Unreadable Intentions

Perhaps she is simply conflicted over her attraction to you and the fact she is married. Maybe not. It IS a fact, however, that she is married and you are not.

If it were me, I would back off....her relationship with her husband must resolve itself one way or another without outside complications. Treat her as a casual friend...nothing more.

I thought I was agreeing with you sophiesmom. I was just trying to explain I wasn't engaging with her, and that it was her doing the engaging. Im just tying up loose ends to get closure.

And trying to loosely explain that although, I have to reluctantly accept it is flirting, even as exciting as it sounds, I keep hoping it isn't because, it would be simpler and easier to deal with!

You know, we know an answer to be true but we wish it wasn't so look for anything we can do and any other way to look at it rather than thinking potentially badly of something you have respect for?

I hate the idea that a married woman and a single man can't be friends. I think if your friendship increases beyond what you have with your other friends, then that's time to panic. I see men saying "If my wife even talked to another man I would...". No. Where's the trust? The love? Maybe Im naive. I love and respect all people. But that doesn't mean Im about to jump into bed with anyone.

When things get weird, that's the time to re-think.

To me, the fact she is married is irrelevent. I know some wonderfully warm married women and Im so happy they're in my life because they enrich it so much. I feel like one of the girls and guys. There's no difference to me.

The fact she is acting weird is relevent.

You're right about backing off, and that's exactly what I've been doing these past few months. I'm tying up loose ends, seeking closure, treating her as a casual friend. Im being polite, formal, courteous.

I thought I was doing Ok and had this all sorted, until she sent a message saying I was missed from the lunch. I've really given her nothing. And every so often she comes up being friendly, causing me to rethink, to doubt myself, to ask, have I got this right. That's why I came here, because I didn't know.

I've got to learn to deal with this, while she's still blowing hot and cold, and maybe longer, learn to say No and probably have even less to do with her.

I do agree about backing off because I've done it already, and I agree about not complicating her marriage even if her conflicts are all self made.

It's just heart breaking because, she's been very kind and inspirational to me, and I don't want to think of her in any way negatively. That's an issue for me, why, because I can't help but being friendly and wanting to be there for everyone and help. Maybe it's some cave man instinct, but I have this instinct to be loyal and protect. I actually get upset when people won't let me help. But in this case it's probably doing more harm than good.

>>I hate the idea that a married woman and a single man can't be friends.<<

They CAN be, and I suggested as much when I recommended that you treat her as a casual friend...NOTHING MORE. Be friends, but avoid any appearance of impropriety.

But you qualify it with casual friends. Why not good friends? Yes in this case, less is probably more, but in general, good friends are just as possible. As long as you're not meeting up regularly and focussing on her dining out every week or something pretending you're "just good friends".

I agree with sophiesmom in that this lady is flirting. I disagree with the rest, though - I do not see her as conflicted, afraid of reciprocation coming from you, etc. After everything that you have written, I think that she is flirting with you because it is fun for her do that. You do not present any danger to her married life - she simply likes stirring interest in you. This can go on for years - this kind of teasing. Plus, she is older than you, so her flirtation has this flavor of "my little boy" to her. The simplest approach for you is to accept that this relationship is a little weird, is casual, as someone above noted, and would not go anywhere - it would stay in this teasing and somewhat opaque phase. Do not try to help her or offer help unless she asks you to and do not spend all your waking hours trying to figure out her intentions. To me, her main intention is crystal clear - she wants you to spend all your waking hours figuring our her intentions because it is fun for her; so far you have obliged.

I'm really not sure what responses you want at this point... maybe at this point your just takling it all out loud, and that is fine , really.

I feel you have been given advice from every angle that is possible as to her motivations and your reactions.

Why not just take a step back and not over analyze it all and let some time pass? Sometimes situations can be thought to death, know what I mean?

Good luck

Because "close friends" between members of the opposite sex, one married-one not, hints at a level of intimacy that would be inappropriate, given the circumstances.

Remember...avoid any HINT of impropriety.

Bingo.

It's true what I said earlier though, it's obvious what is being said is true. I just don't want to believe it for reasons said earlier.

I think what I said earlier, perfectly explains why Im having a hard time accepting it - it's not because I don't believe you all.

"It's just heart breaking because, she's been very kind and inspirational to me, and I don't want to think of her in any way negatively. That's an issue for me, why, because I can't help but being friendly and wanting to be there for everyone and help. Maybe it's some cave man instinct, but I have this instinct to be loyal and protect. I actually get upset when people won't let me help. But in this case it's probably doing more harm than good."

I simply don't like thinking badly, or negatively of people, or treating people one way and thinking another. I have no integrity then.

That's more about myself than it is about her. So that's probably something I need help on.

Firstly I would point out my question was why can't a married woman be GOOD friends with a single man, you've replied with "close" friends. Is a close friend closer than your regular friends? Why can't a single man have a friendship with a married woman on the same level as his other regular friends?

