Student who was involved with Internet sexual abuse

oh pedophiles are not dumb in the slightest, their minds are wired to do whatever it takes to get what they want and children are what they want. Whether they were born that way or were sexually abused themselves, they get off by touching children and watching child pornography. It's sick.

The case I was involved in as a child, involved 40 girls, molestation and rape over a short time frame. The man, who was my friends father served about 5 years. my parents had met the family and approved, seemed like a really nice family, my parents were very strict and cautious. Even they could not prevent what happened. I hope the sentencing has changed since then, but I don't believe it's that bad.

That's just sick...

Why are people so obsessed with rape and violence?

Not to mention that case received publicity, same as this, I was in a small town, we the girls involved payed the highest price, most of the people in town new which girls were involved and let's just say, school following that was difficult. Now this case is receiving publicity... But how is that going to effect the two girls involved.. Publicity brings awareness, but hopefully it will not effect them too negatively.

Good points, Stumpy. The girl has a mother, but the father is not present, according to my school principal. This man/predator, did state to the police, that when he "gets out" he still intends to be with the girl because they are "in love."

The local police did travel to Mich to confiscate his computer, which will be very telling, I'm sure.

The 12 year old girl is getting much needed counseling, and I've been told to observe her, and report anything disturbing, but I'm seeing her start to be more involved, more responsive, so I hope this will continue.
Patty

Yes, well, in my homeroom, we've had several sessions about Internet safety, with this girl present. I even had three representatives from the court system come speak to the group about it, about the safety issues, about cosequences...very serious stuff, which should have made an impact. But I also know, with this group of students, I have several who spend substantial time on the computer at home in the evenings, some not even sleeping all night! Where are the parents? I don't know.

Interesting insights,Switch. Thank you.
About the friend who notified someone, a parent, I think. This reall IS remarkable that this particular girl did this . She is one tough cookie, from a very dysfunctional home, parents in and out of jail constantly. Knowing this about the friend, I was really surprised it was she who saved the girl from the predator.

Sounds like you know the story, Perna.

Yes, George, you're right, so right, about this man. I, myself, was unfortunately involved with a man, shortly after my divorce, who was in his 30's, who was capable of such a thing. There are some people without any social barometer, and this man seems to be of that nature.

LynnP...I think the reports are that the girl was not actually raped, but the man admitted to touching her inappropriately, being found by the police on top of her in the car. Had they not arrived in a timely fashion, who knows what would have happened to the girl, since the plan was for them to go away together.

I agree with you about responsible parenting. I've had both this girl and her older brother in classes.
They are highly intelligent, but socially awkward kids, loners, really. I suspect the mother has to work, and the girl has much time to be on the computer.

Roman...about the friend who reported....I don't think there will be any repurcussions whatsoever. I know this, from knowing both girls. As I stated in a previous post, the girl who reported this is one tough cookie.
The girl who was victimized by the man is not like that at all. She is a frightened, socially isolated loner. Just lucky the friend was there.

George said: He has to be very immature emotionally and mentally challenged to think that this "relationship" ever had a chance and then to still think it could work.

From my own exp with a similar man, I can guarantee what George says of this man is accurate. Emotionally immature and mentally challenged is probably the case. After my own experience with such a character, having observed his behavior, one time taking a sub teen to a motel and plying her with beer!, I can say there are people out there who are skilled at mimicking functional behavior while operating on a totally sociopathic basis. What the courts will do with this man is a mystery.

Personally I don't think kids should be allowed to use the computer unsupervised.
We had the computer in a place where we knew when our daughter was on it. This business of kids having computers in their rooms and using them at their whim is not right, there is way too much that can happen on the computer, too many dangerous things kids can be exposed to. And lets face it, kids, all kids are curious and can and often do explore, especially if their friends do it.

I kept my daughter so busy with horses she didn't have time for getting involved in shady activities. I had to bust my hump to keep her going but it filled up her time clock and actually made her more mature than other kids her age.

HOWEVER, my daughter still didn't entirely escape it as there was a teacher in her high school that was caught with an underage student. AND, my daughter was very friendly with this male teacher and I didn't know it. My daughter was devestated as the teacher lost his license and she blamed the girl. It took me time to get her to understand that this male teacher was the adult and should have known better. To be honest, it really creeped me out, I figured at least my daughter was safe at school.

You know many preditors are in surprising places, they carefully put themselves in situations where they can be around possible victims. ALL kinds of places, churches, schools, doctors, coaches, ALL KINDS OF PLACES and they can be quite charming.

