[Djinn8]

Might end up being a bit of a long one.

I bumped into this girl a while back on a field trip. She was friendly, chatty and I thought she was cute. It so happened that at the time I was starting up a sculpture workshop and she showed interest, so I asked if she wanted to come along. She passed her email on to me and told me to get in touch.

A few weeks later everything was up and set to go with the class, so I sent her a message telling her it was on. She got back to me and said she would be there as well as adding me on Facebook. How she managed the latter I don't know? I never use the site so there's no info on me there and my Facebook pic is just my name and a picture of my eyes. I mean it has my surname, but she didn't know that. So she could tell who I was by the color of my eyes? Odd.

...ah whatever, it's not important.

Anyway, I looked over her profile and there were lots of posts in her history lamenting that she doesn't have a boyfriend and how she would really like one. Ok...

So the workshop comes around and goes well. We talked a bit and we get along well. At the end of the class she starts hanging around at the door, and I got the impression that she was waiting for me to come and walk with her, but I was busy sorting out payment with some guy, so I just waved her goodbye and she reluctantly walked away.

A week or two later I'm walking through this community center and having a nosy through a window and I spot her. She spots me too and starts waving like a mad man. I smile and wave back.

I started thinking that I should ask this girl out, but it seemed like every week I never got a good opportunity to talk to her on my own. It started to bother me so I tried to put this girl out of my mind and made an account on OKCupid, only to spot her on that site too. I sent her a message that was a bit jokey and a bit flirty, but ultimately saying that we should hang out together some time. She got back to me saying that that would be cool, but it's hard to tell if it was sincere or just been polite so as not to rock the boat.

More weeks pass and I've still not had a good chance to ask this girl to spend some time with me outside of the class. Then my sisters 30th birthday comes around and she tells me I can invite a guest. I figure, well this is it! And I plan to invite her out the next time I see her, but of course there's no good time to ask with all these people around.

At the end of a session I figure I'll walk and talk as we leave. I start hanging around by the door (role reversal much?) waiting for her to pack up. But she just sits there, sort of waiting. After a few moments I started to feel awkward so I just waved and left. Outside I lit up a cig and waited for her outside. She comes out a moment later and waves good bye, heading off at a brisk pace. I tried to match her step, but I got the distinct impression that she was in a rush, or even possibly trying to outpace me. Honestly, it felt like she knew I was going to invite her out and she wanted to avoid the situation, but that might just be me being paranoid. Anyway, I never got the chance to ask and went home feeling lousy.

I was sat at home feeling bad that I missed my chance and I thought "no I'm not going to let it end like that!" and sent her an email inviting her to the party. She gets back to me saying that she had plans to go out, but her friend wasn't responding (she made a point of mentioning that this friend was a guy), and that "she'd think about it".

Next morning there's an email saying she's not going to make it. I shrug it off and go to the party on my own. A few days later I check her Facebook page (and felt like a creep for doing so). She's the kind of girl who seems to post everything she does on there, but there's no mention of her going out, so I think she just stayed in the day of the party. In all honesty, I think she might have felt a bit anxious about coming anyway, which might explain things (or not *shrug*).

Next week comes and I was a little concerned that she might not turn up at class, but she did. It was a little awkward at first. She opened the door and I waved and said hi, but she didn't respond. She then greeted everyone in the class and I said hi again, but she just gave me silence a second time and found her seat. The awkwardness didn't last long however and ten minutes in we were nattering away like usual. She didn't ask how my party had been and I didn't ask if she had been out. I got the feeling that it was an awkward topic and we both seemed happy to ignore the fact that I'd asked her out at all.

At the end of the class a few other people said that they were going to go to the nearby cafe for lunch. I turn to this girl and ask "Are you coming?" She looked a little caught off balance and says she's got to go shopping, so I frowned, said "That's a shame" and left.

So that's where things stand now.

To summarize, things that are bothering me are:

1. I like a girl (always a confusing emotion to deal with).

2. I don't know what she thinks of me? Half the time we get along great, but then she 180s and it seems almost desperate to make sure that she's not alone with me.

3. It's interfering with my class. A lot of the people I teach are mental health sufferers who come to socialize. It's as much a part of my role in the class to involve them and make them feel at ease as it is to help them with the creative process. I'm not able to do that when I'm spending all my time chatting with this girl while everyone else sits around dodging tumbleweeds. I can't seem to help it though, we just seem to fall into it easily.

Penny for your thoughts...

[Maria38Divine]

Hi DJinn,

The first thing that comes to mind is: leave her be, maybe she's playing hard-to-get, testing you perhaps. If you're really interested in dating her, maybe you can ask her to meet with you right after class, and express your feelings then (that you want to date her). If she dodges you again then leave her alone and try to find someone who is mature enough to be honest/open about what they want.

