Marriage Counseling

"..Same job for 18 years never missed a day work in 26 years never unemployed,never had to want,new home not sure of your expectations but apparently U had a real bad experiences.I only had a couple few maybe at best problems besides my kids issues,I am were I am now because my kids issues I am old school my bad just the way I am I can't change that and have no want to even try."

1tash1,

I've got to say, I agree with eskielover's comments about how your wife learned a while ago, to leave the relationship emotionally to protect herself. Your sobriety of 3 months is good. After 18 years of being a functioning alcoholic, 3 months isn't very long at all though. It takes time to re-build trust.

Personally, I grew up around functioning alcoholics (my dad, and uncle in-law). Both were "happy drinkers", not the angry type, thankfully. But, my dad had an affair with a woman & my uncle molested me several times ~ all of the while both maintained high paying technical and supervisory careers.

My dad finally put drinking in his past, but it did take a while for him to re-build trust with my mom. My uncle in-law got killed in a freak accident while leaving a bar years later. He tripped down the stairs and fell against the iron hand-railing. It entered his jugular vein, causing major bleeding & he died one week later.

Sorry if my post hurts or angers you ~ that's not my intention. My hope is to get you to see from the other side of the bottle. Some pains caused in alcoholism cause a lifetime of suffering to the innocent. Like your daughters, who likely picked up on the tension and caused them a lot of confusion, ambivalence, and fear.

Does that make better sense to you now?

I think I can see 1tash1's side too tho -- He says that his wife wasn't emotionally HONEST -- and that can be a hard thing to swallow when you didn't realize it and you have to hear it in the counselors office. All of a sudden she hits you with all this "stuff" that you didn't know!! I mean, that can HURT.

How is HE going to trust HER??? Anything she says, he's going to question! So SHE has some trust to earn back too! It's not just HIS trust that has to be earned. It's her's too. She's not blameless here.

There's a lot of work to be done on this marriage. She made a LOT of mistakes. She's hurt him a lot -- if she had been HONEST with him, things could have been easier. Don't know what the point was in basically lying to him -- what did that accomplish?

1Tash1 -- I know you're disheartened, and are ready to give up, but I don't think you really WANT to. Are you going to keep up with the counseliing? What does your counselor say? Does the counselor advise you two to divorce or to keep trying? Don't give up yet. There might still be hope if the wife would just get and STAY honest!! God bless. I'm on your side! Hugs, Lee

Not sure if my side counts Leed same as my home,my life is no biggy I getting ust to all this.Is all me ..............

There are always 2 sides to every situation & they both count & need to be heard in order to honestly deal with the situation.

Just like my husband did things that got to me even before we got married & my good judgment was not to get married to him.....but common sense & listening to what my mother had to say about the fact he would grow up & be responsible when he had to. He believed that all he had to give to the marriage was his career & because he gave that, it made him responsible.....but there is so much more to being resonsible.....it's how we react to difficult situations & take responsibility in handling them, not hiding from with with alcohol or in one's man cave.

Every side counts in a marriage & if a marriage is ever going to be successful both sides need to be listened to.....but one can't just hold onto their side because it's their side.....it takes growing & compromising & working out the difficult things.......for both husband & wife if you really truly want a successful marriage.

My husband refused to make the necessary changes.....& I refused to continue to tolerate the things that I could no longer tolerate.....which meant that I refused to change either. Sometimes a marriage gets to that impass & there is no way to resolve it.....but I believe that a good effort on both parts needs to be made in the first place before giving up. However, I don't believe in staying together because of the kids.....sometimes the fighting & the drinking (even if you feel you are functional with it) effects the kids whether we want to admit it of not. I know that the fighting in our marriage had a great effect on our daughter but there was no way that the fighting could have been stopped either given the situation. Would have been much better for our daughter if we had been divorced long before I finally left which was long after she graduated & moved out of the house.

Yes, there are always 2 sides in every marriage....just like there is definitely my husband's side to ours........all we can do when we hear one side is either imaging what the other side might be given what is being said from the side we hear, or side with the side we hear.

Given my thinking, I always tend to try to see the possibilities of the other side.....that's just me.....if nothing more than to make sure that the one side sees that there are the possibilities that there is another side that isn't looking at things in the same way.

But to have any relationship work out, both sides need to be equally represented & respected & understood for there to be any possibility of reconciling or really making the relationship successful in the long run.

