Couch 249: The Self Care Couch

I am glad Dr T. tried to clear some of it up, but I just want to say how inappropriate all of that was. I feel almost like your friend said, "Whose therapy session, was it?" But I am really glad you got some answers you needed; I just hope everyone is able to move forward from this. I love everyone's response on this thread from all different angles, sometimes I forget how useful this place really is.

Have a lot to discuss with T on Tuesday, myself. My emotions are absolutely all over the place. I am reflecting on some of my actions this past week and just want to shake myself, thinking "did you really put yourself through that, who is that helping?" ugh. I think back to when I was a kid often, wondering where this whole self-hatred thing really came from because I never did this to myself when I was younger.

Definite food for thought.

I'm sorry this move is upsetting you so much LT. I did have a couple of observations regarding this particular post. I know I have mentioned this before but you saying you have trouble accepting that both things can be true triggered me regarding DBT again. A dialectic is when 2 opposites are true at the same time. DBT teaches a lot of skills that can help you with many of your apparent symptoms including Distress Tolerance. It may be helpful for you to explore.

My second observation is regarding the perceived inappropriateness of him voicing his dissatisfaction with the cost and delay of the move. You have mentioned in multiple threads that you wish you could speak to him as a friend, that you would like to know how ''he'' is doing as a person but you know he would not go for that. It seems to me that he finally did share his true feelings as a person (I am not agreeing that this is right as a therapist) but you are not pleased with that either. No need to answer but is it because he is expressing his own negative experience, would it be better for you if he was expressing something positive in his life? Or is it that he is expressing his true feelings that don't directly impact you? EX: Would it be more acceptable if he would be talking to you like a friend and only expressing his feelings about you. Either way, it seems like he was talking to you as a friend would.

zoiecat

I had a few episodes like that 2nd point with my t. I was like, get that genie back in the bottle PRONTO! It was okay for me to WANT it, but really not okay for him to DO it.

I think it speaks to our wanting safe love from our parents, and their not being able to give it, due to their immaturity etc. So we try and try and try to bargain with them (is it like gambling?) but are disappointed when they try to fulfill their own needs at our expense.

Is he speaking like a friend? He sounds more like he is speaking as someone who isn't managing his stress and it is leaking out in inappropriate settings. Equally, my friends don't tell me that they want to meet with me for the financial benefit (of me paying for lunch, for example. Joke's on them of course because I always forget my wallet and my pockets are stuffed with kings and aces, etc).

Speaking like a fiend, maybe.

Thanks, LadyShadow. I do find the mix of perspectives on here to be helpful. I used to feel attacked by those who didn't agree with me or give the sort of support I wanted. But now I'm at a point where I (usually!) can appreciate the different perspectives and do my best to learn from them.

I'm sorry you deal with self-hatred now. I do as well. I hope your T is helpful to you Tuesday.

...and your favorite jackdaw.

Thanks, Zoie. I know you've mentioned DBT before, and I bought a workbook at one point, but didn't get very far. Maybe I do need to look into it more. I do think I've gotten better with distress tolerance and will try various things to get through it, but it doesn't always work.

As for the friend thing, I'm not sure it's necessarily about him expressing something positive. What tends to be difficult for me, including this time, is that it's generally all on his terms. He might choose to share something on his own. But if I had asked him the question--like, "how much is this costing" (though that would seemed too intrusive, and I wouldn't have asked that) or "what exactly did the contractors do wrong?" he likely would not have answered me.

He's admitted this himself, that he'll volunteer something when he chooses to, but doesn't like to answer that sort of question when asked. Even something much more benign, like, "Did you have a good vacation?", which is something I'd ask a coworker that I didn't know well upon their return. So it still shows a huge imbalance in the relationship.

I think it was also him showing anger and frustration that felt difficult, because I wasn't sure how to respond. In a way, I wanted to take care of him and support him in a way like I would with a friend. But I wasn't sure what my place was and what was OK as he was sitting there ranting and cursing. Note that I don't have an issue with cursing, but he only does it on occasion, so it was jarring to hear how he referred to the contractor, for example.

Yes, I think this was a lot of it. He normally seems pretty even-keeled (well, he has his moments), so it was a bit jarring to see. Which is also why I said a couple times, "I understand you probably really need a vacation right now." But in a way, that felt like my taking care of him. And I felt a bit wrong sharing how the sudden vacation/constant changes in move timeline were affecting me when he was dumping his stress all over the place.

And good point on your friends not saying they want to meet you for the financial benefit--now I'm picturing the check coming, you reaching into your pocket, and tossing kings and aces on the table instead of money or a credit card.

Ha, yes!

Ah, we've met for lunch before I see.

Yes, it's all very complicated. During the pandemic, for example, I liked that he was sharing more with me while also recognizing that it probably wasn't good for me overall. Part of me wanted to discuss it (and I eventually did), and part of me didn't want to because I was afraid he'd pull way back then.


I think with my parents--well, my mom, really--I just tried to please her and be the perfect kid until I couldn't anymore. I wanted her to love and accept me as I was, not her idealized version of what a person should be.

So glad my week is done! I took this coming Sunday off so I'll have a 3-day weekend. I know I just had a 4-day weekend over my birthday haha... but I'm old and could use another long weekend.

I'm looking forward to talking with R next week. I got a good first impression from our contact so far.

This is why I am often an alien = This would have pissed me off to no end. I would have been fine with the other stuff - but if a therapist said this to me - I would want to clock them or have a piano or anvil on their heads. It sounds so condescending and patronizing to me. I am glad you were happy with it -but I admit - I don't understand it

Thanks, SD. Well, he's come to learn the sort of thing I like to hear. A therapist would either know not to say something that to you or would very quickly learn.

It was mainly the apology I appreciated (I didn't ask for it--I was pretty vague in what I was looking for this time). And acknowledging that it's been difficult for me, I guess. Not so much the other part.

And I think, among his clients at least, that I'm the alien.

Actually-no they said crap like that to me all the time -I think it was just part of their script - it was patronizing and condescending but not personal. I told them it was crap and to stop being so condescending all the time. I particularly hated the 4 month early vacation announcements like I couldn't handle not having an appointment for a few weeks. God that annoyed me to no end. I was fine with the night before cancellations or even the day of if I hadn't started to their office. But neither therapist particularly knew me well or understood anything I said from what I could glean. I certainly never felt understood or known by them - but since I didn't hire them for that - it probably would have been odder if they had.

These seem to me to be interesting. You wanted to be accepted for who you were= but you want him to tell you the sorts of things you want to hear.

I am not saying it isn't usual to want these. Just that it was interesting to see.

Yeah his speech for me would have gotten the reaction "dont tell me how i/to feel."

Isn’t this bothersome, though? When someone seems to be saying the sort of thing I like to hear deliberately, it’s not genuine to me. They’re just saying it so I won’t get in a snit at them or whatever.

This thread attracts a lot of R’s as T’s

Hope your session goes well art.