[Djinn8]

Originally Posted by Maria38Divine

Hi DJinn,

The first thing that comes to mind is: leave her be, maybe she's playing hard-to-get, testing you perhaps. If you're really interested in dating her, maybe you can ask her to meet with you right after class, and express your feelings then (that you want to date her). If she dodges you again then leave her alone and try to find someone who is mature enough to be honest/open about what they want.

Thing is, I'm not very experienced with this sort of stuff. I've been single for a few years now, but before that I was in a relationship with a girl for about 6 years. Before that I was in another relationship for around 5.

In the first case I met this girl, we went looking for an off-licence together. She held my arm as we walked. Next day I called her up and asked if she wanted to come to my house and hang around with me and my mates. She came around. My mates went out for a bit. I asked her if she liked me. She said yeah and then we had sex.

Second girlfriend: my mate called me up and asked to come around because he had a couple of girls over. I arrived and straight away this girl was all over me, telling me I was hot and asking me to kiss her. I did, then she came back to mine, stayed the night and then every other night for 6 years.

Not exactly good learning experiences to get around the whole dating game is it. I mean, is that the best way to go about it - to just be blunt? Thing is, I take rejection really badly, so I'm kind of scared to be like that. I tend to pussyfoot around and try to spend time with a girl, hoping that she'll see through it and either make the first move or give a clear sign that she wants more than just a friend. I don't really know how to handle mixed signals or uncertainty.

[hvert]

I wonder if she found you on Facebook using your email address-- or got your full name by googling with the email.

You've asked her out a few times, but it sounds like you haven't given her much notice -- so it's hard to tell if she said no because she was truly busy or because she just doesn't want to date you.

I might wait for her to show some sign of interest before asking again. She knows where you stand. She has declined a few times, so it is up to her to make the next move.

On the other hand, contacting her via OKCupid and saying 'we should get together sometime' and then not following up for weeks -- that could make her think that you aren't really interested.

The next time you ask her out, make sure that it is a few weeks in advance and specific, like getting together to go to X restaurant two Thursdays from now!

[waiting4]

I agree with hvert, and add that in the beginning you mentioned she seemed very interested (in having a bf in general and you in particular) as in, her 'waving like a mad man' and also seemed eager to talk when you emailed/messaged. Then, by your own admission 'weeks went by' because the timing wasn't right???? Nahhhh....you just weren't able to take her aside and talk to her (ask her out). Weeks going by means she probably figured you weren't interested after all. And she was hurt.

Which explains her keeping her butt planted in the chair when YOU waited outside, and then bolting when she did get to the door and saw you still waiting. She was, IMO, hurt and in punishment mode / self-preservation mode. Then when you DID ask her out...she was full on into punish/preserve and said 'maybe' (really? it was never gonna happen) and then blew you off, pretty much how she felt you'd blown her off.

So then, when next you meet in class, she's still chilly-bear....until she finally warms up because, she DOES like you after all...and the convo goes pretty much per 'as usual'. Which leaves you confused, and worried you're not attending to the other classmates because you're so obsessing over her.

Oh, and I agree...even tho the other two gf's were long term (5 and 6 years respectively) meeting them and bedding them on the same day is not condusive to learning how to build a lasting relationship with someone you recently met and haven't bedded.

What to do? Well, you could just leave her be, as has been suggested. You could email/message her and TELL her that you have been wanting to go out with her but it seemed you never had the opportunity, and you'd like to know if she is available to take on a proper date--you kinda blew the 'hanging out' thing by being so distant after suggesting it, sorry. I understand your fear of rejection, and actually think that's what kept you from persuing her more enthusiastically before, but if you want to go out with her...you're gonna have to take that chance.

Good luck to you!

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by waiting4

I agree with hvert, and add that in the beginning you mentioned she seemed very interested (in having a bf in general and you in particular) as in, her 'waving like a mad man' and also seemed eager to talk when you emailed/messaged. Then, by your own admission 'weeks went by' because the timing wasn't right???? Nahhhh....you just weren't able to take her aside and talk to her (ask her out). Weeks going by means she probably figured you weren't interested after all. And she was hurt.

Which explains her keeping her butt planted in the chair when YOU waited outside, and then bolting when she did get to the door and saw you still waiting. She was, IMO, hurt and in punishment mode / self-preservation mode. Then when you DID ask her out...she was full on into punish/preserve and said 'maybe' (really? it was never gonna happen) and then blew you off, pretty much how she felt you'd blown her off.

So then, when next you meet in class, she's still chilly-bear....until she finally warms up because, she DOES like you after all...and the convo goes pretty much per 'as usual'. Which leaves you confused, and worried you're not attending to the other classmates because you're so obsessing over her.

Oh, and I agree...even tho the other two gf's were long term (5 and 6 years respectively) meeting them and bedding them on the same day is not condusive to learning how to build a lasting relationship with someone you recently met and haven't bedded.

