Two Income family, but only ONE doing the house work {womans work?}

I live in a home with my husband of almost 14 years together. We both work full time jobs, and yet I am the ONLY one expected to do the house work. I have a job that keeps me at home, a daycare provider. So the way my hubby looks at things is this: He says because I am at home all day, I should have no problems doing the house work. He says because I only watch 3 babies, and our own child, I should have plenty of time to clean house. He said "Lisa, you are a stay home mom that earns money watching children, but that's what I am, a stay home mom. So, their is no reason why you can't keep a clean home".
I pointed out to him this: We both have full time jobs, and infact, I work about 11 hours per day mon-fri. He has an 8 hour job, as a bail bondsman on the night shift. He gets to watch movies all night, and baby-sit the phone. Once in a while he will actually have to do a bond. I am NOT jealous of him and his easy HIGH PAYING JOB, infact, I am happy for him. The last 13 years he has worked very hard for a different employer who did not approve of him, and did make him work very long hours. I don't walk around saying "I work harder than you do", no, I only really compare time at work. My 11 to his 8. Also I will mention to him that my job is very hard to do {with all the screaming babies and diapers and such} I only point this out to him to show him that I could really use some help from him during the time he is home. I said to him that I COULD inform him that we are partners, and that he now has to do 50% of the cooking and cleaning. But I don't, I said what I need for him to do is every day just give a concentrated effort of help, not more than one hour of cleaning per day, and not more than 2 hours each weekend day. I tolled him because He will only be helping me a short time everyday, I will be dictating to him what jobs I need done, that he can not just pick and chose what jobs he wants to do. He agreed to helping me, but now one month has gone by, and he has worked a total of 10 hours in one whole month. That is like 1 hour every 3 days. This last week he went 9 days with out helping me.
What doesn't help is that he has a mom who is the most liberal mom I have ever met, but at the same time, she can be the most old fashioned too. She has my hubby convinced that house work should be the woman's work only. I said out loud one day "so if I had to Balls between my legs, I could get out of the house work too?" I said that he gets 278 hours of fee time per month, while I get 20 to 40 hours of free time per month, and it depends if I MISS slept to get it. He easily will spend 5 to 8 hours per day on the internet or out fishing, or watching TV, or spending it with our son. I would very much like that much time to spend with our son too.
If I say ANYTHING about it, he will just tell me that if I don't like how things are, I can just pack my bags and go. {he knows I have no money and no where to go, he will even through it in my face that when he married me he took me away from an abusive relationship with my parents, so he knows I have no where to go} OR, he will just yell and say STOP NAGGING ME ALREADY, YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE RUNNING SOMETHING HERE LISA, WELL YOU ARE NOT, I AM THE MAN OF THE HOUSE, NOT YOU
So, I know that he loves me, and I would never consider divorce, we do love each other, and if anything, I think he is just blind to the fact that I really need help, he says HE IS THE TIRED ONE, he says that this is all woman's work anyway. Now, don't get him wrong, he is JUST like most of the men out there that I meet and he is just a normal guy, but I have to say that if balls are an excuses to not have to do anymore than the 8 hour per day job, well than bring me a couple and I shall have them installed {LOLL, just kidding, really, I LOVE being a woman, but don't love the attitude my husband has about woman and the home. In other words, NO MATTER how many hours of work I do, The house is still mine to deal with. Some have tolled me to just relax and do what I can every day and then don't worry about what does not get done. But then my hubby will go out of his way to point out that the house is a pig style. I say to him that if he is not going to help me, than keep your mouth shut. But that is to no avail, he will STILL bring his dad or mom into the house and for just about any reason he will show them around. My father in law without fail, will ALWAYS have to use our bathroom when he comes over.....So, how can I make things fair without leaving my hubby. How can I make him do house work with our sounding like a ***** or a nag or a controlling wife? Oh ..Did I forget to mention that we have had this same fight over and over again through our marriage, he will allways end up helping me for a time, than it goes right back to not helping. And each time this happens, we start from SCRATCH. I tolled him that he has 4 months to either really make an effort at helping me, or he will be having some consaquences, I am not making a threat, I am just saying that if he refuses to help me, fine, but I have to protect me and my sanity too. So I will start to get rid of one day care client at a time until I feel comfortable enough where I can take care of the house the right way. SOme would say do it now, but wE owe allmost 17 thousand dollars in medical bills and credit cards, so I have to work. I would loose 400 dollars per month per child I delete from my program. I said "if you like the income, than I just ask that you participate by helping me, " I suffer from migrains too, and all this strain on our relationship and the having to do everything, well is giving me migrains. We do not have med. ins.
Washable School Glue....yep, that's what I said.

