Couch 244: Great Expectations

LT,
'll get my scrapbook back tomorrow from L, and in there is our definitions of love between a therapist and a client. I don't have it memorized, and L puts it in words better than I can. I'll try to remember to post it tomorrow. I think it might help you? I hope so at least.

I would not use the word love to describe what I feel about most other people that I like and am attached to in various ways. I reserve it for the way I feel with family and romantic partners. I know there are several types of love - I find it easier to use different language to non romantic/non family people.

Hit my 1000th dash today

Thanks, Scarlet! That would be helpful.

I think this is how Dr. T is as well, from what he's said. Out of curiosity, what would you say to non-romantic/non-family as a term of liking or feeling attachment to them?

That's impressive!

LT, I read Katherine Hepburn's autobiography "Me" many years ago, and her definition of love made an impression on me:

“Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. What you will receive in return varies. But it really has no connection with what you give. You give because you love and cannot help giving.”

Thoughts?

Holy cow scarlet im burned out just reading what you do for your h. He would get one bath, and then i am afraid i would go all sweeney todd on him.

I would tell my t i loved him when i had this like warm sensation in my gut, so for me it is probably indicative of lactose intolerance.

Well and stopdog gave it away - we only speak klingon to each.

I just had a great dinner - soft tacos of canned corned beef, romaine leaves, and sesame dressing. What is it about romaine lettuce?!

Thegal - i like that. Maybe it was more like an alien bursting from my chest. It was just something i had to air.

Thanks, Lost! I like your definition of it, the "deep feeling of care."

And he has said he doesn't think of the expression of love as being part of the therapy relationship, or something to that effect. Like, it's fine to feel it, but it shouldn't be shared.

Now I'm wondering whether he and I might have different ways of defining "accept," too?

Technically, they could do all of it if I wasn't there. Some things like dishes and laundry (for me and H), I'm very specific about how they're done. But yes, I know that they could take care of themselves. When I had my gallbladder surgery, H did do everything with a little help from me. They just refuse to do anything when I'm here. That's why I need time off. This Saturday, I told H I'm not doing anything: no chores, no cooking, nothing! I even told him if he wants a shower, he'll have to do it Friday or Sunday.

Huge, huge difference. It’s like if someone gives you a gift. You accept. It’s yours. But say someone tries to give you a gift, and you reject it. But your rejection of the gift also indicates that you accept as a fact that it was offered. Basically, he acknowledges you said it. And nothing more.

Frankly, I don’t know why you persevere with him. It seems like a form of self-torture to me.

He was saying today that it's good to keep talking about difficult stuff as long as I can tolerate it. (I had said maybe we just shouldn't talk about the love stuff anymore.) And that he thinks this is tied into us figuring out what I want from the therapeutic relationship (even if I can't get it). I said I wanted to be really open and honest about that, but that his reactions sometimes make me feel like it's wrong to want something. Which leads to shame. Just like my mom judging my feelings. So it's difficult for me to feel safe opening up. I forget what he said to that part?

I was pretty open about some stuff in yesterday's session, which made me feel vulnerable and likely contributed to my reaction to both the session and his email. Maybe we need to talk about how to handle things going forward if I'm going to be talking about more unreasonable things, to use your words. Can we just explore them without him overtly passing judgment?

Thanks for explaining the difference. So he's basically just acknowledging that I said it. Which of course was not what I was trying to ask him.

He did say yesterday that he was becoming more comfortable with it and understood better now. But then today, said he'd never be completely comfortable with it.

And yeah, I'm definitely having serious doubts about him again. Which I did mention to him.

I like that--thanks for sharing!

So I was actually telling him that it's partly a feeling in my body, which is why it's hard to explain (and it's a different feeling from lust). Maybe it's just lactose intolerance for me, too!

I rarely have need of a term for such - but I suppose fondness, liking, have a bond with = that sort of thing. But for me, it rarely comes up that I need to articulate a term. I can't actually even come up with an imaginary situation outside of deathbed scene:

example

Scene - single iron bed, thin woolen blanket covering a dying woman who is surrounded by her closest friends. No sun, it is cloudy and drizzling outside (which is how I always want death scenes to be but no one I know has ever managed to shuffle off on anything but sunny, delightful days)

Friend 1: Oh dying friend, what fun we had
Friend 2: 40 years we have known each other - remember the hiking trip to X or the time we spent that summer exploring the boundary waters?
Stopdog: yeah we had fun

Dying woman: I am glad I had friends like you
Friends: us too.

The End

Even people I do love - we say it some but not all the time - in fact, for me, if a romantic partner keeps on about telling me about love all the time - I just get annoyed. Like I know - you already said that - let us move on to more interesting topics

Why do you have such a need to tell him? I mean what do you get out of telling him? (I understand you get to say anything in therapy - but that isn't the same as why do you want to tell him?)

Oh - and also because i didnt really have the opportunity to have these feelings when i was growing up, so for me to have these feelings in therapy - i think they were more about connection and seeing and being seen.

Hi all. Enjoying the love convo but too tired to participate rn. I had the delightful tomato soup and vanilla pudding for dinner, all still appears well. Waiting for night nurse to check in w me.

Watching Leave It To Beaver. I slept like a rock for a bit, and now I can't go back to sleep cuz I'm hungry. Good thing I saved my applesauce from dinner, breakfast is still probly 5 hours away!

Yikes, Artie.

That had better be some really good apple sauce.

Glad you have an appetite, though.

I hope the rest of today is kind to you.

Thanks, Lost. May the day bring kindness your way as well.

Yes, this is the closest description for me too. More of a state of being than anything logical or describable. Like holding a tiny sleeping baby. My T and I don't use the word, but there is definitely love in the room.

LT, I wish he could accept your feelings because acceptance would be the gateway to all the other things you could dive into if he understood attachment/trauma. It's like you're both stuck in the doorway and now you are tasked with describing to him what a doorway is.

I really feel like I want someone to fight your corner. It doesn't sound like the issue is whether you can tolerate talking about love (you seem interested and robust about the range of your feelings in that area), the issue seems to be whether *he* can bloody well tolerate it. What seems intolerable to you (and understandably so) is his reaction to your feelings. So as long as you can tolerate his emotional illiteracy, it's good to keep talking about it?! Yeah, no thanks.

Also, I want to be clear that I don't consider love or talking about it to be unreasonable. I should have said "unreasonable". I used the word in this way since love isn't in the logical category, reason in its literal sense.