesn't make these promises than my exT who did make the promise.

That's the thing though, the reassurance or promise is short term comfort. When my exT promised she would always be there, it did create a lot of unrealistic expectations that added to how unhealthy the relationship was. Unfortunately I had to learn all of this the hard way but at least I know now not to make the same mistakes with my current therapist.

For those of you following along, former T wrote me back after I wrote her two extremely painful emails describing the pain I was in over her decision, even though I didn't necessarily disagree with her decision, I just didn't like it.


Her email back was truly lovely. Old form back. She acknowledged my pain several times. She said she had anticipated her decision not to work with me to be difficult for me but that she didn't anticipate it to land in abandonment or rejection for me. From what she said, it is more about her and her health and her age and her stamina more than anything else. She did think about me in her decision but these other things are at play and she said she isn't the same therapist she was with me and didn't think it was wise to create another therapy relationship with me. She said she was sorry for my pain. That she deeply values the time we had together and so much more. Her email back to me was a good three quarters of a page long. She put a lot of thought and careful crafting of her words to make them less painful to me and more easily accepted by me. She knows me well.


She said that she is aware of my deep connection to her and that helps. She acknowledged my med combo working well for me right now and that I've grown a lot . She said due to changes in her stamina she would not have been able to bring me to where I am now.


She sounded really honest in her email to me. And it is very precious to me. I can feel her care for me dripping off the page. (I printed it out so I can have it handy for the next however long I feel ripped apart.)


I am more numb to the pain now. I know it will reopen once the numbness wears off. But her care for me in the email was evident and all the stuff that I feared was not true. So it's not so much that she doesn't want to work with me, it's more about her health and her stamina and what she is capable of doing as a therapist. It's good that she didn't take me back and then be unable to function as I need her to, because that would have been very painful as well. She's a beautiful human being and a great therapist and I will always love her and be loyal to her.


She didn't say anything about me trying a different T. She acknowledged she made some assumptions in her previous email to me and spelled out where she was making assumptions in this email. All the reasons why I love her are evident in her email to me.


I didn't really lose anything as I wasn't working with her for the past couple of years (almost 3) and I'm not working with her now. It was just hope dashed. And that can be extremely painful. I'm thinking about it in a much more intellectual and rational way now and I love her for that. I really cherish the time we had together and even though it was cut short by her MS, it still means the world to me. I still have a couple of her voicemails so I can hear her voice. And I do have oodles of emails from her if I ever wish to go back and read them.


Thank you everyone for your kindness and care for me during this time. And thank you for encouraging me to try another T. I have no idea if the T I am going to try will work out but if anything I can consult with him on whether I should stay with current T or not.


HUGS to anyone who wants them, Kit

I'm glad it was pretty much what seemed like it might be. She clearly is trying to make the best decision for your own well-being. I'm glad she clarified things for you.

Thank you ArtleyWilkins.

I am so glad she wrote you back. I see a lot of care in her response looking out for you in her decision. I hope that is something you can hold onto when it feels painful. I am sorry this happened. Sometimes things don't work out because we might not grow in the same way. This new therapist might be able to help you in ways this old T can't and get you to where you want/need to be. An old door closing is a also a new door opening. I had a rough time ending with a therapist who meant so much but then I was able to work with a new therapist who helped me to grow in ways I never did before and my old therapist def could not have gotten me to this place I am in now. When I miss my old T it helps me to think of that. Gentle hugs to you if wanted.

Glad she wrote you back and put such care in her words. Hugs if you need some after the numbness wears off, SK.

I am so glad you felt her care. It (from your description of your interactions with her) did seem unlike her and the only 'reason' I could see was a limitation on her part, rather than a lack of caring for you (or it being your fault for being too needy etc.).

I am sorry you are still not able to work with her though. I can only imagine the pain and disappointment. It is a tough decision she had to make and it seems she made it in *both* of your interests.

Will you still be able to email her, as you had been doing? To keep the connection with her?

Yes, I can still email or text her now and again. She doesn't always reply but sometimes she does. Sometimes I tell her specifically there's no need to reply to this. If I would straight out ask her to, she probably would. I usually leave it up to her though whether or not she wants to reply. I mean, I haven't been a paying client in going on three years now. But due to the longevity of our work together (10 years) and the intensity, she's always been open to hearing how things are going for me. I tend to focus on the positives with her for the most part because I don't want her to feel like I'm trying to get free therapy. But once last December I was super triggered and really close to doing something dumb and I texted her and I said I knew she would understand and she responded and said she did understand. To hang in there. To not do the stupid thing and to wait it out and I would feel better, which is of course what happened. But yeah, I'm really thankful that she's open to hearing from me. I usually update her about 6 times a year and then I'll text her like "Merry Christmas" "Happy Easter" stuff like that. So I really haven't lost anything that I've had these past few years. It was just the hope dashed. But her email response was lovely and I will hold it in my heart for a long time.