A couple of things come to mind. (1) I am remembering reading about a couple who both worked but the wife did all the housework. She resented that it was all left to her to do. They tried hiring a maid, but she felt funny about paying the maid to do something that she was capable of doing herself (even though they could afford it). Their solution was that the wife would do the cleaning, but instead of paying a maid she got what they would have paid the maid and it went for fun things for her that she might not have done or gotten otherwise, but now it was guilt free. (2) Either of you could just as easily do the cleaning. You are the one that you have control over. It might not be fair, but if you do it then it will be done. Worrying about whether or not it is fair is counterproductive. I know what you're saying and I've felt like that too - when your work place is your home you are always at work and you never get time off. One thing that has been helping me to get my attitude adjusted and be able to deal with the housework is Flylady.net.
I hope that this helps.

would he prefer that you were just a stay at home mom with no other job? it sounds to me like that's what he would like. is that an option for you?

you might want to consider seeing a therapist on your own to deal with some of the (entirely understandable) resentment you have toward your husband. i think right now that resentment is going to cloud any possible solutions for you.

There is absolutely no reason in this world he can't help you with that housework. You deserve more then being the maid. It is not woman's work it is human work. If he isn't willing to help he is showing you absolutely no consideration. Most of the relationships that I have witnessed both partners shared in the household chores. This includes my in-laws, my mom-in-law never worked, was a full time stay at home mom but my dad-in-law helped her around the house doing dishes and such. It is his home and he should help take care of it.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to change him. He has it good right now, why would he want to change it? Sure he probably doesn't like the fights but he can work his way around that. BUT you can change yourself. You can choose how you want to be treated and demand that you be treated that way. The downside to this is that you may have to choose to walk out the door. You indicated that this is not an acceptable option. You could use passive/aggressive options. I bet you do all the laundry, right? What happens if he doesn't have any clean clothes? I mean there is no reason you have to put his laundry in the washer when you are doing yours and the kids. What about his stuff that he leaves around the house? I am just guessing he does this, I know my husband used to complain about the mess when I was really depressed and not doing my share of the housework, but I would look around and find his stuff laying around with everybody else's. If he has stuff lying around just throw it in a pile in the corner of the room. It will drive him up the wall. (My husband used this tactic a couple of times with me until he realized just how badly I was doing)

A warning: this will start major tensions in the family. It is not the best way to handle the situation. I truely would suggest that you get a therapist for yourself so you can work out your feelings about this situation and why you believe that you are incapable of taking care of yourself on your own (I believe any woman can fend for herself but most of us have been duped into believing we can't but I am a woman's libber so my opinions are quite strong on the subject having been one of those who were duped) and also get into couple's therapy so that you do have a safe place to talk about your differences. DO NOT GET THERAPY THROUGH THE CHURCH. That is just my prejudice because a old friend of mine did that and even though she suspected that he was sexually abusing her child the church convinced her that is was not her place to go against her husband's wishes. That she was the wife, she should stay home, do all the work and not speak back to her husband. She has become a second class citizen. I am quite bitter about that because I can see her pain.
Carrie

PS I appologize for speaking so strongly. It is just a subject that is close to my heart. Women deserve to be treated as equals. When drudgework is designated as women's work and we are required to do it free of pay then it demeaning us, making us less then we truely are. We are strong people, we are good people, we deserve to be treated well. Abolish woman slavery, it go goes on even today in countries all around the world including the United States of America. *Carrie quietly steps down from her soapbox and walks from the room*

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

Your plight is so familiar. I included a whole chapter on what I call The Chore Wars in my book on long-term very happy relationships, because this was one of the main issues that nearly destroyed my own marriage (well, it made me into an angry nag, and that certainly didn't make our home a pleasant place for my husband).

No, you don't have to be the maid. Or you SHOULDN'T have to be, but if you're married to someone who's so annoyingly old-fashioned as to insist that all the housework HAS to be yours, well, then you have some choices. But it sounds like it's not so clear cut. He's offered to help, but doesn't always follow through. Now THAT's a different story from refusing to help EVER or altogether. Sure, it would be great if he'd just pitch in when there's stuff to be done, on a regular basis preferably. Don't hold your breath, quit your job, or file for divorce. Instead, consider the following possibilities:

1. Are your standards for housekeeping a little too high? Maybe they're as low as they can go, but usually I find that women believe they have to keep everything spotless and tidy at all times, no matter how busy they are. Or produce amazing meals at all times. So think about your own standards. Are there things you can do less of? Less laundry? Wear stuff more often, change the sheets less often, that sort of thing? Buy extra underwear so you don't run out.