My daughter was a very pretty young girl and men were looking at her and checking her out at a surprisingly young age. It REALLY bothered me. And when my daughter went into middle school, the girls there were dressed like sluts. That is seventh and eighth grade, that is around 12 and 13. I was so upset I went right to the principal.
And then going clothes shopping? Finding clothes that are ladylike age appropriate?,
it was really hard shopping for NICE GIRL CLOTHES.

Seeker, in your school at that age how are these girls dressing?

Honestly?, I think we send these young children the wrong messages with all the sex in advertising and things on TV now and even the music artists are a bit much in my opinion.

I am trying to look at the whole picture here, I think it is worse now then it has ever been.

Open Eyes

Yes, Open Eyes...It's a challenge to monitor the dress code! There is a lot of that to deal with, sad they way these middle school girls are exposing themselves.

I even experienced this with my own daughter, who is now a grown woman, but I remember when she was middle school age, and finding provacative clothing hidden in her closet! Middle school age seems to be the worst and most vulnerable time for such experimentation.

I also commend you on your stance re/the computer usage. This is what parents should be doing, as you say!
Patty

Yes, it is disturbing but can you see the whole picture? Ok, so this girl didn't have a father presense in her home either right? So was her mother dating actively in front of her? There is an example there as well, like mother like daughter sometimes. And who knows maybe the mother was using an online dating service too, so many people do that now.

When I was raising my daughter the students in her class that were in single parent homes were high in numbers. If that IS the case now as well, what ARE these kids seeing at home that we may not even consider?

We all see the age 12, well, what does that really mean now? We think of this age as a child who doesn't know any better but look at the constant messages they are really exposed to.

Honestly? I will never forget bringing my daughter to that middle school and seeing these 12 and 13 year old students that looked like high school students. The makeup, the clothes, the mannerisms, Wow, it was a shock to me. I am serious about the principal too, I went right in and sat down and asked if this was the high school and what the hell is going on? Oh, and the principal kept saying this and that is not allowed so I asked him, ok, so lets go stand in the hall so I can make sure your seeing what I am seeing. And he did and had to call students over in front of me it was rediculous. Don't parents look at their children? Don't you scratch your head and wonder how these kids could go out of their homes looking like this?

Ok, you said that you had people come into the schools to give serious talks about preditors etc. Right? I don't think these student were listening do you?

I honestly hate to say this, but sometimes an incident like this is good when someone actually gets CAUGHT because it forces students and parents to recognize YES BAD THINGS REALLY DO HAPPEN AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED IN OUR OWN SCHOOL. I am beginning to think that it is the only way people wake up and pay attention. And I think that is awful and very unfortunate.

I don't know Seeker, these kids are not as innocent as we think now a days, and it isn't their fault, it is all the stuff that is presented to them and allowed to be presented to them as well as how they are permitted to present themselves. My daughter is now 28 and that middle school was a while ago, so I cant even imagine what it must be like now.

Open Eyes

Wait,Dr. Skippy is it? I can't remember….

First you say:kids these days..

Then,you read:i hope the adult man gets the crap beat out of him in jail as he rots for the attempted statutory rape of a minor..& a whole host of other charges. predator. chances are when they go thru that computer they will find lots of other little 12 yr old children on it. she wasn't his first...but thanks to her friend she was his last.kids? really...

And you then say:Why haven't the schools taught children NOT to talk to strangers online?And: Although, on second thought, why DON'T they know better?

Well,uh…. didn't he understand about what sexual assault on a minor,P.T.S.D,Rape,and Predator all mean??????????

Then you clearly have read,from another member:That savage is to blame, not the little girl.

You further reply:what was she doing trying to meet a 30 year old man to begin with?

Huh? What was he doing with a 12 year old.I'm sure that's what you meant.Right?

Then you say:you have to be dumb as a stump to a) release your home address to a stranger online and b) get in the car with a 33 year old.REALLY!? She is TWELVE not four.

Hmm? What?! Idk who you are,or how on earth you got the name Dr. anything on this site….but,Hello,here's your strong cup of coffee friend,….Let someone even think about touching a child sexually,and I am around,and it'd be the last thought he ever thought before fully getting a grip on what happens when you,as an adult,entertain and further….pursue such a line of behavior.Because,if it was my very last endeavor on this rock I'd spend a week slowly and patiently teaching him what's wrong with what he has done.He's a pathetic dust mite on a flea from the back side of an offspring eating rat!I hope he's educated in pedophile school located in the deepest pits of prison!She is TWELVE.Had 12 years of experience on this planet.Do you have kids?Do you understand the limits of a child that age to make responsible assessments?Their ability to be swayed?Manipulated?It is illegal to even leave a 12 year old home to babysit an infant most places.Think about what all they are by law,not allowed to do.Their judgement is not developed.