I agree!!!U are right eskielover , I am totally bad and need to give up, I not worth the effort after 23 years I get that always my fault I am terrible a drunk and so on.I trying to hold on to what I have built but obviously!!!! I have made to many mistakes in 23 years,I get that I want to please but at my age lol wow I have older kids.I tried I really think my wife is over me and wants me out ,I was told from a friend to get a disalostion.

1tash1 YOU ARE NOT TOTALLY TO BLAME!! You're just worn out!! Don't let your wife get into your head and stomp around! She's trying to break you down so that YOU will take all the blame. You are NOT all to blame, remember????

She was NOT honest with you!!! You had NO IDEA how she felt emotionally, remember??? You had to hear it in the counselor's office!! How can you have a marriage when one partner isn't being honest??? You did everything you COULD for that family, yet she wasn't being honest with you. Evidently even tho you did everything you could, it wasn't enough! What MORE did she want -- BLOOD??? You build her a new home, she had everything a woman could want -- yet it wasn't enough.

Are you SURE she doesn't have someone else?? I would sure be wondering about now. You've broken your back for this woman, yet she's not satisfied. How come? You've done every single thing she's asked of you --- but she's not happy. Why? When she says jump, you jump. She wants more-- ???

Seems to me it's time for HER to make some effort in this marriage, don't you think??? You've been giving 200% since this whole thing started and she keeps wanting more, yet she hasn't given very darn much --- she keep complaining. YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM AT THIS POINT. You've PAID for what happened. You've shown her that you're 100% committed to making this work. YOU ARE worth the effort, and you are NOT bad!

Don't run yourself down anymore. You couldn't try any harder! If the marriage fails, it will NO be your fault. God bless & take care my friend. Hugs, Lee

You didn't read what I wrote either.....I said there are always 2 sides to every situation.....there is your wife's side which we haven't heard & there is your side which we have heard. When there are marriage problems, both have some part in the fault of it's problems. Like I said in the other thread however, escaping into alcohol because you don't want to deal with the problems & the issues that come up in every marriage is not only NOT a way to resolve problems in a marriage, but it's also not a way to show yourself as a responsible husband.

Don't kid yourself......having a new home & have your husband go to work & come home & hide in his man cave & drink because he doesn't want to be a part of the decision making process for the difficult things that come up in a marriage, ISN'T giving the wife everything she could ever want in a marriage......having a responsible husband who shares in EVERY decision & EVERY problem that comes up in the marriage rather than hiding from the difficulties is really the ONLY thing that a wife wants or NEEDS in a marriage for it to be successful.

Don't be kidded into believing that with in 2 weeks you could have possibly earned any trust back from this situation......You are NOT bad.....but you have made some very bad choices in your marriage that will take longer than 2 weeks & a lot of family councelling to prove any change in that area & earn your trust back.

A wife can see when the husband is honesly wanting to make the changes & putting REAL effort into those changes.......by complaining about having to make the choices you are now having to make & having to do the things that the court is now telling you you have to do while complaining that you no longer can escape to your alcohol in your man cave.....shows a red flag in my radar screen.

You also commented in your other thread that it's possible that your wife had been honest but you were so wrapped up in yourself that you didn't hear what she was saying:Remember, you have no reason to call yourself a bad person.....just because we've made bad choices & our behavior hadn't been what it needs to be to help build a marriage into a good working relationship, it doesn't make you a bad person.....I would bet that you never learned how to be a good husband from your own parents......that doesn't make you bad.....it just makes you unskilled in the things necessary to make a marriage work....& I'm sure your wife's skills in making a marriage successful have their own area of weakness & inability.....it takes 2 to have a successful marriage....husband & wife......but you can't run away from responsibilities or decision making situations like you have already said you have done......that first of all HAS to CHANGE if you really do want your marriage to be successful.....it takes work....you can't be lazy about it or give up if you really want the marriage to work......once that gets resolved......then the rest of the marriage needs the serious work on it to get rid of all the bad interfacing skills that have been used for so many years......it's too easy to fall back into the bad ways of handling things & it will take a conscious effort on both parts to see that the necessary changes of each person continue to change & improve & function.

1tash1,

I think that you've misunderstood what eskielover and I were trying to point out to you. Neither of us were stating that you're a loser and need to give up. We did not say that you're a terrible drunk and everything is your fault.