2. If it's HIS standards that are the problem, then you have a clear option: tell him to butt out. If it's YOUR job to keep house, then it's your job to decide how and when to do it. You're an adult, and you don't tell him how to do his job, so he has NO RIGHT to bug you if you're not always perfect by HIS standards. If he's critical of your efforts, that's a form of abuse. Emotional abuse. And that will kill your love for him. Tell him that.

3. Read what I wrote in Loving in Flow about this topic, if you can find the time (!). I explain in detail how you can adapt to a lazy sloppy hubby who has to be reminded to do his share (or even a piece of his share). YOU WILL HAVE TO ADAPT (after 14 years, he won't change dramatically), but you can do so with his help. Talk with him about how to get him to help out more, since you're considering giving up some of your child care duties in order to do more housework, and neither of you really prefers that. Or maybe you do.

Good luck. It's a common problem, a frustrating one, but it can be dealt with so that you can keep your marriage loving.

Susan K. Perry, Ph.D.
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.BunnyApe.com/lovinginflow.htm>http://www.BunnyApe.com/lovinginflow.htm</A>
Author of <font color=red> LOVING IN FLOW: How the Happiest Couples Get and Stay That Way </font color=red>

To: Bunnyyap, Zinobia, Penna, Rapunzel, thanks so much for the HEART FELT reply here.
I have done some ACTIVE stuff according to the combination of replys I received from all of you. I JOINED www.flylady.com for one. I got myself a personal mental health appointment and had a meeting.I Got the Book Family Manager written by Kathy Peel. I am looking into all the great info that bunnyyap has on the connected link/book info.
RESULTS:
My house is the cleanest it has ben for some time. My husband sees that I have now peacefully given up the fight, but not given up the attitude that he has to or should help me, there fore in order for ME to lead a less stressed out life, he IS now showing sighns of helping me more, and doing it too. I informed him POLITLEY but FIRMLY that he is NOT married to his mother, he is married to me. So no matter what SHE says about it, it is dealling with ME that you have to concern yourself with, not what SHE says. I mean no disrespect, but I disagree with my mother in law that ALL house work is womans work. He sees me NOT fighting anymore about it, but he sees me not stepping down from the attitude that he should help. I figured if I fight with him about helping me, and he still refuses to help, well than I am the onlly one with the stomach ack and head ack over it. So, I decided to just stop fighting about it, BUT, I will just make it clear that if he wants to GO ON A VACATION with me or go somewhere like a family outing that the house needs to be clean first, or I will not want to go, so if he HELPS me get things done, then we can all go sooner, and I won't be all stressed out on the trip.
The meeting that I had with the head doctor, she said after all these years of marriage, I can't expect to change HIM, but I can still change ME and HOW I do things. If he wines about not having clean socks, and my story to him is that I just don't have the time to FULLY take care of all the laundry, then BUY MORE SOCKS, AND LOTS OF THEM TOO. She said for me to consider getting a GRILL, because MEN love to GRILL. and if I got a grill, My DH would want to GRILL more often, and start helping in the dinner making. She gave me ideas on how to destress myself, take care of ME, and do what I can, then rest. I am not super woman, even if I could win an award for mother and wife of the year, it does not mean that I have to put my expectations so high that the house has to be perfict all the time. If he won't help, oh well, then don'e swet it, just do the most important things in the house first each day, and the rest will get done when they get done. If he complains about something not done, just say "Well, are you willing to clean that area, cause I have ben to busy to do it, so if you won't help, please be kind about your comments to me because I am doing the best that I can doing it by myself"
Joining www.flylady.com was one of the BEST things I have done for our house and our marrage in a long long long time. I FULLY recomend it for EVERYONE, Trust me, please look it up all. Anyway, here I sit in a clean house, a sleeping husband, and a child who is at grandmas, I think I have going to have a big glass of water, then go lay down and rest awhile. Thanks everyone for the help, and OH, by the way, Yes he would love it IF I could stay home and JUST take care of him and our son, BUT, we owe to much on a creadit card writhe. Love Melty_Sunshine

Washable School Glue....yep, that's what I said.

