Stupid question.

If someone has a doctoral level certificate does that make that person a Doctor?

Or does a person need to get several doctoral level certificates before they are called a Doctor?

Does anyone know?

pegasus, I have a PhD degree (not a certificate--we don't have those here), so that means my title is "Dr.", but that doesn't mean I am a doctor. Here in the U.S., being a doctor means being a physician (MD). But anyone with a PhD (or equivalent professional degree, such as Doctor of Dentistry or Doctor of Veterinary Medicine, or whatever their degrees are called) can be addressed as "Dr." instead of "Mr.", "Ms.", etc. I seem to remember you are in UK? So the convention could be different there. When I lived in Switzerland, we called the male professors with PhDs there, "Herr Doktor."

Dr. Sunny

(((((((((((((( pegasus ))))))))))))))
not sure

Thanks sunrise.

I'm a bit confused at the moment and trying to work something out.

Is a degree a certificate? ( a piece of paper, lol)

Thanks Fuzzy, I know I have asked you the same question recently.

There are different types of degrees in the U.S.: Bachelor's, Master's, Doctoral, etc. A degree is not a piece of paper. When you have completed the requirements for your degree, you receive a Diploma, which is indeed a piece of paper. People often frame them and hang them in their offices. But even if you lost your Diploma, you would still have your degree.

ok, thanks sunrise, I need to process this.

Yes, I often joke with the MD's I work with that I will remain in my position until I get my PsyD, so they have to call me doctor and I can confuse their patients.

In all seriousness, I would never make anyone call me doctor. I know it's professional taboo to have your patients call you by your first name but I would/will prefer it.

I'm not sure what a doctoral certificate is. Is that something different that you have in the UK? I am a doctoral student of psychology (Psy.D.) and I have to go to school for 5 to 7 years, complete two comprehensive exams, one assessment internship (I did my clinical internship during my Masters), and complete a dissertation. Once I successfully defend that, only then I can be called Doctor. A diploma, like Sunny said, is just a piece of paper-- the degree is the culmination of all the work that you do and the success of the dissertation.

I am obviously delusional.

Why do you say that?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
pegasus said:

I am obviously delusional.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">What is your delusion?

I think in the US at lot of places offer certificates or certifications. Here one major factor in how a degree or certificate is view in the academic community is whether it is issued by an accredited institution. An accredited institution will have consistent basic academic standards for BS, MS, EdD, PhD programs across all program offerings. In the US accreditation agencies serve as outside (third party) assessors and helps separate quality academic programs from other types of learning experiences.

wiki has an entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate

The title of 'Dr' used to be reserved for people who had earned a 'PhD' degree. Basically... Ones education goes like this:

Bachelors degree (3-4 years depending on which system)
Honours degree (the fourth year in a three year system or earned concurrently with the bachelors in a 4 year system)

You may then apply to do a PhD. It is becoming increasingly common for people to do a Masters degree (One year of coursework or research) before applying for a PhD because it is quite hard to gain entry. If your thesis isn't up to standard sometimes it will be reccomended that you transfer into a MPhil instead of a DPhil degree - especially in the British system.

A PhD then takes either 3 years (thesis only) or 5 years (2 years coursework then 3 years thesis) depending on the system.

You are only allowed to use the titles (BA, BA(hons), MA, Dr etc) after your degree has been 'conferred' in a ceremony (whether you are present or not).

Many people who work in applied fields with patients won't call themselves 'Dr' (even though they are entitled to) because to the general public 'Dr' tends to be equated with 'MD' (a medical degree so one is lisenced to practice medicine). Even though PhD holders were the original doctors and applied professions (including clinical psychology and medicine) were only derivatively associated with the 'doctor' title.

A PhD is a research degree in the first instance. It tells people that one is able to publish to the standard required by the peer reviewed journals in the field. It also lisences one to teach students at university and supervise students for their PhD degrees etc.