I was merely pointing out the way I saw things as a child through my teenage years. I didn't even bring up my thoughts and emotions to everything! Honestly, your self put-downs response to our posts has stunned me. I feel as though you're being passive-aggressive with eskielover and I, which is fine if you are ~ we all have our "issues" to push through in life. But, if that isn't your intention, you may want to watch how you word things in the future a little more carefully.

We ALL make mistakes throughout our lives. Hopefully, we grow emotionally, take responsibility for our actions, and work hard to be as good as we can be. No one can ask for anymore than that.

You have older kids, which can be positive. You can sit down with them and have adult conversations. It isn't too late for growth and forgiveness within those relationships. Like I said, it may take time, but it isn't too late.

Try not to rely so much on what other people tell you to do with your wife. Perhaps you should see an individual counselor to help you discover what you really want and expect from your wife. Continue with the marital counselor, and be honest. If you're feeling as though everyone is blaming you for ____, share that in the office. You can bet that the counselor will go over that topic with the both of you to give you both a better understanding.

If I didn't care about you and your family, I wouldn't keep coming to post. Lengthy posts, at that. My aim is to help you see through the big bunch of trees surrounding you.

1st off I want to thank each of you , it really helps to get multiple opinions on this, I want all your help to try an save my marriage if you all have the time is well appreciated ,in my really messed up right now life.Going to post my wifes side what she has told me in the last couple weeks. SHE SAYS: I take everything worst case possible,I be little her,I treat her as a daughter not a wife,my family values are terrible,I cheated on her 16 years ago,I have ocd on house being in order,I talk money cost an what has been spent,my mother does all my banking,everything is in my name,I have no relationship with my daughters,my sex drive is to high,she not aloud in my accounts unless she asks me 1 st,she not happy with her self so there no us till that changes,there's not another man or relationship,she had to quit her full time job cause troubles with are 13 year old missed to much work she went to part time(she worked by choice)she left me recently for 2 days not sure how to react yet she went against my wishes to Virgina beach to drop her 2 sisters kids off with all are problems at home left me with kids,(she has 10 brothers an sisters that could of helped not just us),The hard alcohol made me real short with everything was real moody,I am sorry and tired will post more later.............

I write this for you and every other alcoholic who is putting his or her family through hell. Stop kidding yourself that beer isn't alcohol. Many alcoholics drink nothing but beer. They're still alcoholics. The scars I carry from my brutal alcoholic parent's words are deep and permanent.

Alcoholic? what is it sober minded that ok or not? if I have a couple or is it any? I am confused some people say if I have 1 beer in evening I am a total alcoholic 1 beer please lmao,honest I drink beer with dinner usually have 1 or maybe sometimes if it is real real hot out I have 2 before dinner then I am done,maybe on weekends I may have couple more if we get company like her family or mine that does drink I offer them 1 and usually have 1 with them,is that a alcoholic if it is I am bad,I drawing line on this beer kick you all telling me about.I did forget to add I chewed tobacco for 30 years I recently quit 6 months ago that might be some of my mood swings maybe not all got to do with a beer you think>>>>>>>>>> Well anyway are marriage counseling is going to 2 times a month come this Tuesday I for see it to help us alot better my fingers are crossed.I am really going to try,talk my side this time so maybe will not only be 1 sided.Maybe with my wife gone a couple days she may feel better some, I guess,I just left chat rooms here at pc and ask what should I do about my wife going against my wishes,surprisingly many said nothing let it go,I am nervous she be home real soon,not sure what to do..........

So how much of what she's saying here is accurate about the way you are running the marriage?
I'll be interested in hearing more of what she has to say when you get more energy.

I'm reserving my comments on my feelings about this since you have more to add. I'm sure she wouldn't be claiming those things unless they are true about the way you are handling the accounts.

I believe that there's a lot of stress in your household right now. It probably was a good thing (for both of you) that your wife left with her nieces for a few days. Not a huge amount of time ~ just a little break in the tension. I'd recommend that you try to look at it that way and let it go.

Do share your feelings in therapy this week. That should be very invigorating for you. Just remember to follow the rules, respect space & don't swear every other word. You'll do just fine. Therapy is work for everyone involved, try to remember that.

