Why wasn’t it called r____e ?

I'm not a radical or liberal feminist. I don't adhere to any one ideology on anything. I'm too quick to see the merit in conflicting viewpoints, I suppose.

Precaryous, sorry for distracting from the conversation. I'm afraid my aversion to the idea that someone/something would be the authority on me or my experiences rather than my own perspective caused me to be inconsiderate.

Lots of people who are raped believe it's their fault regardless. I was raped when I was 6 yet my mind still finds a way to muddy the waters. I know logically it's ridiculous to think it was my fault, yet here we are. Just saying in case you're subconsciously thinking the related sentiment that if you were raped, you wouldn't be blaming yourself and therefore it wasn't rape. The guilt or self blame or whatever isn't an accurate gauge of reality.

ETA - What I'm getting at is that you can even define a rape as rape yet your mind will come up with ways that you "made" someone rape you, which is not a thing.

This is a gentle reminder asking all to please stay on topic without generalizing or getting personal in replies. Thanks everyone.

I’m sorry you experienced that. I can’t imagine!

Hadn’t thought of the point you made-that way.
You’re right, of course.
I’m giving all of this a lot of thought

Side note...I’m surprised the legal definition of rape is so narrow.
That one aspect of the intimacy I talked about...
I said ‘no.’ I remember that clearly.
He made me do it anyway....using force and fear.
Shocking that’s not legally rape just bc the body parts have different names.

The therapist I see often talks about how predators manipulate you to make you see things in a way that suits them. The way someone acts towards you can be confusing. For example, if a perpetrator is kind to you or caring at times, it's disconcerting when they violate you. Sort of makes you doubt your own reality. We like to categorize people as good or bad. When someone we think of as good does something really bad, I think that it's often easier to start seeing ourselves as the bad one rather than placing the blame where it belongs. Unfortunately that coping mechanism is not helpful in the long run, but it's really hard to shake.

I know this is a common thing people say, it feels almost trite, but would you blame someone else who went through what you went through? Would you think they were in the wrong, or would you think there was something very wrong with that therapist that he behaved so appallingly? Because I think there's something wrong with him and that has nothing to do with you - you did not cause him to be a **** person. If it hadn't been you, I'm sure it would have been someone else - and that's not to dismiss how personal it feels to have someone hurt you like that. I'm just saying that he did it because of his own **** not because you did something wrong. There's nothing you could have done to justify him forcing himself on you.

Prec -what happened to you was awful. The legal def of rape changes depending on where you are located -which is not a good thing. It does not mean what happened to you wasn't rape - I would suggest not letting other therapists or technical definitions define your experience. When I mentioned definition before - I was offering my thoughts on why therapists in general might have a hurdle with the word. Perhaps getting caught up in the definition is not a useful thing. What he did to you was horrible and you are not to blame.

———-
I’m pretty clear that I don’t blame myself for the part he forced. (I think?) (I never knew what to call it..) So many other things happened, tho, ...my feelings of responsibility and stupidity are muddy about several of those. I recognize he deliberately tried to shift the blame on me. “You promised me you could handle this. Why aren’t you handling this!?” “It’s unfair for you to criticize me..”
But, i put myself there..I agreed to some things that turned out disastrous for me.
I didn’t question his actions or seek another opinion until it was too late. I was scared to talk to anyone about it. Who would I ask...another therapist? Then, I was afraid of what might happen...would the matter be taken out of my hands...would it be made public?..

Precaryous, my last abuse was when I was an older teenager. Part of my difficulty in getting past that abuse was that feeling that because I was older, I should have done things differently. I made the choice to live in my abuser's home (for other reasons), but again, I played that game with myself that I perhaps put myself in that situation willingly. I had a couple of teachers at the time who recognized something wasn't right during that time and asked me pretty directly if something was wrong, but I remained silent. Maybe if I had spoken up . . . . A few years later, my abuser actually said to my therapist, "Well, there was a baseball bat by the door the whole time . . ." and my therapist jumped all over him for trying to make me responsible for controlling his abusive behavior.

I think I somewhat understand those conflicting messages you say to yourself. It takes a long time to stop internally debating all the "what ifs" with yourself. Having that therapist very unambiguously refuse to accept excuses from my abuser was helpful, but even that wasn't enough to get ME to stop accepting any justifications in my own head. I did get there, but it took a long time. I guess I just want you to know someone sort of understands what is going through your mind about this.

I wish they had been able to prosecute him...or if I could have seen my lawyer demolish him in deposition or in court.
That would have helped a lot, I think.
Had I won the civil case, that would have been some validation. I would have gotten my money back. I would have specific validation that what he did was wrong. It would have helped me. I think it would have helped how my family views me..

Winning would have been validation.

But he was never prosecuted..even though I knew identifying information about his genitalia.
And he was not criminally prosecuted for any of the seven of us.
I have no idea why. Even the detective said they found corroborating evidence against him in the 19yo’s case.