Okay, for the most part I agree with you, but this, not so much. I'm sorry, I just can't let this one rest. I've had a lot of friends hurt because their parents monitored their computer usage, and "didn't approve" of things facebooks like, popular youtube videos, or public forums just like this one.

((EXTREME AND POSSIBLY TRIGGERING EXAMPLE)) A friend of mine (20 years old) has been DISOWNED because his mother found his porn files, which hadn't been properly cleared from the computer. He isn't aloud to be alone with his brother because he liked female twinsets stories, and is bisexual. I admit this is extreme, but seriously the guys 20 and it was erotica, and gay porn. ((END EXAMPLE))

Another friend, 15 now, has been hiding a fb account forever from her parents. She's STILL not aloud facebook, and her computer access is heavily monitored. I can see the affect it has on her; she's more willing to go behind her parents back now, where before she wasn't. (we've been friends since she was born, despite the huge age difference)

I know these are extreme cases, but I think kids deserve privacy. Not everything they look at is going to be liked by their parents. My mom hates that I look up D&D tactics, and even that I'm on this forum. She hates the games that I play, like Minecraft. Half my writing is "off limits" because my parents don't need to read the romances I write. But she stays out of it, and has since I was a kid. I think that's why I'm so honest with my parents is that they let me have freedoms like that. I wasn't aloud a lock on my bedroom, but I was aloud a computer, and to read, or play what I wanted. Sure they were worried about my safety, but they trusted me enough and taught me enough to know that if I was uncomfortable I could tell them, and they weren't going to limit my freedoms.

Unless I'd watched over 5 hours of TV a day after school... then I was just being unreasonable.

There's a balance to it. Kids need to get out and have fun and have a social life, but you also have to allow them freedom to learn who they are. I did so much exploring when I was a kid, and it made me a better person. It's how I discovered my sexuality, and my personal morals. It's how I drew lines for myself, instead of listening to the lines others wanted. It's actually where I learned to say no to peer pressure. I knew I was safe to do as I pleased at home, even if I was being monitored by friends at school.

Lastly, I really hope this girl isn't forbidden to play WoW. I know that's going to be met with a lot of shock, but it's not the game that led her to this situation, it was the people involved (including her). I can totally understand if she doesn't want to play, but I hope that is her decision, and not someone else's. I also hope that if she does want to continue to play WoW, she is more responsible. But I think she'll learn her lesson and I hope she still has the always-precious freedom that I had when I was home alone in my room.

>> Sorry if that was harsh, it's just that really set me off. Nothing personal OpenEyes. I also know all my eg's were of older people, but it's more the point of how far this can go, and how bad it can be.<<

I feel I should apologize to you seeker. I forgot for a moment that we were talking to someone you actually know, not hypothesizing on the situation. :/ I think a lot of people did.

I'm glad she's a tough cookie. The friend that is. I'm not surprised she was the one who called it in though, if her background is as you say it is. Her situation probably made it easier for her to make the judgement call.

I read in another of your posts that the girl is a bit of a loner... I can really sympathize with that, and it sheds a whole new perspective on this. That, personally, strengthens my belief that she was "looking for love" and didn't register this as "the wrong place" to get love. It's really sad though, that this happens... I hate to admit it, but I know her position. Admittedly, not from that age.

Either way, it's not my place to say. I would just encourage you to keep an open mind. I hope she is okay at the end of this, and I hope she is not abandoned by anyone or teased, because that will only make it harder.

((((((Seeker)))))) you are very strong, and this girl is very lucky to have you close at hand.

Switch, I think you make a lot of good points. I feel my parents raised me in a similar way. But here's my question... How do you raise a kid that way? I'm not honestly convinced I could recreate what my parents did. For them, it was just natural. What about for the parents where that's not natural? How do you find the balance between protecting yet at the same time giving freedom? How do you have talks to make sure your children understand what's right, what's wrong, safe, dangerous, good choices, bad choices? How do you convince kids to be honest with you at a time when they're rebelling, but still enable them to be separate individuals without the anxiety of leaving home when they get older? There's a lot of balancing going on.. how do you know you've got it right?

My thing with this whole issue is yeah, so this happened, but how can we educate future generations to prevent this from happening? I'm glad to know that the best friend isn't going to be ostracized, and also that people are watching out for the little girl too. I hope she's able to get the therapy she needs to feel loved and wanted. I guess what I"m saying is... Let's take care of the girl from this case, but at the same time, let's not ignore that it happened. What changes really need to be made so kids do listen when they're being warned about the consequences?? Maybe I'm too hung up on this aspect, but this type of thing really, really scares... Scares me into not wanting to have kids...

Seeker, how are you handling all of this?? I hope you are holding up well... This has got to be a tough situation for everyone, not just the people directly involved...

