Boundries (not set)

It has been my experience when a person with a PD or traits (and I have traits) sets boundaries it actually a cover up for avoidance and/or pushing away behavior no matter how sincere the person may be, the core reason ends up being the inability to address a difficult matter is reasonable way. And the use of the word boundary gives avoidance and push behavior a pass.

Now that said there are many reason for a person not having conflict resolution skills or not being able to simply express what they do and do not like. Those skill are taught in childhood and develop into adulthood. In fact there is an entire industry that has been built for the work place dealing with such matters.

In healthy relationships a boundary is not associated with drama or conflict. A person simply has innate boundaries that they carry with them. And it is not an even a topic of conversation.

Now this post is a very simple view on the topic i will post a few article discussing this further if there is interest. Also I hope I have not offended anyone here... And if so I apologize in advance as it has become a sore spot with me and a bit raw. I will add there also seems to be a connection or correlation of this and being able to assert yourself within a relationship as well as identity issues which of course then leads to drama.

Any comments are welcome of course - Thanks

It's not for us to judge why others have the values they do. Values are what make us who we are. We have to determine what they are and how to live by them. Nobody can dictate that for us and nobody is hurt by us living by our values. It's really that simple. Values sort out what belongs to whom and where it goes.

It is an observable behavior and there for identifiable and quantifiable. Judgement and discernment are not the same things as being judgmental (which in the end is a cognitive issue). And is in this case not what it seems at all. Not a boundary set, but masked PD behavior.

Boundaries are not set, they are values. That's a common mistake. They aren't for the other person, they are for us.

It is a common mistake when a person is learning to set values they over-do-it and can build fortress' instead. This comes from not having expressed values in place or not knowing how to assert ones self for example. Boundaries are an expressed set of values which are learned ideally from their parents, but that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about symptoms of PD's being masked as boundaries.

I've always found boundaries to be something that is never brought up until they are crossed. Like we don't know what our boundaries are, until someone has violated them. So, is someone has a PD, maybe their boundaries are just very build up around them like a fortress, and they are crossed for that person much more often than most other people feel they are crossed.

You are describing healthy boundaries... I agree with you here

Fortressing. You repeating what you heard last night?

Nope, been reading and thinking about this for months and talking with a few ppl

Hmm, healthy boundaries, we can't judge what's healthy or unhealthy for another person, boundaries are a person's values and only they get to decide what they are and when they've been crossed. Its an inside job.

For example, passive aggressive posting is bad boundaries, unless passive aggressive behavior is ok with you, and then you need to find other people who are ok with passive aggressive posting.

This about not boundaries in this thread this is about a mask being called a boundary

We are not talking about the same thing

The only person we can talk about regarding boundaries is ourselves because boundaries is an inside job. That is my belief. You have a different one. I will leave you and the other poster to it.

I understand your point and do not disagree... However, What We are talking about here is the miss use of the word boundary.
And using that word to cover up a behavior that had nothing to do with a healthy values set.

It sounds like you're describing a defense mechanism more than a boundary.

Yes that may be a better way to put it. Thank you

We can not assign motive to others, all we can do is say how others affect us, otherwise we are judging them and if we think they are behaving badly, now we are too. Rather then asking why are they doing that we should be asking why am I feeling this? Others are not responsible for our feelings, nor are they the cause .

Leomama: I think one would ask rather what am I observing instead of feeling. As feelings are not objective, as they are produced by perception and can be misinformed by a false perceptions.

How we are affected by another persons behavior is exactly why this is a problem. The idea of using a word in this case "boundary" to cover up symptomatic behavior is not healthy nor does it lead to successful interpersonal relationships. This really is not rocket science as this is quite obvious in the example of avoiding and pushing away. Or when someone is first learning how to be assertive.

Healthy boundaries are not an issue as they are heathy. The problem is when a person who has gone into therapy, learns about boundaries & using this healthy idea to cover up PD behavior.

Again judging and discernment have nothing to do with being judgmental. A person who is judgmental has a cognitive issue in relationship to what they are looking at. But that is another topic just like the topic of boundaries are another topic.

This topic is about masking PD behavior with a word that is associated with healthy behavior...

I will post a few articles on this just incase I have not been clear here.

-> we are still judging another when we ascribe meaning to their behavior. All we can be sure of is how it affects us. We can not why they are behaving the way they do unless we ask them and accept their answer.

Some people can't stand to be criticized at all and they'll say their boundaries have been crossed. Other people would say extreme, unwarranted criticism has crossed their boundaries. It's subjective to each person, it's not a thing to judge, it just is what people say and how sensitive they are.

When a child has gotten into the cookie jar and has chocolate chips all over their lips and cheeks it is not being judgmental to understand what has occurred. The same is true for using a word like boundary to mask PD traits.

This behavior can be addressed several ways for example and these are just a few ideas.

1) wanting to continue the relationship with the understand the relationship will not be a normal one and so reducing expectation of having a normal relationship.

2) the behavior is off putting &
staying in it would be stifling

3) ) stay positive and supportive but realize the relationship will be very limited. Try to work with this person and in time help them establish actual boundaries that match their values.

4) Have limited contact until you see they are able to be in a normal healthy relationship

All of these would of course take a lot of acceptance like in the case of a parent.

I know what you mean as I have encountered a hand of ppl in my life that fit your description.

we can see that a healthy boundaries has been established by the results. Again being judgmental is not what is being discussed here. A person could use a boundary to cover being passive aggressive. Passive aggressive? sure that is a possibility. As a side I have seen passive aggressive posts on PC, but I have not seen passive aggressive posts being covered with boundaries.

I am not sure what you are referencing when you say "you". If I had an issue personally with someone I would address it directly as that would be one of my values. Passive Aggressive behavior, like Splitting for example, is not conducive to a healthy interpersonal relationship

Getting back to the topic at hand. IMO there are many options when faced with a person who uses the cover of a boundary to mask PD symptoms. I have listed a few above and will post a few articles about this issue which I found helpful when faced with this issue.

Snarky, can you give us a specific example. I think I might understand what you mean by using the word "boundary" as an excuse for PD behavior, but it would be helpful to give a specific example.

I think boundaries are important, but I do think some people may use them to avoid things they are uncomfortable with.

Seesaw

Not all children are taught to have boundaries. Very profound post!

I can see what you’re saying here. Ultimately a person has to act within their own core values, which means they have to know them and define them. If not then there is trouble. So ppl are too immature to be in relationships, myself included, because they have adult child issues and were never fully allowed to grow up. Like they were given responsibility but that’s it.