You talk of hints of inappropriateness, but that to me is like gossipping and making up stories behind closed doors. And I always wonder, well, why is this restricted to man and woman? There are other sexualities - why don't we have a problem of a single man being "close" friends with a married man?

Either neither is acceptable, or both are acceptable.

Of course, I've just read "given the circumstances", and yes, I would agree, as previous, in these circumstances, I need to get out my chalk and draw a line on the ground and tell her not to cross it.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. You don't have to think negatively of someone. It's a choice. At a very basic level, you are confused by her actions. There's no judgment required in that. It's not anyone's fault.

You could choose to let this situation go simply because you don't understand her actions. There's nothing wrong with her, there's nothing wrong with you - you just don't click in the way you might like to.

I have good male friends who are married. No one is saying that it is not possible. They are saying that when there is a hint of impropriety, it is not possible/advisable. If a married person flirts with another person or a single person flirts with a married friend, there is that hint of impropriety and it's better for all involved to end the relationship. It applies to all sexual orientations where mutual attraction may be an issue. It doesn't apply to a single gay man and a married straight man because there's no opportunity for mutual attraction.

>>>I would agree, as previous, in these circumstances, I need to get out my chalk and draw a line on the ground and tell her not to cross it.<<<

No, no, no. YOU are the one who should not "cross the line", in your responses to her, REGARDLESS of what she may say or do. Don't allow her to manipulate your expectations beyond a casual friendship, or you will likely pay a price.

Thanks hvert. I suspect I might be slightly OCD or something. In that I always have to know how things work, why are things as they are. I can sense myself saying "Why? But why?". To accept things, I need to understand.

But again, that's more about me, that it is about her.

D'oh. Yes, forgot about that. A married man isn't gay. Good point.

I felt slamjammer was coming at it from the other angle, not to be good friends to avoid any hint of inappropriateness... But you're saying as I also believe, that if is best to end something if there's any hint of inappropriateness. Chicken and Egg. Which came first.

Thanks.

But but but. I know this already. Im not crossing the line. No intention to cross the line. Im not at all concerned about me. But for my own sanity, I need her to stop crossing the line because I simply can't deal with it.

She does not owe you any concern for your sanity. You cannot control other people's actions. You need to learn to deal with trivial situations without overblowing them out of proportion. Somewhere above on the thread, a few posts ego, you mentioned OCD and the compulsion to know exactly how things work. I do very much realize that it is very hard to overcome some of our natural tendencies, but one can refocus them. If you have a tendency to know exactly how things work, that would be an asset in any kind of pursuit, occupation or endeavor that does not involve sentient, thinking beings. Why does the Moon not fall on the Earth? Why do seasons change and leaves turn yellow and then brown in the autumn? What would happen if you drop a new iPad on granite floor? Etc.

But not with people. Not with animals.

This situation has brought to the fore how the OCD tendencies interfere with social relationships and interactions for you and how your confusion over other people's motivation, intentions etc. has a tendency to occupy your mind for extended periods of time. These tendencies must be originating somewhere deeply at your core, which is visible throughout the thread, because every approach tried on the thread by people who have responded to you has been met with the same kind of very cerebral resistance, insistence on your needing to understand another person's frame of mind and/or guide another person's actions, and, cerebral again, tendency to overgeneralize, and, again, insistence on generalizing broadly from this one little incident. You would not yield even a slight bit to any suggestion to back off, relax, take a break, etc. So reread the thread and observe how well-meaning people have become exasperated with that insistence of yours - the material would be fascinating and helpful to you if you use it right, to your advantage. Basically, the situation, however trivial, has revealed something very important in the setup of your mind - something that is not trivial at all - and that setup is BOUND to interfere with those future relationships of yours that will have the potential to be non-trivial; to be rather important. If you get a girlfriend and start dissecting everything this way, ad nauseam, she will eventually pack up and go without so much as saying "adieux".

Moral standards are unique to the individual....they are not universal.

And the definition of "engage" implies more than one person. Otherwise it's just an attempt...one you can ignore according to your own moral standards.

Eh? She sends me a text, or invades my personal space to talk, you want me to ignore her?

Maybe our wires are crossed on this one and we have different definitions of engage.

"ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS".

Perhaps if you read the entire answer and take a moment to consider you might benefit a little.

Once again. Good luck.

Re-read. I say she engages with me, you essetially say it takes two to tango and I can ignore her interaction according to my own moral standard. Actually at the base of it, you're arguing the meaning of engage and advocating being rude according to "moral standard". Maybe Im missing something.

Yes you are missing something.
I would attempt to explain, but I will not engage you further.

Which according to your logic you can't do if I don't respond, and as you had no idea if I was going to respond to you, you must be being sarcastic or in error.

You've made little attempt to explain aside from repeating yourself.

So thanks.

You have gotten 5 pages of questions ,answers and replies... Have you gone back and read all of this from start to finish?

Maybe that would be of help to you.