Long-term clients and maternity leaves

Hugs, Scarlet...

Thanks, LT.

L sent me an email yesterday about policy and schedule changes, and it really threw me off. Then I waited 12 hrs for her response which she said it would be later that day. I guess 9pm is "later that day" to her, but 9pm to me is nighttime. The content was upsetting to me and just her contacting me was upsetting. Every communication with her, I obsess over. I wait and check all the time to see if she responded. And then I obsess over her response and read it a ton of times. I HATE my obsession. I know it's my attachment. It's that I'm longing for what I used to have, but all I'm allowing myself is crumbs. But because I'm so 'hungry', it's not enough.

I need help.

I can't seem to find a good middle ground. I'm still so confused about everything. I feel like I desperately need to protect myself and keep her at arm's length. But there's the other side of me that just craves her attention.

I thought of maybe her sending me a supportive email in the beginning of the week. Something that might "hold me over". But now I'm thinking that might not be a good idea. Maybe I need to push myself for no contact outside of session except my weekly update.

I don't know what to do. I just know I'm confused and hurting.

Hey scarlet. I am trying a new thing. Instead of saying, tomorrow i will do my chores, stay on my diet, be disciplined etc etc etc, i thought i would tell myself - tomorrow i will show myself love. I will treat myself as something precious. I will be sweet to me, as Thelma so famously said. Its hard for me to say exactly what i mean because it is a new experience for me. To appreciate myself. To bejewel myself! To not be felt as a burden (which my mother called me, an impediment to her life) but as a delight. Then what would this situation look like for you?

Bejewelling yourself is a lovely idea. It reminds me of what Clarissa Pinkola Estes says about loving our bodies as our consorts, using perfumes and oils to anoint ourselves.

Scarlet, she is available to you in session. Maybe this is a time to focus on the work in session in a concentrated and contained way. It sounds to me like you are feeling the sharp edge of when boundaries are (over) extended outside of session - it feels like care at the time, but actually can result in something unstable. That is her responsibility. Allow yourself to experience the cycle of contact-no contact-coming back into contact. Without that flow, you are stuck craving contact which doesn't help you reach something secure because you have limited experience of her not being available and then coming back into direct relationship with you. I think this would partly explain why her maternity leave was so crushing for you - she hadn't allowed you to build up the experience of her not being available to you and the associated reassurance and safety when she comes back into contact. Obviously, you have wanted this intense level of contact with her historically, but ultimately I don't think that having that need met really encourages growth.

Thanks Luna.

I definitely am not kind to myself on a daily basis. I think that's probably most important. Is this similar to self-compassion? I know L mentioned that a few times, but it's hard for me. But I think the way you put it, it seems more doable especially if I only concentrate on today and just being nice to myself. I will try it today! Today, would be a good day anyways because I see L today and that stirs up so much shame and confusion. But if I just take care of me, maybe I won't stress so much about it.

Also, I need to find more support and things that occupy my time. I did join a women's childless group on fb this week. I don't feel L is qualified to help me with that anymore. Now to figure out things to do during the day that I will enjoy.

Thanks Comrade.

I think you're right. I think too much contact is part of what's confusing me and upsetting me. It seems like I want that contact, but like Artley also said, I actually need the boundaries. It's been a shock to my system: so much contact to very little to so much again. And I think my mind/body is saying that it's just too much. Contact might feel good in the moment, but in the long run it hurts.

Plus, we're going to try twice a week in a week or two, again. I won't have much of a need or desire, I hope, to have that contact outside of session.

I think that part of my point is that you haven't had the opportunity to experience very little contact with her, even during her leave. From what you have described here, you have maintained contact with her (albeit less than you are used to) and I can imagine that this taunts you. It would have been really hard to have no contact during her leave and it would have made going back into direct contact with her really hard, but these periods of no contact are what adults need to be able to do. Maybe twice a week will work well, maybe it will simply circumvent the issue because it replaces one kind of contact with another. Hopefully she can help you work out what you need in order to grow your secure attachment, rather than just seeking to meet your immediate needs (which she does from a place of care, I have no doubt).

Comrade,
"but these periods of no contact are what adults need to be able to do."

This is very hard for me. I've been use to 24/7 contact with my H, almost daily contact with L, and multiple times a week contact with T when I was still seeing her. Everyone else, I can have separation from and it doesn't bother me. But with H or my support person, I've had continual contact with them for years. I think 20+ years. Even when I was in college, I saw my counselors each at least once a week. Plus I had a therapist. Gosh, even in high school with my teachers.

