What if you don't agree?

Good job today!

Kudos! Sending care and encouragement.

This is such a struggle for you. I'm sorry.

Dropping by to say... a simple search produced research articles. Prevalence is a lot higher than you think. It isn't that 'common', but neither is it rare. Let's say 3-5% of people have experience with something. In a country with a population of 335 million people, that equates to around 16 MILLION who have experienced the same thing.
That's a lot of folks.
In certain populations one study found that up to 50% of folks had experienced this. Fifty percent!!!

Thank you, Amyjay.

I don't usually do any searches because I don't want to read personal stories and be triggered. That's what happened tonight. I was looking up bible verses for L, and I decided to look up atonement. I found personal stories that affected me. I knew better to not look it up.

I understand in certain populations it's more common, however, I'm not in or from such populations. I've also read a long time ago, that it's more accepted in certain parts of Europe.

L says it's probably because of neglect and not being taught certain things like most children are taught.

Either way, I live with a lot of shame. It affects me to this day. I'm worried it is a core part of me.

This last session came about because my niece going through CSA triggered my SH thought. I feel that I deserve whatever punishment my niece's father deserves.

I'm sorry you feel that way about yourself.

Whatever bad thing you did as a child is not that relevant to who you are as an adult. Kids do crazy things. Yet they grow into decent adults.

Do you feel that you are still that child in a way? Like you never fully grew up? It makes me wonder why as an adult you devote so much energy to something from your childhood unless you feel that you might still be somewhat a child? I don’t know if I make any sense. Just trying to understand

I don’t particularly devote much time thinking about my childhood (which was far from fairy tale) but I know people who do. I have a friend in her 60s who spends lots of time thinking and talking about her childhood. She herself feels it’s because it’s an escape from everyday life, continue living in the past. She often asks me detailed questions about my childhood but I either don’t recall or just don’t care (maybe another extreme of me not remembering things)

Just some thoughts. I might be wrong of course but I thought whatever you did you did as a kid that’s not who you are now so no need to be mad at your “adult” self for what you did as a “kid”. You aren’t a kid anymore

Hmmm. Yes, I often feel like a child stuck in an adult body with adult responsibilities. But that's not why this bothers me. While it happened long ago, it did also happen in my adult years. And the thoughts are still in my mind. I don't feel comfortable saying anymore, but certain parts still have an effect on me to this day.

I am so sorry. I too have a awful secret from my childhood and still deal with with temptation of it as an adult. If you want to pm me please feel free to. I am learning to accept that I am not perfect and struggle with some yucky things because of my upbringing. I ask for forgiveness daily. Only two people know my secret sin which is also pretty rare and extremely embarrassing. They don’t think I am bad. I still do though. Feel free to pm me, hugs!

It sounds like what you're struggling with is moral injuries.

And when raised in abusive, neglectful, and dysfunctional families, it's easy for children to learn from deviant parents or other deviant adults, thus mimicking the deviant acts. It doesn't make the children "bad." It makes the abusers bad for doing what they did to harm children, and then to teach them that those bad, icky things were okay.

When other siblings are in the picture, it's common for siblings in abusive families who were harmed by an adult and/or a parent to then abuse their siblings. It's all part of the traumatic upbringing. While some siblings were more parentified and protective than others, other siblings learned to harm. Traumatic childhoods harm children's development, including their ability to learn right from wrong, make good decisions, work through painful emotions, and otherwise.

Many survivors may not post what you did here, but they nonetheless have held similar experiences. You're not alone in your struggles with moral injuries.

If you look up "moral injury" online, you can possibly find some resources, in addition to resources for adult survivors of childhood physical and childhood sexual abuse, as well as adult survivors of parentification, spousification, infantilization, deviant parents, and more. You will find a list of resources to support you and all these painful feelings that come up while in therapy.

Also, do ask your therapist about all of these things, and see what your therapist says. Be honest with your therapist about what you're feeling, even if you're in disagreement. I know it helps once all that is out in the open, and it will strengthen your relationship with your therapist, too (if your therapist is good and not condemning or judgmental or aloof).

I get triggered by some things, so I wasn't able to read most of the above, but I read enough to hopefully respond in a supportive way.

Sprinkle,
First, I apologize if you got triggered. That is not my intention at all!

I am talking to L about ALL of this. She is very non-judgmental, very accepting. Sometimes she goes a little too quickly, but she slows down as soon as I tell her I need her to.

I don't want to respond too much because I don't want to trigger you anymore. I do appreciate your suggestion of looking up "moral injury". While I'm not sure it completely applies, I'll still look into it.

Bad people do and think bad things. Good people do and think good things. The rest of us are some shade of grey.

And least I hope that's true You're ok, just don't act out your worst thoughts.

