T said that I am officially crazy.

Yeah, I have GAD too. I just don't always notice it because my other symptoms mask my constant worrying, and I don't pay attention to it.

There's a lot more in here that I'm working on processing, and intend to reply to when I have time for a proper reply. I have lots of posts writing themselves in my head right now, and I'm trying to keep them straight while at the same time having to meet real life expectations and obligations, and soon I hope to be able to get it all combed through and written out where I want it to be.

For those who were in my DBT chat this morning, my situation with T would also have worked as an example for the model of emotions and all the shame and guilt feelings too. I'll put the shame and guilt information from the book in the DBT thread, hopefully this afternoon, and I'll elaborate here on what's relevant for me.

Can't wait!

Running late, as usual. This week T didn't say I was crazy. I couldn't come up with anything useful to talk about, though. I finally did at the very end, after she talked about terminating me because I don't do any real work in therapy. I still struggle with finding the right thing to talk about. She says I know that stuff, but I keep being afraid of being rejected (or having what I need to talk about either dismissed or picked to pieces), and I don't manage to get it out there. This goes back to like 2 1/2 years ago, when I was trying to work through The Feeling Good Handbook, and couldn't get it right, and we were still doing email therapy then, and I was too discouraged and she was saying that I was telling her I couldn't do this kind of therapy and so she was going to terminate me, and I was constantly on edge and stressed out about it and desperate to talk to her in person, and then I had to cancel the in person appointment that was scheduled, and my request to reschedule it was too passive, so I had to wait another month to see her, and I was so distressed about it that I was suicidal, and never had the chance to talk about it and work through it. I never was good at talking in therapy, from the beginning, and ith previous therapists too, but since what felt like a huge rejection 2 1/2 years ago, and again half a year after that when I tried to bring that up and she didn't let me, I've been more and more cautious about what I will try to talk about, so I'm more and more restrained and it's just harder and harder. The same thing keeps happening and it just gets more frustrating.

I used the DBT model of emotions to break down whats' happening:

Emotion names: Shame (invalidation, remorse, regret) & Fear (anxiety, distress, nervousness, overwhelmed, panic, tenseness). Note, I probably should do this for each emotion, but it feels like they are all wrapped up together. They do keep building on each other.

Prompting event: Failing to talk about anything important in therapy, (fear of) rejection, fear of not getting help & losing someone important to me.

Interpretations: I'm not going to (maybe never will) live up to expectations. I"ll be rejected & criticized & disapproved of & a failure.

Body changes and sensing: Jittery, nervous, want to hide

Body language: Talking less, withdrawing, slumped posture, lack of eye contact

Action urges: Shut down, run away, apologize over and over, bring or offer gifts, promise to do better, change to easier topic

What I said or did: Stop talking, play with the cats, search brain for something that might work, change subject repeatedly

After Effect: loss of focus, dissociation, numbness, shame, feel hopeless, ant to change, feel lost and afraid

Function of Emotion: Protect from saying something important and having it dismissed or rejected. Only, it backfires because I get rejected for not saying anything important.

I'm wondering, Rap, if you can learn anything in your therapy even though you consider your T to be a whole lot less than optimal at the business? That is, in spite of her... Or is that too difficult and draining?

Actually, I still feel that she is very good, but I'm not giving her much to work with. I feel hurt about being rejected when I present something that took a lot of effort for me, but I know that she expects better from me, and I know that she wants me to make more effort. As she points out, I have a master's degree in this and by now would have to know and understand how to be in therapy. But somehow it seems like the rules are different for me (always have been), and I can't figure them out, so I just keep floundering.

Have you ever considered trying a new T? Sometimes you can get stuck with a T and remain stuck, perhaps you need someone with a whole different view point who can work on reaching you at a different level, yet also be patient with you right where you are at.
My T has told me from the very beginning that it's ok for a patient to move on to another therapist, that sometimes therapists are stepping stones.
Just a thought, I'm sure your T door is always open to you.