Ok here we go I been having alot problems posting keeps timing out or something.ESKIELOVER gonna try again Well the personal issues are easy, who doesn't take everything personal but my problem !!! I take it personal with my kids, I know I shouldn't do that ,is just man it hurts so bad and I try todo everything I can for all my daughters and it seems to bit me in the arse ever time ,that is why my wife says I am to personal. I be little her over finances I assume cause she has made some terrible mistakes early in are marriage that really set us way back as a couple, the trust I had for her went out the window, she agreed that my mom could help us with that issue,prolly cause my mother belled us out so we wouldn't loose are home, I am guessing.This 1 is easy why I treat her like a daughter simple, she is acting like a child not my fault she wants to argue with my children about anything and everything like little kids,ok might be my fault when my oldest was 5 below around wife had her friends over to are house I caught her mistreating her for no reason and I lost my cool went off bad said no way no one will ever miss treat any of my blood ever, really embarrassed her in front of her friends, I didn't care it was my daughter I was to protective.

Ok my family values are bad!!!! I get that cause she has 41 grandchildren in her family wouldn't have a clue why I wouldn't want to go to all that excitement my wife has 10 brothers and sisters drama drama drama Ok here's the kicker I haven't missed anything in a couple years but have in the past, I was bad I would do anything to not have to go to all that, was crazy!!! I was from a family of 4 not my fault,I really got uneasy at all the big crouds wasn't me never was from the beginning of are relationship.Ok this next one is sad, I truly regret it to this day,we was only married think 7 years at the time,I got raped from an older women, I couldn't resit at the time my wife was 6 months pregnant did not want a thing in the world to do with me, nothing at all she acted as if she hated the site of me being around her all the time,OK TRUTH IS I WAS YOUNG AND DUMB NO EXCUSE.

Ok this one is easy I have OCD on house being clean,when I don't see corners in a house I feel I am a dirty person, way I was raised sorry !!! I will never change that,I have seen houses with roaches when I was younger, I am petrified of any bugs or anything in my house scares me bad when there isn't some kind of order, things have a place ,all I ask is put them in it,her family can function with 2 feet of cloths on the floor and trails through there houses.MONEY easy ,we are lower class, took me years to build my credit(she destroyed early in marriage, well I let her I should say I trusted her with everything before she was ready) ,were I could support my family and make everyone here wishes come true or at least satisfied,we to this day drive vehicles no less then 3 years old,kids have top cloths, out there looks well to do but it isn't, it is watching how we spend and what we buy.My mom and father are the only family members we have that would help us early in are marriage, we went to them for everything as far as money,cause I pay everyone back no bull sh@t,her family was divorced and would never ever help us ever, we even asked ,her mother was rich to me ,what she made but would never help us ever at that time.Ok I really not have to explain why everything is in my name cause I am the stable one here the only one that isn't on meds to cope, I come to pc to cope, opps and drink a couple beer to cope ,can't leave that out,never missed a day of work since I was 15 unless sent home cause I was sick ,not that I wasn't there,I was to responsible I guess.My wife messed her credit up she did not pay her bills,until she got put in jail over a 17 year old debt she had when she bounced checks,but we all make mistakes when we are young in a marriage.

Ok relationships with my daughters my oldest completely destroyed myself an wife when she made her bad decisions when she turned 18, ran off with a boy when we stressed what she should have done an went to collage with her trade she won regionals an state went to nationals placed within 10 in the nationals and far as I can see she throwed it all away so far with that boy and her drugs they both enjoy.Ok I am scared to get to close who wouldn't be afraid,I went with my oldest to marchial arts she has her black belt we was totally close I did everything to make sure she was ready for the world, she had job car ,bank account was perfect I thought,total beat down she did nothing I teached her at all. NOW my other 2 I love dearly an spoil bad I admit,before was keeping my distance cause afraid to get hurt like I did before ,do U blame me my god I prayed I did everything got beat up by what happened when a child does opposite of what U have raised them how would U feel.

