[This1]

To start off with, my wife and I love each other very, very much. But we have several really big problems we're facing, and I'm completely failing at feeling optimistic about it. I worry that we're going to wind up separating, although neither of us wants that.

The problems:

Sex/Intimacy

We have very different feelings about sex and intimacy. While I recognize that others feel differently, and I'm happy that it works for them, I really don't want to share our sex life with anyone. I don't want there to be any kissing, making out, or having sex with people outside of our marriage. It seems like that's not the classic male viewpoint (and that impression on both of our parts does complicate things), but I really want it to be just the two of us. Fantasies are fine, and fun, as long as they are only fantasies. But, when it comes to the thought of her having sex with someone else, I freak out. And her kissing other people would make me really upset and jealous. I don't really like that I feel this way, but at the same time, I kind of feel like I have a right to my feelings. I've explained that if she gets drunk and makes out with one of her girlfriends, it won't be the end of the world. She'll have to deal with me being upset, and I'll probably ask her to give me her word that she won't drink as much when she's out without me, and try to avoid letting it happen again, but it's not like I'd leave her for it or ban her from going out with her friends or anything. And all of that seems pretty reasonable to me. Though I do also dislike that I am so closed-minded about this.

[Point of clarification: I don't want to be sexual with other women, but I don't feel as strongly about it as I do about her being sexual with other people.]

My wife, by contrast, feels that sex and kissing are not necessarily important, and are just fun things to do, unless it's with me. She says she really can't understand my feelings about them at all. It doesn't make any sense to her. We've talked about it, and she has said time and again that she respects my feelings and is okay with allowing them to define our relationship, and so I thought everything was fine. But now, she says that it feels like I don't really love all of her. We talked tonight, and she pointed out that it's a really important point to disagree on so thoroughly. And, she said that the fact that it would be a really big problem if she ever acted on her own feelings rather than mine, makes her feel like there is something wrong with her for even feeling the way she does. And, again, that I don't really love all of her.

Trust:

I've had a lot of trouble trusting her, because early in our relationship she broke up with me after having a short, very emotional fling with my best friend. Then, a few years later, she broke up with me under the influence of a friend of hers who wanted to start a relationship with her. We eventually got back together, but only recently have I started to really feel like our new relationship was a separate, different thing from our old relationship, and that I could really trust her. I feel like my failure to trust her is now pretty much a thing of the past, but that's a pretty recent change.

However, I've given her some reasons not to trust me recently. Basically, there have been several times recently that I said something, usually that I was okay with something, and then realized later that I was wrong, and that it did bother me. I think I've been pretty good about not blaming her for doing anything wrong, and just letting her know that I was bothered by it after all, and that we should now act like it does bother me. I've explained that to her, that there are some things that bother me sometimes, but not others.

For instance, the above subject. We were talking a few months ago, and I actually got really into the idea of bringing in another woman (I find that much less threatening, and much more appealing, than another man). We actually agreed that it could happen, someday, as long as it was only in instances when we were both involved. It was something we never expected to come up, but.... But then, a week or two later, my mood shifted, and I started to feel jealous, and the idea bothered me. Mostly, things like that haven't caused any huge problems directly, but it (very reasonably) makes her feel like she can't trust me. We do feel differently, in that she thinks it's just as bad as lying, and I don't, but I agree that it's a problem. I just don't know what to do about it. I don't know how to be completely sure that any feeling isn't just momentary, and I don't know how to earn her trust back. In a way, it's worse than if I were lying, because I can't just decide to stop.

Conclusion:

There are some other things, I'm sure. I suffer very erratic moods, and she has been diagnosed with depression in the past, but has never had really successful treatment. But those above are the big ones that came up in our discussion tonight.

We both love and care about each other very much. She can't imagine losing me, she says, and I feel pretty similar. I feel like, if we did split up, we'd both be very unhappy about it. But, at the same time, she said tonight that she's unhappy with our relationship because of these things, and talked like she was largely staying with me because of our baby.

I'm not willing to stay in a relationship "for the kids." From my experience with my own family growing up, I feel like that's bad for everyone involved. She knows I feel this way. So tonight, I told her that I want to do everything we can to fix our relationship, because I love her more than anything else in the world and can't imagine living without her. But, if we can't find a way to be happy with each other despite our differences, I'm going to leave. Because I won't stay in an unhappy marriage. And if I'm going to leave, I want to do it soon, because our little girl is only going to get more attached to me over time.

I'm getting set to start contacting marriage counsellors on monday (we really can't afford it, but I feel like fixing our marriage is the most important thing we can do, so we'll just have to deal with it). And I'm reconsidering, trying to figure out how I was able to feel okay with the idea of her kissing and even being intimate with someone else when we talked a few months ago, to see if maybe my feelings can actually be changed somehow. I am definitely very jealous of the social and sexual freedom I'm used to seeing society bestow on women (I'm a college-aged kid, so I likely see more of that than the average person), and I'm also jealous about her tendency to attract people, so there may be something there that I can work with. Especially with the help of a counsellor.