What to do? Well, you could just leave her be, as has been suggested. You could email/message her and TELL her that you have been wanting to go out with her but it seemed you never had the opportunity, and you'd like to know if she is available to take on a proper date--you kinda blue the 'hanging out' thing by being so distant after suggesting it, sorry. I understand your fear of rejection, and actually think that's what kept you from persuing her more enthusiastically before, but if you want to go out with her...you're gonna have to take that chance.

Good luck to you!

i have to agree with your assessment of the situation, you are dead on.
i was going to reply earlier but for some reason i could not find the right words( heh..imagine that!)
but that's ok..you got it done! good job! hee hee

[Djinn8]

I just looked at her Facebook page again. Her last post was: "Met a cute guy in bar last night who looked like Gerard Butler, but didn't find the courage to approach him. Why can't I find a nice guy! #singleFor4Years"

So this is the way the world is? Girl want guy and a meaningful relationship, but hopes to find it by hitting bars and gaining the attention of the handsome PUAs looking for a pump-n-dump. Meanwhile, guys she knows in real life are not worth the effort or overlooked. I'm no Gerard Butler in the looks department, but then damn, is that the competition these days - people who look like models, then everyone else? #FeelingBitterAndIgnored

I'm going to give this one last shot, then put her out of mind. This Friday I'll be seeing her in class (hopefully). I can't ask her out in front of people, so my window is really small. Basically it's as we are leaving. Once we're outside I tell her to hold on a moment and that I want a word with her. Then... I don't know? How should I go about it?

[hvert]

Why make it hard on yourself? You don't need to ask her out in person. Send her a private message on Facebook with a specific date request-- or if you have her #, call her.

[Djinn8]

Originally Posted by hvert

Why make it hard on yourself? You don't need to ask her out in person. Send her a private message on Facebook with a specific date request-- or if you have her #, call her.

Ok, that sounds like a plan. Doesn't put her on the spot. Might make things a bit weird the next time I see her if she says no, but then there's a risk in everything I suppose :/

So before I send her a message it'd be good to get your opinion. How does this sound:

"Hi, I've said it before, but you're someone I'd like to know better. Call me an admirer, I suppose. I've not really had the chance to talk to you alone however, though I've tried to reach out to you a few times without much luck. I wanted to try one last time to see whether you'd like to come and have a drink with me? If you're not interested and just want to be buddies from art group, then that's fine. I'd rather not have to do that though, so if you're free one day this week it'd be really nice to spend some time with you."

[Bill3]

It's interfering with my class. A lot of the people I teach are mental health sufferers who come to socialize. It's as much a part of my role in the class to involve them and make them feel at ease as it is to help them with the creative process. I'm not able to do that when I'm spending all my time chatting with this girl while everyone else sits around dodging tumbleweeds. I can't seem to help it though, we just seem to fall into it easily.

This is a problem. When does the class end?

[Djinn8]

Originally Posted by Bill3

This is a problem. When does the class end?

It's up for review in around six weeks, but it's proving to be both popular and financially viable so it'll pass the review and it'll go on as long as I can find the time to run it.

[unaluna]

Arent you the instructor of the class? Maybe you should wait until the class is over? That would be weird in america if there is a big age or power difference. Also, to me the note sounds a little self-centered, in that "youre an admirer, you dont want to do that". I would delete those and say rather what you have explained here, namely that you seemed to have got your signals crossed.

[healingme4me]

Just trying to place myself, in her shoes. ..

When the initial sparks flew, you mentioned various reasons, that you were too busy to approach. Now you are her instructor, which has an ethics undertone, in dating. Then, she turned down being invited to your family event. And, there's been no follow through at various junctures.

No guarantees, get her number, and set a solid date, like dinner, with at least a weeks advanced notice.

[Bill3]

My suggestions would be to make sure that your personal interests do not affect the overall functioning of the class, and also to make sure that you are on solid ground with regard to whatever ethical standards there may be about interactions between instructors and students in your setting.

[Djinn8]

Calling me an instructor is a bit of a stretch. My class is more an adult social group than anything else of which I'm the founder, group leader, staff liaison, and the most experienced in the subject matter. I'm not paid to do it, so there's no real ethical reason not to pursue another member of the group.

I sent her a message anyway. If she gets back to me with a "thanks but no thanks", I'll just forget about the whole thing and tell her that I had to ask so I don't have any regrets. I'm just a bit worried about making things awkward between us.

[hvert]

At least now you will know one way or the other! I hope she says yes

[waiting4]

Originally Posted by hankster

Arent you the instructor of the class? Maybe you should wait until the class is over? That would be weird in america if there is a big age or power difference. Also, to me the note sounds a little self-centered, in that "youre an admirer, you dont want to do that". I would delete those and say rather what you have explained here, namely that you seemed to have got your signals crossed.