Certificates are available for a variety of things... The worth of the certificate depends on a few things... The time taken to earn the certificate (one that requires three years of full time study is clearly worth more than one that required attendance at one seminar). The quality / reputation of the university (or institution more generally) that conferred the certificate. The entry requirements, coursework requirements etc involved in obtaining the certificate (a certificate earned where you need a PhD to enter the course will be worth more than a certificate that has an open entry requirement. A certificate earned where there were hard exams required in order to obtain it will be worth more than a certificate that is attendance based).

A PhD (with the associated 'Dr' title) is the highest academic qualification that can be earned. In order to earn it you need to study for a number of years (between 7 and 9 - and most people take much longer than that). If you get a research PhD then you need to demonstrate a high degree of knowledge of the bredth of the field, and you need to demonstrate a much higher degree of knowledge of a particular area in the field. You also need (with your PhD thesis) to have established yourself as a world leader in a particular (usually very narrow) area. An expert. THE expert (in your particular narrow area).

It used to be that PhD's were about research. Research was what was meant to distinguish universities from other tertiary instiutions. Giving PhD degrees to people not engaged in research (e.g., Lawyers, clinical psychologists etc) was controversial. Allowing other tertiary instiutions (e.g., polytechnics) to confer bachelors degrees was also controversial.

I guess what happened was that PhD and degrees more generally were taken to be associated with a 'high standing' qualification. ANd clearly we wanted to give those to applied practitioners of respectable fields (such as physicians, nurses, lawyers, dentists) etc too.

Urgh.

One should be very wary indeed when paying considerable amounts of money in order to obtain a qualification.

It is possible to buy qualifications (including PhD's) from 'virtual institutions' off the internet. I think the universities are 'legitimate' in the sense that they are able to do this (there are no laws preventing them). The pieces of paper are, of course, worthless when it comes to obtaining a job that requires a PhD, however.

Firstly: Because you won't have supervisors to write you your reference.

Secondly: Because you won't have writing samples, laboratory results, experience with patients etc.

Thirdly: Because you won't have taken any courses.

One should be wary of funding ones PhD oneself, too. It is hard to gain entry... But if you don't gain funding (for tuition and a living stipend even if it requires TAing or working in the field) then I think it is fair to conclude that your field is telling you something...

Well, I have just got me another certificate this morning! So I now have two doctoral level certs! I'm either going completely mad or I am amazing, either way I don't care!

Hey,

Being completely mad or being amazing aren't mutually exclusive :-)

Congratulations on obtaining your certificates!

With respect to their being 'doctoral level' I'm not quite sure what you mean... Do you mean that you are doing courses that are doctoral level courses?

(The US PhD structure typically involves doing 2 years of doctoral level course work. Then you progress to doing a thesis).

wow pegasus sounds like you are truely on a roll there i wouldnt mind taking courses to become a doctor or something along those lines but i dont think it is truely for me i am more of a rancher type

They are from the British Psychological Society Division of Clinical Psychology and signed by the Director. The BPS only do doctoral level.

Thanks for the congratulations!

I have to admit that I was going into a meltdown and doubting my own ability.

Thanks for the congrats.

The BPS has accredited the following universities as offering courses that contribute either towards either a PhD in psychology or a PsyD in psychology:

http://www.bps.org.uk/careers/accred...s_flag=current

Any course which can contribute towards a doctoral qualification (a PhD, MD, PsyD degree) count as 'doctoral level courses'.

The BPS also provides courses that contribute toward a 'statement of equivalence' so that people who are not accredited to practice clinical psychology in the UK may practice in the UK:

http://www.bps.org.uk/careers/society_qual/clinical.cfm

Such courses may be considered 'doctoral level' in the sense that they are usually restricted to people who have entry to post-graduate study. But they aren't 'doctoral level' in the sense of contributing towards a PhD or PsyD qualification.

But really... Whether or not they are 'doctoral level certificates' doesn't make or break obtaining them being a significant achievement!

well keep going till you are complete with them all you seem to know what u are doing so might as well go all the way

Yeah, I just rang my T and asked whether I should keep my feet on the ground... he said I can float around a bit.

Of course you can :-)