Sex drive ok not to sure about this one she tears me up at least 4 times a week.Unless she is pms,it all went south why not sure,she not touch or even act like she wants anything to do with me tears me up bad,I trying to stay focused but is tough, I keep trying to behave cause I have never went with out it, guess I not going with out it, I can have it ,I have to do it by my self ,she just acts like get ur done if U must not cool can't take that much longer, she needs to show some some affections, I not say it but I know she not stupid either.She not in my accounts totally explain in my 1st couple posts that 1 no good with money at all.Hate Her self she has tried to do her self in before ,with chemicals ended up with a heart problem from doing stupid things,I think,she is a little over weight ,medium build to me, I never say bad things in that perspective ,I not like skinny ,I from the south.I really can't explain that one, she would have to,might be cause I looked at porn alot before back then not sure ,I lost on that one sorry can't explain. She told me she isn't having an affair an there is not another man,I trust her I feel she would never do that to me,not going to talk much about that.Are 13 year old has adha or something like that she just got diagnose, wife had to go on family leave at her work cause we decided was easier for her to miss work, then I ,was decided between both us I think not sure now sense we in are problems but thought was both us,she went part time was tough on her bills,she worked by choice didn't have to but made it alot easier on all us if she was working.If I missed anything let me know please,told U all I have terrible issues help if U can not very good here for me.

It sounds to me like you have done all you could for your family -- you obviously are committed to them 100%.

But, I do think you could ease up on a few things. You said you were "OCD" on some things. How about TRYING to ease up on the housekeeping a LITTLE. I mean the house does NOT have to be "sterile." LOL Do you have any idea how HARD it is to keep it in the shape that you're asking? Especially when there's KIDS in the house -- and your wife is working! So what if she doesn't HAVE to work -- maybe she is tired of staying home cleaning that darn house! LOL She might want to get out among people!! I'm NOT saying to let the house get filthy -- but let the KIDS help clean it too!! They aren't prima-donnas ya know. Get them to vacuum, dust, scrub and whatever needs doing. They need to learn how to keep house too. Wife doesn't have to do it all.

The house NEEDS to be in your wifes name. What if something happened to you? Then the house, etc., would have to go thru probate and that would take forever and it would be a lot of trouble for her. If her name is on it, it would just plain be HERS and she could do what she wanted with it. Same with the accounts. Granted, you don't want her draining the accounts, so put her name on it as Mr AND mrs -- not Mr OR Mrs. That way you BOTH have to sign to withdraw.

But some things you're going to have to ease up on just as SHE is going to. AND NO you're not an alcoholic if you're just drinking a couple of beers. But remember that it's not how MUCH you drink -- it's what the alcohol DOES to you that matters. If it changes how you act, what you do, what you say -- then you have a problem with it.

There's things she has to change, like how she feels about her SELF. You can't do that for her --all you can do is change things about YOU. So stop totally stressing out about everything. Some things you just can't change, my friend. All you can do is change YOU and how YOU react. God bless and keep the faith. Hugs, Lee

1tash1,

I am totally confused. Are these last 4 posts aimed at anyone in particular, or are they thoughts that popped up in your head. And then after posting, another point that you wanted to make popped up, etc.?

The most understandable post, to me anyway, was the last one about your daughters. You have 3 daughters ~ and the oldest made some dumb decisions for herself which disappointed you. Right? Sadly, that experience isn't uncommon. There are a lot of happy, decent families out there where one of the kids experimented a bit too much and changed their lives significantly. It's sad to see that happen ~ it really is. Personally, I would always keep myself open to re-developing a relationship with that daughter, but there would have to be rules agreed upon upfront. If she were to break the rules, she would have to leave.

Maybe you should re-think how you're raising "spoiled bad" girls. In my experience, I had to work for everything I got. Had to buy my food, clothes, car, insurance, college education, etc. It did make me appreciate those things a lot more than others who just got what they wanted, whenever they wanted it. I tried hard, got a high GPA and worked hard to keep it up throughout college. I'm NOT saying that my parents did a great job, believe me, but I do believe that having me paying for my own car and education saved them a lot of heartache.

I waited until I was a little older to go onto college ~ I think I was 25 y.o. I got grants and a p/t job to help me through my junior year. I took my first and only loan in my last year of college, and spent all of my time focusing to keep my GPA up ~ and give myself more options when going for my master's degree. That's my experience.

okay 1tash1,

I think I get what you're saying here as well. Your sex life is understandably important to you, but she routinely says "no" or gives into your desire (sort of) by allowing you to have your way. You are feeling ____, and you should feel free to ring this important topic up in counseling. It does take 2 to tango, and it's a lot more enjoyable when both partners are involved in the experience.

My ex-hub and I did work with a sex therapist, for a little while, a couple of years after we got married. That was due to my discomfort, as I was SA'd in my childhood. Years later, I still have a hard time every now and then. I need to feel emotionally loved, and not just be a "lay". I cannot accept that.