Switch, I am not offended at all. I understand your point of view and giving a certain amount of freedom. For some children that age and in their teens their computers are a way to socialize and explore, yes I can see that. What I did was provide my daughter with other ways to explore and also have mentors that were horse trainers and I brought her up from the beginning spending time with her every night reading to her, then we talked about the stories and that encouraged a connection of her being able to talk to me and ask questions etc.

My rules about the computer were a bit easier then it is now because computers are so small now and easier for children to have their own that is more portable. I didn't constrain my daughter, I provided her with other freedoms to fill the gaps and allow her to explore and gain some independance in other ways. And I did provide her with a very big activity that revolved around setting goals and achieving as well as learning how to accept failures and try again. And the activity, horse riding and showing forced her to have to learn how to communicate and engage others as well and be exposed to different mentor type individuals that were goal oriented people.
But I realize that what I did is not easy, I had to give up a lot so she could have this and she did know that as well.

I do realize that it can be hard for children these days and I did meet a lot of the friends my daughter had and they did not have the exposure she had and thier parents were not as involved with them either. My daughter also helped out other girls that had low self esteem whose parents didn't take time to relate with them and many filled that gap by coming to my home and sharing the horses/ponies with my daughter who helped them take more pride in themselves as well. But there was also a down side of plenty of girls at school that were jealous of my daughter and my daughter found it boring to simply sit and talk on the phone about nothing with many girls from school.

RomanSunburn, I hear you, it is a big challenge to raise children and guide them and protect them. Because of my own history I was somewhat hypervigillant over my daughter and I observed all the people she was exposed to as much as I could, And that included meeting all her teachers and I WAS asked why I came to see them as my daughter was doing fine in school. And my reply was "Because when my daughter talks about her teachers I want to know who is guiding and advising and spending time with her". I even did that when she went to college and I did tell teachers she had dislexia and how she learned as well.

Children are less apt to suffer abuse if a preditor knows a parent is watching and active with their child. I do know that while one of my daughter's teachers did cross a line with another student that was under age, because I did meet with him and showed I was a concerned parent, he didn't cross the line with MY daughter. The girl he did cross the line with did not have the care and connection with her parents so she was a prime candidate to be a victim.

It really IS a challenge raising a child now because they are exposed to so many adult messages about sexuality and in many ways they are exposed younger and younger too. And I am around a lot of young children, I see their clothes and they are getting more and more adult like as they have that more adult design that hints at the sexually appealing as well. No wonder why there are record numbers of depressed children and teens they are too overwhelmed in my opinion these days.

Seeker, I was wondering if these informative lectures about preditors etc are also attended by parents. I really think that it is very important that schools engage parents and become more connected to who the people are that are tending children outside the schools. Teachers are under so much pressure to produce children that are scholastically achieving on a higher level, but these teachers are not parents and cannot do much about what goes on in the family life of their students.

Seeker, I am sure for you this IS upsetting because you are personally involved with this child and in that alone, it can be a very personal upset. And this is your child in some ways too, one can't help but become emotionally invested with the students they work with day in and day out.

Open Eyes

Thank you, Switch, for being so thoughtful, but I wasn't offended by anything you said. And you are very insightful about the girl being a loner. She truly is. Today, as I was supervising the noontime recreation, I saw her walking alone (kids were walking around the track). All the other kids were in groups, or one or two friends. I felt sad to see her like this, but she has always been this way, and it is just more noticeable now. She is intellectually gifted, very high IQ, and that also sets people apart. I can see, though, that she is trying to socialize. Just this morning, she said two whole sentences to me, trying to tell a funny story to which I responded in kind. She has never said a word to me before, though I have had her for two years now, in homeroom, and art class. I believe she is getting some intensive counseling right now, and I hope it helps her.
Patty

ok ban the computer..but what about the cell phone? can't you get to some of these programs just as easy on the phone?

i think there has to be a level of trust on both ends...

look as kids we all bent the rules...true? over something. not everyone made curfews, was totally honest, did everything by the book to our parents letter of the law 100% of the time all the time.

trust. goes both ways.

kids learn by testing boundaries. parents bend...you have to know which battle to scream & yell over & which ones to talk about.

ban the computer/ in today's world how is a kid supposed to do their homework? encyclopedia britannica? (just saw it is folding & not being printed..so very very sad)...& honestly if everyone is on line well then you create yet another monster by totally banning it

i think you as a parent do the best you can. take interest, get involved, have the computer in a common room, etc..but at some point it comes down to trust.

Oh Seeker that is so nice that you responded to her, I am sure she is very lonely and confused, I hope that the teachers will comfort her and respond kindly to her. This child truely deserves support right now, not isolation and that can happen with the other kids thinking she should be avoided or is bad somehow.

Open Eyes