You have a loop going on there that needs to be recircuited! The difference between having an MSW and doing your own work is that the work needs to be applied! You can do it Rapunzel!

Im sorry Im late to this post - wanted to send you some

i dont think having a T that threatened to terminate me would be helpful fo rme - it would make me unsure whether I could share stuff with her in case she kicked me out the next session - I would eventually lose trust and shut down - geez it was hard enough to share with a T that said she wouldnt reject me -

You work as hard as you can at the time - you do as much as you can - isnt it T's job to try to get you to talk ? I dont' know... your T sounds too aggressve for me - but then Im a big wuss! Do you feel you connect with your T... or maybe she has taken you as far as she can and you need a different T with a different approach - one that helps you feel validated and cared for

I am sorry you are having such pain in therapy -

I have thought about a different T, but I would miss the one I have. I really do like her, and I want her to like me and approve of me, etc. I can't deal with this becoming one more failure.

Rupunzel,
Switching to a new T doesn't mean failure. I saw my first therapist for a year. She was always there for me, was really, really nice but we were not clicking. So I decided on my own to see a couple other therapists and see if I could click with them. Turns out I did pretty well with one of them. So I went back to my T and informed her. She told me not to feel bad about it at all, that I was taking care of myself and she was proud that I was doing that.
As I said before, sometimes T are just stepping stones. She could be wonderful, yet, still not be exactly what you need. It certainly wouldn't hurt to try one or two other ones, it's not like you have to switch, but you may find that you can really click with someone else.
You never know

Approve of you like you always wanted your parents to?

I have the same problem - wanting to be sick. I think it's interesting that you identified your two conflicting desires as "wanting to be held" and "wanting independence" because I think that's *exactly* what sickness allows - care and attention combined with permission to behave however you feel or act out your feelings - to be independent of others (or your own) expectations.

Bad feelings and behavior get turned into "symptoms" which, instead of something to feel guilty or ashamed about, become currency to ask for more concern, care and permission to be yourself, since they're evidence of sickness.

You can call it an "excuse" and maybe there's some countertransference going on with your therapist who sees it as an excuse and self-coddling, but I don't think that's a helpful approach. I think that just puts more of the same kind of pressure on you which is driving you towards this behavior in the first place.

At least, that's the effect on me. What's helped me is to say "ok what if I did get my fantasy of the "crazy" "hopeless" diagnosis - what does that allow me to do? To feel? To be? What in myself am I squelching that so badly wants to be given permission to exist? I'd try playing with the fantasy and just accepting your desires and see where they lead you.

Instead of waiting for the "diagnosis" which gives you the permission you're looking for. Maybe you can give yourself that permission right away. Cut out the middleman of illness and medical validation and all the stress that is causing you.

changing T's if its the right thing for you is not a failure - its part of growth somtimes - I understand how it might feel that way - i want my T to approve of me too - the desperate part of me hangs onto relationships even when they should be over

I hope things work out for you either with this T or another one - taking care of you is not a failure

She's at least my 8th T. The rest either quit, or I ran away. Some only lasted one session. I want this to work, but I also don't want it to be over. I can probably make it about a year or so without any major crisis, but I dread having another year like the bad ones when everything goes wrong. When I'm in a crisis I almost thrive on it somehow, even though I'm miserable, and self-destructive and not productive at anything. When I'm not in a crisis I can't remember what it was like to feel anything, so I just sit there and don't have anything to work on.

Um, yeah.

We did really click, at least at first. I wanted a T who knew my potential. She did, because I had done well in the class I took from her. She's trying to hold me to it, and I guess I need more structure and more support, and when I've tried to bring in more structure from a book or something that I feel is relevant, I just never get it right. It's not good enough, so I stop trying.

What I have never had is a good closure. Terminations are always traumatic. After 5 years, it would only be more traumatic.