If you read what he wrote you'll see he said HE was the admirer. That's how I read it.

That said...it's a little stalkerish...I'd still lose it.

[waiting4]

Originally Posted by Djinn8

Ok, that sounds like a plan. Doesn't put her on the spot. Might make things a bit weird the next time I see her if she says no, but then there's a risk in everything I suppose :/

So before I send her a message it'd be good to get your opinion. How does this sound:

"Hi, I've said it before, but you're someone I'd like to know better. Call me an admirer, I suppose. I've not really had the chance to talk to you alone however, though I've tried to reach out to you a few times without much luck. I wanted to try one last time to see whether you'd like to come and have a drink with me? If you're not interested and just want to be buddies from art group, then that's fine. I'd rather not have to do that though, so if you're free one day this week it'd be really nice to spend some time with you."

Dunno if you sent it yet, but lose the parts bolded and send it.....it's perfect.

good luck!!

[Djinn8]

Originally Posted by waiting4

That said...it's a little stalkerish...I'd still lose it.

Really? Ah... that's unfortunate. I already sent it. She's not replied yet which is making me anxious and regret saying anything at all.

[Maria38Divine]

I dunno, am I getting old or something? To me, texting/emailing just seems so impersonal when asking someone on a date, especially in the early stages of a potential relationship (unless you've just met through an online dating site). Anyhoos, I hope she recognizes your effort to be clear with your intentions and answers soon. The waiting for a response part is never easy. I can almost feel your anxiety. Fingers crossed for you, Djinn.

[Djinn8]

It seems like she's not going to get in touch. Every other time I've sent her a message, she's gotten back to me within a few hours. This time it's just silence. In know that she's been on her computer too because she's been posting on facebook.

What is wrong with girls these days? She's more than willing to hit the bars and give her body to some stranger that offers her flattery and lies for a one night stand, but not to give a few hours to build a connection with someone she knows. Then she goes and laments that there are no good men in the world and how she's losing faith in ever having a boyfriend. Don't you think that's a bit twisted?

It's going to be so awkward at class now, assuming she comes. Honestly I think I'd be happier if she just stopped coming. I don't see much point in being friendly with a person who's making a point of not being your friend. It'd make running the class a bit easier for me too, even if I'll miss talking to her since she's my favorite member of the group.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by waiting4

Dunno if you sent it yet, but lose the parts bolded and send it.....it's perfect.

good luck!!

That was what i meant. I admit i am a lazy typist!

[Maria38Divine]

Originally Posted by Djinn8

It seems like she's not going to get in touch. Every other time I've sent her a message, she's gotten back to me within a few hours. This time it's just silence. In know that she's been on her computer too because she's been posting on facebook.

I feel for ya, Djinn. Just take things one day at a time. There's still the possibility she may answer you. It's early days yet. Just try not to let this situation consume your thoughts too much. I know what it feels like to have emails and calls go unanswered. You just have to make a special effort to not dwell on it each time it crosses your mind. Distract yourself with other students in the class, try to develop a greater rapport with them. It may help you re-focus on others, who are just as important, and gradually reduce the awkwardness you may feel if she turns up. Don't ignore her though. Still be calm and approachable.

[waiting4]

Djinn8....if she doesn't respond, don't sweat it, and like Maria says, try not to let it consume all of your attention. The easiest way to maintain the 'usual' relationship you two have now, is when you see her in class (assuming she returns) just act as tho you never sent the email. Don't mention it. If she does, you can respond, but until or if she remains quiet about it, then file in the special place reserved for lessons learned, and move on.

I know you're probably a little hurt because of the lack of reply, and perhaps I didn't read your earlier posts well enough but I don't know if you were referring to THIS girl when you talked about 'she goes to bars...one night stands' etc. I don't recall you saying that about her earlier, as if you had, I would not have recommended you even trying to date her as if your opinion of her is as low as it reflects by those statements, then dating her is going to be problematic on a host of different levels.

If those words said only mirrored hurt...I understand. But turning hurt into comments of dismissve distaste is probably not helpful, nor fair to either of you.

Take care.

[Djinn8]

Originally Posted by waiting4

If those words said only mirrored hurt...I understand. But turning hurt into comments of dismissve distaste is probably not helpful, nor fair to either of you.

Your right. I was just getting stressed out. The stuff I said wasn't necessarily true. I think she's simply heading down that route, but not having much success. She's not riding the cock carousel or anything.

She messaged me back as well. Said she just wanted to be friends and asked if I wanted to go to a gig with her. I told her that was OK and would love to. She got really excited then, like she didn't expect me to say yes

So yeah, got a date this friday (probably), though just as friends (which I don't mind - her company was what I wanted, not her body).

So a happy beginning I hope