I have no idea whether or not this is an issue with your wife, but it certainly is for you, so you need to talk about it. You're going to have to accept that some changes will be slower to change than others. Maybe the both of you agree on a couple of topics, that would be nice & reassuring! You also can expect that it would be most healthy to have both of you changing your expectation levels of one another. Maybe one of you needs to loosen up on sexual demands, while the other needs to speak up to get emotional needs met.

Does that make sense to you? Hope so! Best wishes to you and your wife.

Thank you for going into more explanation on the things your wife had to say about her side of the issues.

It does sound like you had some very valid reasons for keeping her out of the financial end of the marriage......I am sure I would have reacted the same way......as a matter of fact.....I sort of did with my husband after we separated.....& I felt he was completely incompetent of handling anything....I took over everything from 2100 miles away.....so I can understand since your wife messed up the finances that bad, it was best to keep her out of & off of everything with her bad credit reputation.

I agree with Shez about not giving your kids everything & thinking they will appreciate it rather than blowing if all off & going their own way.....seems the more kids are given the less they appreciate....not always....but so many cases that's how it goes. I know my parents had no money.....I had to pay for my own college...went to junior college first before transferring to the local state college so I could live at home & just commute rather than being able to live on my own. Home wasn't good, but I rather put the time in on my good GPA so I could graduate with higher GPA than waste money. Think that giving your kids all the name brand everything so that they look richer than they really are isn't necessarily a good way to teach strong values.....just my personal opinion from examples I have seen.

I can understand wanting your house to be clean & neat....I always wanted my house to look like a model home....but with 2 engineering career incomes, it was easier being able to hire a house keeper.....but I know when I lost my career & my husband started taking my being home for granted & just throwing his things down & expecting me to pick up after him.....I quit doing everything & let the house go to hell because I was angry at the way I was being treated.

I know that like I did with my reaction to the way I was being treated can sometimes get into a down hill pattern where it ends up tearing the relationship farther apart than doing any good. Treating your wife like a child for the way she interfaces with your kids may just be one of those poor choices of how we treat our spouce because of a very negative feeling we have toward their actions.....doesn't change the action, but makes the situation worse. Life can be difficult that way because we feel, we acct without thinking of the consequenses or how we may fine a better way to react that could actually get the changed results we really wanted rather than just reacting.

Sounds like some of the things at the start of your marriage on your wife's part & your own part were made up of poor choices......wondering if you both ever processed through those, of the walls driving your marriage apart started being built at that time on both sides.

I can honestly say from my own experience & the experiences of others I have talked to in my life.....that when there are bad feelings between husband & wife.....it ends the sexual feelings especially on the wife's part.....when we feel no feelings of love.....we are not willing to just have sex....because it makes for the feeling of being a prostitute....whether being paid of not....but not wanting to have sex without the feeling of love between the 2 people....is the way the wife expresses that there is a serious problem in the marriage that either needs to seriously be resolved of "it's over". I know when I realized that my marriage was over in my mind....that was the end of any relations I had with my husband also even though we ended up having to live in the same house for over 10 years that way.

This may be a crazy idea.....but it might be good to print out all that you have written on this thread & take it to your marriage counsellor......it definitely holds a lot of information on the issues in your marriage from both sides & is a good source of all that your marriage counselor needs to help you work through......something they can read & maybe figure out how to go step by step to help repair it.

Like I said.....both sides have a serious responsibility in the failure of a marriage......I will even agree to that in my case & not blame my husband completely without some responsibility of my own. I am sure your drinking has done some major damage for the last 8 years.....but I'm sure her financial irresponsibility that hasn't been fixed has done as much to damage the marriage also.....because you haven't been able to have a real marriage where the both of you are the responsible ones for your house payments or your bank accounts even though you've been the working person along with wife's part time job.....not being able to work together on finances & working together on goals.....definitely takes away a major part of the marriage team work that bonds the marriage together.

I did have to chuckle about your comment on how large her family is & how small yours is & it's hard to deal with......that's exactly how I felt being an only child with absolutely no family because both my parents were only children & my grandparents only had a brother each. When I went to my husband's family home with 4 kids all talking to me at the same time.....I almost went crazy....head spinning & had to just get out of there as soon as possible.....definitely understand your explanation of your experience with such a huge family get together

It sounds like you both have so many equally responsible issues coming into this problem time of your marriage that a marriage counselor would do you the best.....also, you might for fun just want to watch the movie Fireproof......& look at "The Love Dare" which comes out of the movie as a way to work on a failing marriage.....If you truly have a desire to make it work....that might be a wonderful place to start along with your marriage counseling.