I'm married and have two children still living at home. My wife and I both work. My wife makes about 2/3 what I make, but she works overtime almost everyday, and nearly every Saturday. We have three rooms that need cleaning (or at least straightening up) everyday, the kitchen, the living room, and the bathroom. We decided about two years ago that it wasn't fair that the same person (usually myself or my wife) got stuck doing the majority of the cleaning everyday. So, we created a monthly calendar. Each day has the three rooms on it with myself, my wife, and the two kids assigned to a different room, rotating everyday. With three rooms and four people, one person gets a day off every fourth day. It really works out well. Everyone is responsible for their own bedrooms and laundry. My wife and I share the cooking duties.

My wife works her fingers to the bone, and I respect all that she does to keep this family together and running smoothly. I'm sure the same goes for you. The idea of anything around the house being woman's work has long since passed. I hope I don't come on too strongly here, but unless the woman makes the choice to stay at home and take care of the house, then the respectful thing for the mate to do is to do their share around the home.

Just my $1.98, FWIW.

Take care,
bptoo

"A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart."

Melty Sunshine,

Good for you! You are on the right track by being active and doing something and not just complaining. Your husband will probably help more when he sees that you are doing it and understands what you would like him to do also.

<font color=green>Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that, you, too, can become great. -Mark Twain</font color=green>

*Carrie stands up to give Melty a standing ovation!* Outstanding work woman. I am so happy for you. You are an inspiration. I am glad things are looking up. Keep at it. What you are doing is called Love and Logic. Everything has a consquence and if what needs to be done doesn't get done then the not-doer has a bummer of a time because the things he wants to do is out of the question until the thing that needs to be done is done. It is used mainly for kids but I find it works well with spouses as well. Basically it is saying what is acceptable for you and not backing down from it. I am so happy for you.
Carrie

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

Boy, I sure would like to stand up and take a bow, BUT...Even though things are notably changed at the house now, we still have our moments of laziness and attitude that it is all woman's work{HIS THOUGHTS, NOT MINE}.
And, I have found it just is not so easy to FOLLOW THROUGH with consequences of his Lack of help, But, the victory I guess is that it is further and further between EPISODES if you know what I mean. I just have to be thankful that the effort on his part is their now MOST of the time, even if it isn't ALL the time. Actually the last 3 days has been back to his old attitude, but this time, it's how I am reacting to his attitude that will change the out come. I have decided not to make it into world war three, but instead just point out what we agreed to, and if he says I am a NAG because of it{and he has} I just say..."You are only using the word NAG to stand on because it makes you FEEL uncomfortable me talking about what needs to be done, and you are not doing what you AGREED to do. So, You only see me as a nag because I cut in the middle of your Play time. I have done nothing wrong by bringing a remembrance to you of what you agreed to do, especially after 3 whole days." He did not respond good to that, and just wanted to Shut me up. So I did, after I had my say in a CALM way, then I walked away. I figure I should not have to "dance" around his feelings, yet say it firm enough, using a gentleness too. But, I don't have to play the VICTIM card, I am NOT a VICTIM. I am a woman who is married to a full able bodied man, who can not only help me because I ask him to , but help me because it is his duty out of respect to his wife, out of LOVE, and out of the PARTNERSHIP we share. I am NOT married to myself! So, I just hold my head up high now, and have RESPECT for MYSELF NOW! I deserve it. People don't always show it , but I still have choices, this is what I discovered on this journey, that I CHOOSE to have someone else determine my future, or I can create my own future using the wisdom and help from God. I am not talking about divorce, no, that's to easy, it's just to simple, No, the next guy could be the same way. No,. I have to decide for ME how I will handle the situation for ME, and accept the challenge and Push forward, making it work, being creative, and taking care of Me in the process. I am NOT talking about being cold, but being HONEST. I just make sure that my honesty doesn't cut like a knife, but brings healing in the situation instead of more pain. I think having respect for oneself is a big key here, one that I just determed lately in my life. Once I determed to respect myself, it gave me confidence to stop looking at my situation as hopeless, and stop playing the victim. If anything, HE is playing the victim card..."I can't do anything because I am tired" He will say ....or " This is woman's work"...That is just a cop out for him, and he knows it as he says it with a sheepish grin. He is the real victim because he is missing out on a more fulfilling relationship with his wife by causing this resentment in the home. Some might say that I am fighting against the current here, and causing myself grief. But I say, I am IN THE BOAT, GOING DOWN THE RIVER IN THE FORWARD MOTION STREAM. HE, IS ON THE SHORE. I SAY, GET IN THE BOAT OR RUN BESIDE IT, BUT THIS SHIP AINT STOPPIN FOR NOTHING. I am in forward motion, a motion of an organized and planned out life, full of confidence, and dreams that I can achieve. I don't have to wait on OTHERS to catch up, or get with the program. This is greater than just having a clean home, this reaches out into ALL areas of my life. Because I can think for my self, make decisions for myself, I have chosen to Respect myself. I choose to leave the bitterness behind me, and if he does not help me, HE is the one that looses, NOT me. I am going to stay in the mind frame that I AM A WINNER.
{I am getting down now off of the soap box, and returning the mic to the next person...LOL} whew......