You made me think. Yes, there has to be some purpose in all this. And I want T to see that, and to help me find what wisdom there might be in wanting to be pronounced crazy. The "borderline" label, which T won't quite give me but can't deny either, feels validating because it feels like a good fit and I want to be understood. That's what feels good about reading Marsha Linehan. She understands, even though she doesn't know me.

I have had dreams and fantasies of being physically out of control while T or someone, I don't know who, firmly and securely but still gently holds me and doesn't let me flail around and hurt myself. There's a wish to be protected for myself, and for someone to care enough about me to protect me. I actually took my box of pins out of my bag during my last session and told T I wanted to use them to pin myself down so that I would stay in one place long enough to get something done. I have used the pins for SI before, but not for a while. I guess I carry them as a security item. She said something about me choosing to be out of control. Now the pins are calling me again from writing about them and thinking about them. They fill the emptiness a little bit.

I keep searching for a place where I can belong. I have moved continuously through my life, and only have lived where I am now for about two years. T asked why I can't belong where I am now. I didn't have the answer, but it's because I don't know how to belong. I haven't ever fit in anywhere. One function of being mentally ill is having a place to belong among others with the same problems.

Another thing is having been taught by my parents to have no personality and not attract attention or stand out, and this message being continued by my husband (whether he recognizes it or not) and extended to my children (he used to get mad at me for not controlling them and keeping them from "bothering" anyone, and I gave up on going anywhere because I couldn't enjoy anything when all of my energy had to go into keeping the children quiet and invisible). Being crazy would make me unique enough to stand out, have quirks, and have a personality. So I need to give myself permission to be unique and to stand out. Thats really scary to do.

A few weeks back, T said that what I'm in therapy for is that I'm afraid to see who I am or let anone else see who I am. I need some kind of permission to be me. To exist. To exist as who I am.

Is this like intellectual competition or something? Why not just focus on your feelings? Or is avoidance the whole point?

She might see it as intellectual competition, or as avoidance. For me, books and quizzes and lists of symptoms and dx really are an attempt to find some direction and to organize the chaos. Sometimes I'm trying to find what I'm missing. Sometimes I'm trying to find something that I have feelings about. I might be able to focus on my feelings if I could find my feelings. Intense feelings show up during crises, and disappear most of the rest of the time nearly entirely.

((((Rapunzel)))))

The only thing that I can see you missing is confidence in yourself. Everything you need is within you.

The chaos is coming from trying to please everyone around you or not bother anyone...so it becomes difficult to find space to let the real YOU, out. It is sad you didn't have the opportunity to learn this as a child, but you have the opportunity to do this now.

Take a moment to do a reality check the next time you are out. Look at the people going about their business...what are they focused on? Are the focused on whether or not you are bothered, or are focused on taking care of what they need to get done?

If you can see the people all around you are taking care of their own needs, it might help you realize that it is ok to do the same thing for yourself.

I know this is silly, but this is a little trick I use for myself sometimes. I think of the Saturday Night Live skit with Stuart Smiley...he used to say to himself in the mirror: "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh-darnit people like me." I say that to myself, which always makes me chuckle a bit as well as affirming that I am good enough just as I am.

This caught my eye earlier today and I wondered about it.

And this later post answered my questions about it. No wonder you like a crisis if it brings out your feelings. Now just how to access your feelings on a day to day basis............

I'm filling out a DBT diary card each day to try to at least think about emotions and figure them out. It's harder than it ought to be.

And today in therapy we seem to have discovered the antidote to my insane foundation of my world view. I keep saying that I just want to be a cat. Cats have it pretty good. At least T's cats do.

Well, believing that I am either invisible or that the whole world hates me are both very uncatlike beliefs. So in order to be a cat, I have to give them up.

thats true - cats can be invisible but they definately dont think they are invisible - they know they are clever and loveable - just like you

they also know how to play - which is somthing we all need to learn