Still....
Actually, after talking all of that through, I feel a little less hopeless than before. Like, it still seems like a long and difficult process with a low chance of success, but it seems just possible that, maybe, there is some way to reconcile our feelings. I'm really not happy that I may be the one who has to give up all of his viewpoints in the end (that seems like bull****). And I really wish that she could at least understand why I might feel the way I do, so I could feel a little less like a freak for it. After all, I really can see the logic and appeal in her feelings, I think. But, maybe the counselor will be able to help with those, if there's a little leeway to work with. Maybe it's a little too early to start packing my things up.

Thanks. This (very long) chance to vent helped.

[Leed]

Hello "This" and welcome. It sounds like things are a little more complicated than they need be.

This is only my opinion, but I've been around a lot longer than you have so I can see things a bit more objective. What I've seen thru the years is this. In the 60's, everyone was "free" with their love. People slept around with everyone. In the 70's things got a little tighter -- people still slept around, but not as bad as in the 60's. In the 80's marriage became a little more important, and the 90's thru now was the same.

BUT -- whenever you have an "open" marriage where husbands and wives are allowed to experience other partners just for fun -- the marriage NEVER survives. One or the other partner finds another, and they get divorced and someone remarries. This ALWAYS happens. An "open" marriage is a HUGE mistake. So if this is what your wife is advocating, then you might as well just get divorced right now because it's NOT going to work.

You are very SMART to get a marriage counselor -- and i hope and pray that your wife listens!! I hope she's as "open" to the counseling as she is in this "open" marriage! She may hear things she doesn't like. But that's good! She'll probably hear some statistics that aren't good -- but she'll probably figure they don't pertain to you two. Unfortunately they DO.

So again I say that it's a bad idea and if she wants to keep it up, you may as well just get a lawyer right now. I wish you the very best. Please take care of yourself -- and God bless. Hugs, Lee

[avlady]

I agree with Leed, and that is exactly what happened to those people in open marriages.

[Confusedinomicon]

"Open" marriages and multi-partners can work, but it takes two partners who have deep trust in one another and don't get jealous easily.

To be frank, the fact that you're feeling jealous about it and don't want to see it happens is enough to warrant separation if both of your views don't align. I think its different if both partners go into the relationship with the same expectations and those expectations include an "open" relationship. It doesn't work if one person wants it and the other person doesnt because it means one partner will most likely not partake in that behavior which will increase jealousy.

It's bad to use generalizations because they are misleading. I do agree with Leed that the counseling should help make things more clear for both of you.

[hamster-bamster]

You are very wrong when you want to get out before the daughter gets too attached to you.

You should realize that she needs to be attached to you. It appears that if you were to split up with the wife, the daughter will stay with the mother.

So you will need to build a bond with the daughter while not living with her.

You should already be spending some of your time thinking about ways in which you will build bond and attachment between father and daughter.

Your views on kissing diverge because views oon kissing are intrinsically subjective.

Your daughter, by contrast, has an objective need to develop a strong attachment to her father.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by This1

I am definitely very jealous of the social and sexual freedom I'm used to seeing society bestow on women (I'm a college-aged kid, so I likely see more of that than the average person),

What do you mean by that? How can you be jealous of a freedom? I have never seen the adjective "jealous" used the way you use it.

Originally Posted by This1

I'm also jealous about her tendency to attract people, so there may be something there that I can work with. Especially with the help of a counsellor.

So I do not watch TV. I therefore do not have Comcast, because Comcast is a bundle of internet and cable and I do not need cable.

I have Uverse which is a bundle of landline phone and internet and I need both.

So I am letting you know that her being attractive to you and her being attractive to other people may be a bundle. Only time will tell.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by This1

Trust:

However, I've given her some reasons not to trust me recently. Basically, there have been several times recently that I said something, usually that I was okay with something, and then realized later that I was wrong, and that it did bother me.

For instance, the above subject. We were talking a few months ago, and I actually got really into the idea of bringing in another woman (I find that much less threatening, and much more appealing, than another man). We actually agreed that it could happen, someday, as long as it was only in instances when we were both involved. It was something we never expected to come up, but.... But then, a week or two later, my mood shifted, and I started to feel jealous, and the idea bothered me. Mostly, things like that haven't caused any huge problems directly, but it (very reasonably) makes her feel like she can't trust me. We do feel differently, in that she thinks it's just as bad as lying, and I don't, but I agree that it's a problem. I just don't know what to do about it. I don't know how to be completely sure that any feeling isn't just momentary, and I don't know how to earn her trust back.

This whole thing makes absolutely no sense. Does she expect you not to have mood shifts and to be sure that every thought or feeling that ever occurs to you or comes to you will stay with you forever?

She ain't going to find any human to fit her requirements.

[Odee]

I have to second what Hamster said about your daughter. You don't want to leave your daughter before she gets to attached. You seem to imply that you will remove yourself from your wife's and child's life if you can't work it out with your wife -- but that is not fair for your daughter! What happens between you and your daughter's mother is not something that should take her father away from her.

Other than that, I think that a lot of your feelings are natural and extremely reasonable and you should know that you are likely in the majority for your thoughts on this issue.