Just being honest, changing this would be extremely difficult for me. I think that me wanting some boundaries with L is progress.

Of course it's hard Scarlet, all of these areas of growth are hard for everyone. It's the level of difficulty and the complex nature of the development which makes it work rather than something straightforwardly soothing and satisfying (although it can be those things too). This will be really hard territory for you because it sounds like you have never been given the chance to be able to develop independence in this area, but it is possible to learn these things as an adult and ultimately it leads to fulfilment and some kind of soul retrieval (at least let's hope so! My work is different from yours, but key parts of my development are missing too and I am working hard too).

I have an issue. I know people here are offering support and advice because they care. They're invested in my story. But what does one do when the forums advice differs from your therapist's advice? I know both, the forums and L, mean well.

I guess I just have to do what's right for me, even if it turns out wrong. Someone is going to be disappointed in me.

I think this is why holding L back is important. AND I'm not ready to throw away a 5 year relationship. I'm just struggling.

Session today was another hard one. Lots of crying. Some silence, some raising voice (which I've never done with her before). I got an apology for something she said about my infertility back when she was pregnant. That was nice and needed, AND it doesn't help any of my current issues. But I think I was able to say everything clearly today. Of course, it's only the beginning. I wouldn't even believe her if she apologized for anything else, not saying she will or won't. I feel good about everything I said. I hope she's starting to understand the abandonment and hopes/desires part.

I know this is really hard, because I struggle with it, too--but try to let go of the fear of disappointing people, whether L or those on the forum. I agree that you need to do what seems right for you.

You can also hold L back some without throwing away the relationship. Maybe try to look at it is redefining the relationship so that it works better for you? You've realized that such frequent contact might cause issues in the longer term. So you can decide that you'll contact her less, for example, and see how that goes. It doesn't mean you're throwing away the relationship--just shifting it.

I've also had to shift some how much I listen to what people on here say. There can be some helpful insights.

At the same time, no one is sitting in your sessions with you and knows what exactly goes on. And everyone is also replying from their own viewpoints, colored by their therapy and life experiences. We are all trying to help. But what might be right for, say, me, might not be right for you, or might not be right for you right now. We're all in different places in our lives and in our therapy. And we have different experiences in our backgrounds. Just trying to support each other, but none of us are experts on you, L, or your relationship.

Thanks LT! That means a lot to me. It's just hard. But even L says to trust my wise-mind. I think this situation is more difficult than normal is because it's directly with L AND I truly don't know how to navigate this. I am so torn apart. It's like a lose-lose situation. If I rely on her, I hurt. If I push her away, I hurt. I think I hurt more from this than even ex-T. Just because how much I let L in.

I'm trying!

It seems highly unlikely that anyone here would be disappointed in your therapy choices. The investment is yours, no one else's. I agree with LT, people offer insights. For myself, sometimes I find them useful, sometimes they seem daft. Part of discussion and reflection is figuring out what your experience is. It seems like this is linked to the boundary issue - you are looking to others to conceptualise yourself rather than figuring our your inner self as the bedrock. Rather like you will have as much of L as she will offer, regardless of whether that actually serves you.

My comments are just comments. They are not instruction.

Hi, I hope you don't mind me commenting. I am only new here but find your story very interesting. You seem to only have hard choices. It sucks that there isn't one nice choice that fixes all the difficult things.

It reminds me a bit of my experience with sugar and sweetness. I used to eat a decent about of chocolate and could easily eat a couple of rows off a block of chocolate and not feel like I'd had too much. But after a couple of months of weight loss, and only having one or two squares once or twice a week at most (which I found very hard), I noticed that I really loved strawberries. Before I had found them a bit tart and a bit bland. But suddenly I could taste the complexities of the flavour and the sweetness was out of this world intense. I also found that Greek yoghurt with a teaspoon of honey was nearly as delicious as well. I didn't feel I had any need for chocolate and one square occasionally was plenty (in the first couple of weeks I used to think about it all day and couldn't concentrate on what I was doing).

I feel like your experience with therapy is like this but times a billion. Your therapist used to hand you bags of chocolate saying, "eat as much as you want". And like a normal human being, you have basic needs for attachment (like a basic need for energy), and being handed a bottomless bag of this need being met in the most loveliest and best of ways, how could you possibly say no to having more and more of it? And a bit like a child whose parents never let them have any chocolate, who then grows up and has their own money so splurges on all the best kinds, you probably missed out on this as a kid so you are extra keen to experience it and much less able than other people to choose no when it is offered to you so freely.