Washable School Glue....yep, that's what I said.

I think your husband is borderline abusive and you are cutting him entirely too much slack.

It is a process. It will take time to become part of his lifestyle and he will fight it. Just keep up your good attitude and get on with your life. You made the greatest speach there. I love the whole boat analogy. Stay strong, be patient and don't let him pull out of his agreement. You are too cool.
Carrie

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

K said:
I think your husband is borderline abusive and you are cutting him entirely too much slack.
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I am replying by saying this: Borderline abusive, Well that is really interpretive. You, and or others may see it that way, and Yes, it is an abuse of the Authority he does hold as man of the house. But, this is more of an infringement of that he is taking, a taking me for granted situation more than an abusive one. I will clarify: When I was a child growing up, I was physically abused until I was age 19, actually the night before I became married, I was still getting "spanked", as they like to call it. It was a terrible situation, true. But my husband was a night in shinning armor, he rescued me and made me feel like a princess in a fantasy story book. We just celebrated our 13th wedding anniversary, and to this day, he gives me physically and emotionally the things in life that I desire. He is the BEST husband I have ever seen, I did not have the best role model to actually SEE what makes a good husband, but I always FEEL special around him. His one hang up is that he is old fashioned to a fault. I fault him here because I am worn out, work long hours , and yet the old fashioned side of him kicks in that says Only woman do house work. Yes, it is disrespectful, But to him, and how HE was raised, it is normality. What's NORMAL to one person may be abnormal to another.Partly because of how I WAS RAISED, It's HIGHLY important for me to FEEL respected, and not feel like a beat dog, like I did when I was growing up. Although he does not physically beat me, by NOT helping me when I need it, it beats me emotionally , leaving me feel resentful and ALONE. How can I be alone if I have been married for so many years to MY BEST FRIEND? Well, it's easy to feel alone when you see your situation as this: IF I DON'T DO THE SHOPPING,CLEANING,COOKING AND ORGANIZING, IT WON'T GET DONE BY ANYONE ELSE. This had left me feeling very alone.TO make someone like a husband who has no eyes to see my exhaustion, but only hear the voice of HIS past and HIS mom say that woman's work is ONLY the woman's, is hard to deal with. This is pretty much WHY I made this post to begin with. But, THROUGH posting, and THROUGH the advice and help I RECEIVED here, I was able to GET THE HELP I NEEDED, CLEAR MY HEAD AND MY HEART, AND CONCLUDE THAT I AM IMPORTANT! YES, I AM IMPORTANT. SO, what does someone do if they are important, they usually have and demand respect, if nothing else. So, all though he may or may not help me around the house and hold true to the AGREEMENT we have between us, I can have respect for myself, hold my head up, and calmly and collectively tell him what's what with out it turning into world war 3. I have had enough wars in my life. One way of respecting myself is this: I CAN NOT FORCE HIM OR ANYONE TO PERFORM FOR ME . Each person has his or her own path to walk. So therefore, I can only take care of my own actions and re-actions. To have a plan I find is the first step, not the last. I used to JOKE around with a comment I used to say, but it was just a joke and hard to follow through with, but now it is a statement of mine...I CAN ONLY DO WHAT I CAN DO, THAN I REST.....That's it, simply put, I don't have to put such high expectations on myself that I become frazzled to no end. I have made it known to my hubby and to my MOTHER IN LAW. I voiced this to show my BOLDNESS, MY LIMITS, MY RESPECT FOR MYSELF. I do not have all the answers, and may be definitely doing this wrong, but it's what I have for the time being. It's what I became after getting the support and help through posting here....smiles ;-)

Washable School Glue....yep, that's what I said.

Thanks....you made me smile ;-)

Washable School Glue....yep, that's what I said.