I think also, I would stop the drinking all together. Know that you might slowly come off of it so that you don't have problems.....but I think that being able to think clearly & not having any alcohol impairing your thought process would be a good idea at this point....also won't give anyone an excuse to say there's a problem.

It takes both husband & wife to want the marriage to work....but maybe if you really show your wife that you are able to be the husband that you haven't been while hiding in your whiskey for those 8 years.....everything else might just being able to start turning around also.....sometimes one has to take the first step.....then everything else can start to move.

Wishing you all good this this....know I can be tough at times.....think there are definitely issues in those areas that need to be worked on. Remember, successful marriages are partnerships that work together not against each other on both the husband's & wife's part & when we both make judgment mistakes....it pries the marriage apart even wider.

Thank you all very much, is so hard to express the way you really feel ,on PC site has been grate and very good on a learning experiences and very very good wisdom from all ,I look up to any advise good or bad, you all really showed me to think both sides, when it was always mostly 1 sided.We went to marriage counseling Tuesday, believe it or not I did open up my feelings an got teary eyed, I made my wife in tears really hurt me bad to see her like that, I felt so destroyed for doing that when she got upset, afterwards I believe it really helped myself especial, not to sound conceded or ****, I have been so freaken miserable ,I actually felt alot better afterwords,we talk short on the way home was ok not bad,as we got home we had family counseling as well wow both at the same day really set things in a spinning,but in a forward motion to me that was much needed in my part. Family counseling was grate went very well myself and my wife was tight together on issues same feelings agreed on everything was real nice to be on same page,good positive feelings for both us after are marriage counseling.

Ok are marriage counseling section was hard very scary for me,but I found out I was over ruling,king of my castle ,my way or no way, I was a bad husband for alot of years I accept that statement ,I have been trying to see my wifes side on everything and how she got to this point,bad part is I can see it,how everything got bad.We as humans take life and lives for gran-it we all do it 1 way or another not meaning to or even trying to is just are alls nature,I know now, we all really don't know ,what we have, until it is lost or gone, that is so so sad cause 100% of all us wants to be happy and in love and respected and cared for, want to fill full filled inside,my approach is on both sides for the rest of my life,I will never be ,my way again,we will discuss ever issues as it may come forward to us as adults should all do.The problem is men and woman actually have different languages ,I have learned through this hole issue I am going through with my wife and also my daughters,I have been a avid reader through my tough times to cope instead of all man caves and beers.John Gray rocks I would advise anyone to read his books very good relative books for family issues. And also Eskielover I love U and Leed both thanks an Shezbut HUGS TO U ALL

I'm glad to hear that your marriage counseling was such a wonderful opportunity to open up on both sides & really get things out in the open......wonderful thing is that you see the things that went wrong on both sides & are truly willing to work on the things that are your responsibility to make the marriage work...sounds like your wife is taking the same responsibility on the things that she needs to work on.

It's important to keep going to the marriage counseling.....some of those behaviors even though you know what to do have become sort of a learned behavior....& while working on the changing so that the new behavior becomes the normal one....it's good to keep going to the marriage counselor so that they can keep working with you on the difficult areas.

Really glad to hear that things are looking up. I know that my husband's comment was that it was the way he was & those kinds of things can't be changes.....which all studies have proven him wrong....but his stubborn thinking doesn't care that there are any proofs of his thinking being wrong....he was right & he would fight to his death on being right.....can't ever make a marriage work with those kinds of attitudes.....so it really makes my heart feel good that you are taking such a positive attitude & action toward your marriage....just wanted to let you know that.

Impressed with your thinking & ability to think through your situation & willingness to work so seriously & truly caring about your wife & allow your emotions to come out without hiding them......that openness is definitely one thing that is necessary in making a marriage work.

Will be looking forward to hearing how things are going in the future. I'm glad that you were able to open up here at PC.....that is the one thing I truly appreciate about PC also is that one gets to view all different thoughts & opinions about how people see situations.....& the blend of all, come together & really help us open up our views on the issues we struggle with.

Take care & hope to hear more on how things are progressing with your marriage & with your children in the future.