Then, she goes on leave - being used to eating a block of chocolate nearly every day, suddenly you get none. That's going to be incredibly hard to cope with. But then, randomly on some days you get a bag full again. Just when you had started to get used to going cold turkey, or occasionally eating some weird brand with a strange taste that you're not even sure you like (sometimes seeing someone else). That would be so hard to figure out how that fits in your current life.

I feel like the "healthy" (big use of quotes there) relationship is like having strawberries regularly and really enjoying them because you can taste ask the sweetness. You can have plenty of them and not be sick. And then just having chocolate sometimes when you really need that boost, but tasting every molecule. A "good" therapist would know regular strawberries and occasional chocolate is maintainable long term and good for clients. A therapist encouraging a vulnerable client to get used to infinite chocolate is not so good. Sure, they probably feel good when they see the client enjoying all the treats they missed out on when they were younger. But it isn't maintainable forever. And she never considered what it was like for the client to be expecting chocolate every day to have it suddenly cut off without a plan for a tapering period or anything. It seems so irresponsible and thoughtless to me.

And now the client is being offered infinite chocolate again, which they know they really really enjoyed, but they also know isn't good for them, and they have to try to figure out for themselves how to navigate saying no to the irresistible offer, when the person who is supposed to help them with that is the one offering the infinite chocolate on the first place! How can the client possibly win in this scenario?

@crystalcat
And more than a metaphor for me! My father plied me with chocolate to make up for my mother's physical and emotional absence. I guess thats why i crave double chocolate (chocolate chocolate chip). I used to watch my mother inhale salad. It was too vinegary for my tender mouth so i would often decline. They were fine with my self-exclusion. But now as i heal i find myself craving salad

Thanks Crystalcat.

Yes, I completely agree with your analogy. Everything. It's been really hard trying to stay "healthy". She's offering me everything she took away. And I want it, crave it! But for one, I know it's not healthy, and two, she's going to do this again to me.

So far, even though it's been only 2 days since session, I've been pretty good with not emailing. I told her not to randomly email me either, so that helps.

I still don't know what a healthy balance looks like. But I know it shouldn't make me obsess or feel shame. We're doing "I love yous" and hugs for goodbyes, and they hurt so much. It's like everything stings now. So cravings vs pain is really hard to navigate. For now, I know that contact needs to be restricted as much as possible. I'm not even depending on her for my safety right now.

It's been so painful and confusing having L back.

Great post Crystalcat. I've been thinking a lot about this recently...about my own past therapy and some of the therapists I read about here who offer multiple sessions per week, outside emails, etc. to clients with attachment longings due to unmet needs in childhood (I'm one of those clients, btw).

It seems very wrong to knowingly create a dependency in a client who will then struggle to maintain their own healthy boundaries and sense of self...ESPECIALLY when the therapist literally benefits financially from the clients attachment and dependency. From what I've read on this forum (and others) it seems many clients stay with 'not-so-great' therapists because they are too desperately attached to leave. I myself saw a therapist like this a few years back. Rather than healing my trauma while building ego strength, self awareness and resiliency- I became more dependent, more desperate for her validation, less resilient, and more isolated from others. But I was too attached to leave her. I loved her and was attached like she was my mommy and I was a child. It was horrible. In my opinion, this behavior from therapists is damaging and potentially unethical on the part of the therapists. At the very least there should be FAR MORE informed consent around this issue!

Edited to add:

I am definitely not judging those who stay with these therapists. I too would still be with mine had she not left me first. At the time I was incredibly devastated. I had been seeing her 3x a week for over two years. I was consumed by thoughts of her. I would count the hours until I could see her again. I hung on her every word and email reply. It was excruciatingly painful when she left.

Of course, now I see it was the best thing that could've happened. I'm still in therapy with a different therapist who I adore, but the therapy no longer rules my life or dictates my entire week. I am more resilient and able to cope with hard feelings, big issues, etc without constant reassurance and validation from my therapist. Sure, I continue to need therapy but it's no longer so focused on my attachment to the therapist and I'm making more progress and feel like an adult again.

I think one of the deeply confusing factors in attachment territory is that certain aspects of the dependency can look like growth. For example, as you grow closer to your therapist it can feel like you are learning to accept closeness, becoming more fluent with intimacy, allowing someone to witness your pain, exploring your vulnerability, and so on. However, whether this is actual growth or a repeat of unhelpful inter-relation patterns around dependency/lack of agency/yearning for an unfillable need to be met/etc is not clear. It feels a bit like in order to enter into attachment work, you already need to be sufficiently aware of your attachment wound in order to protect yourself from rogue therapy practice.