I have to say that sometimes people who are normally good do bad things too. But they then feel guilt and try to atone for their mistakes.

L tells me all the time about circle living. That our core-self is not our thoughts or feelings. And she tells me that we are all devil and angel. In her last email she told me: "Soothing fear and shame is not letting your self off the hook for what you care about. It’s taking responsibility for your nervous system’s need for help getting back into your window. It’s helping itself get to a place where you can think with wise-mind and address things the way you want to."

I try to keep these in mind. I try to be a good person. I've changed and tried to improve myself. I don't know how to atone, but I know keeping secrets and staying in slience isn't the answer. L and I always say the we need to bring light to the darkness. That's my goal: to force myself to really see and understand my secret. To bring light to it by admitting to it and processing it.

I wish I could post about it here. I feel, again, like L is minimizing it, trying to give me excuses. Holding onto core-self is not easy when you feel your past is eating away at your soul.

Yesterday, she compared it to something else that she equated as worse. But it wasn't worse, at least in my mind. And then she used a really big word the other day, and I asked her if she felt that applies to me. She said no, but when I read up on it, it's a resounding yes. So I feel like she's not seeing the truth or is in denial.

I just wish I could have other's opinions. And I wish I could find other people who have had this experience and compare opinions. However, if I go do a search, I'm bombarded with stories which only trigger me.

I guess all I ask of you all is for support. Sometimes I don't feel I deserve it, but I do need it.

Thank you all for listening and chiming in.

You do have my support, no matter what you did. It's not like I feel I have a clean slate either and I'm glad my therapist is accepting my version of it. I completely understand your issues with your T, though she is not at all wrong in saying and pointing out that you are not all wrong. There is a core within that may be "off", but you are struggeling to do and be good and that is all anyone can ever do, right? It's what I do. One day at a time :-)

((((((((ScarletPimpernel))))))))

Hugs, Scarlet. Do you have a sense of what she could say to you that would be helpful? And/or what you wouldn't want her to say? If so, that could be good to share with her. Or to try to explain why what she said (with the big word) didn't help you. I know those sorts of things can be difficult to explain though. So even just to say it didn't help without explaining it, maybe?

I just talked to her on the phone. She did say some things that helped.
1. She admitted she does have images in her head, but she doesn't dwell on them. They don't trigger her. That made me feel good that she was honest about her thoughts and was reassuring that they don't affect her like they do me.
2. She compared other people suffering. For example, if one of my nieces was suffering from a secret, would I pull away from her? And my answer is, of course not! I would be more likely to be there for her more than normal. L said she feels the same way.

There's nothing I wouldn't want L to say. I want her to be open and honest. I did ask her to be gentle using big real words, and to be careful with nouns and context. But whatever is on her mind, I want to know.

The big word she recently used, we're still disagreeing on. She doesn't think it applies, I do. She says that what matters is how I feel and think. But I want her to be on the same page as me. I feel like if we're not, then she isn't understanding.

My last several emails I've used many big real words. I think I'm going to write her another email defending my case on why it applies. She said she'll probably not respond back in detail via email, but would definitely discuss things in session.

I'm glad she was helpful in the phone call, Scarlet.

In regular life, does someone have to agree with you in order to understand you?

I guess no. People disagree all the time. I don't know. I just feel like she's not judging me because she's biased or is in denial. I just want her to see the badness inside of me. She says we're all angel and all devil, but I feel like she has blinders on the devil parts of me.

I don’t think that she is in denial or has blinders on. She remains a professional and looks at this from a professional stand point. I am not saying she’s pretending but she is a treatment provider.

Plus I thought you don’t want to be judged. So she doesn’t. If you feel that you really need someone to acknowledge how bad that was, and maybe you need in order to heal, there have to be some online venues on irl people where you can disclose it and people wouldn’t be understanding.

I don’t have any secrets of this caliber but I had situations where I was wrong and I apologized but the person was like “oh it’s fine no big deal”. It was a big deal! It was bad! Sometimes we need an acknowledgement that things were bad and we did wrong things so we can heal.

But you typically won’t get that judgement from a therapist

Honestly, I don't know what I want. I'm so overwhelmed and mentally messed up right now. I don't want her to judge me...and I do. I go back and forth. I just want her to see me as me. I guess I have to trust her with that.

She likely does see you as you, I think she proved it by being a responsible and thoughtful therapist. But still in realms of being a treatment provider. So there’s a limitation. I feel that you want more but “more” likely isn’t possible here.

I guess we all want to be seen and heard. But there’s always a limitation to it, not just with a therapist. No one could really fully “see” us, sometimes we can’t even “see” ourselves! Just my thoughts

Hugs.

What do you think of the following:

You tell her you have a lot of badness. She doesn't accept that, she tries to convince you to think differently. And so you feel unheard.