He didn’t have malpractice insurance and he filed bankruptcy.
There was no money to win.
Even though he stole money from ME.
There was a tiny amount I received because he had been briefly employed by another doctor.
But it was awarded with the caveat of not admitting guilt of anything.
And I found out EVERYONE had a lien against any settlement...lawyers (more than two), Medicare, Medi-cal, EVERYONE.
Everyone was entitled to take a part of that little piece, except for me.
It feels like I lost it all.

First of all, I am so sorry he did that to you and for everything that happened after you reported it.

Please understand that you are definitely not at fault. He is an EFFEN predator that took advantage of your soul. It is a rape. HANDS DOWN. He should be the only one to feel guilty. He broke all the rules of his profession by raping you and exploiting you.

He should have sexual predator stamped on to his forehead for what he did to you. Then he can be ostracized and obliterated by society.

Again, he should be feeling guilty not you. It was a rape.

What would help clear up your confusion? I have some questions that confuse me too:

1. Confusing your situation and the 19 yr old's. It's hard for me to think of one without the other, since its the same guy. Its like on law and order, where they say do or dont let in evidence from another case because it would prejudice the jury.

2. Is this a recurring discussion with your family? If so, can you tell them you only want SUPPORT from now on about it? The last few years i was even talking to my mother, i started telling her, "Youre hurting my self-esteem!" This was when Oprah started talking about kids' self-esteem, so my mother knew the word (english not her first language). She would reply, shaking her fist at me, "yeah i will give you some-ah steam!" So even though we were making a "joke" about it, i still let her know i didnt like it and that i wanted her to stop.

3. My family thinks im the stupid one in the family too, but im the only one who got into Mensa, and in high school PBK. So maybe we are savants and maybe they should shut up. If they are so smart, why didnt they get us the help we needed?

Precaryous can we just agree that you were in an extremely difficult situation, and you did the best you could with what was available to you at the time?

If you’d known then what you know now, it would have been different.
If you’d had superpowers like Wonder Woman, it would have been different.
If the people closest to you had formed a protective circle around you and said “OMG this is in no way your fault, this man is the scum of the earth and it is our dearest ambition to see him locked in a dungeon until the End Of Days” it would have been different.

But you didn’t have those things. And it wasn’t your fault that you didn’t have them. Sexual abusers groom their victims. That means that often for some part of the abuse cycle you feel loved, valued and special. You are given something you crave. It seems like kindness. Who doesn’t want kindness?

By the time you realize that something bad is going on, you are already in quite deep. Or maybe it’s not until many years later. Regardless, it’s not your fault.

If you think that you can’t call it rape because it was somehow your fault, well you’re far from alone in having that experience.

I think it wasn’t your fault. At all. Even if some part of you loved the attention, even if you had orgasms sometimes, even if you loved him until you didn’t. It wasn’t your fault.

Thank you.
I’m so sorry you were hurt.
I don’t know what would help. I know I’m in a better place than I was twenty years ago. It felt like I was in a very slooow car crash...but I didn’t realize I was being hurt at the time...partly, because I didn’t know all of it..or that his intentions were bad.
Maybe it was like being molested as a kid...but not knowing you were being hurt at the time...it didn’t feel bad so you don’t tell anyone...then you find out how wrong it all was when you are older? Maybe not. All I know is that gradual realization that I was harmed...was/is confusing and surreal.

No, my family and I dont talk about it much. We talked about it some while the law suits were in progress....I tried to explain the best I could. At the time my mother admonished me, “Well! I hope you’ve learned your lesson!” I tried to explain it to my brother and he was so upset about how naive I was...and about the money...he left the table in a hurry. I felt like such an idiot. I had a session with with PrevT, me and my mom one time..I know she tried to explain it. It came up in conversation
with my daughter about two years ago and she was so mad...she was a teen at the time this happened and she said she was angry because she felt I chose him over her. Now that she’s an adult, I was able to describe, better, what happened. I think she’s in a better place with it. But she doesn’t want to talk about it.

That’s another harm this sort of issue creates..he didn’t just hurt me. He hurt my mother, my daughter, my family. They are secondary victims. I think of his family- his wife and children- as secondary victims, too.

Yes, in my family I am treated like I’m the stupid one.
But maybe we *are* savants and they should just shut up.

Thank you for all of this.

Just to add- Yes, he was such an ‘ahole! It really sucks what happened to the 19yo.. for all the reasons I’ve said, plus, she found the courage to leave her husband, baby daughter (bc AbusivePDoc said, don’t bring any kids!),, so she left her to get away from domestic violence..PLUS, she had a “boyfriend,” too. She left them all bc she believed Abusive PDoc would help her. She had a lot of issues..and .so young. Never knew her but I think about her. Hope she’s doing well.

Sometimes I’m tempted to go to that hometown FB page and just ask, “Hey, who remembers ______ ______, M.D.......and just see if anyone has anything to say about him.

I’m also tempted to redact the ‘Findings of Fact’ from the medical board decision that relates the details of three of our cases and also protects our identities.
But I probably won’t do that.

This sounds absolutely horrible. I’m so sorry this happened to you. If anyone tries to convince you it’s not rape even though they are intentionally trying to exploit you, do know that it IS rape no matter what and they are manipulating you into thinking otherwise.

I hope you’ll recover from all this.

This thread looks to be three years old !