[Zara18]

Hi everyone,

I am a female in my early 40s & have been living with (as just friends) a male in his early 60s, because he offered for me to move in and I decided to accept to save $. I worked for him for 4 months, that is how we met.

I always thought he was a nice man, honest, down to earth and a good person.
He expressed very early on that despite his age he feels that "age is just a number" ie; has no problem having sex with/dating a much younger woman. I personally find that (a large age gap, particularly if the older one is male) very disturbing, sick actually. (I told him so and made it clear we would never be a couple). He seemed ok with it and has helped me out financially a great deal over the last 4 years that we have house shared together. All this time we have both been single.

Here is the dilemma:

The last few months my intuition has told me loud and clear that he is lying to me alot about his whereabouts, an increasing amnt of texts, phone calls late at night, and basically I knew he is seeing a woman.

That in itself is fine of course. What I can't stand is the lying, especially from a 'friend'. I think lying to someone's face over and over shows disrespect, it is not a matter of "It's none of your business what I do" as he has been saying. I feel honesty trumps "none of my business".

So I looked through his phone (& still feel justified in doing so but due to what I learned I regret it). I learned he has been (& continues to do so several x a week) seeing hookers. He is a single man so I'm not against him seeing hookers per se, but I am absolutely disgusted that he (age 62 remember) is having sex with 18-25 yo, mainly 19, 20 yo year olds!!! In my view that is not much better than being a paedophile who likes 15-18 yo girls when the man is as old as he is. How I know their ages is I matched the phone nos and texts to adult ads in local paper. I know most men wont admit paying 4 sex but he has no excuse to lie repeatedly to me about seeing Someone, he could say he met her at the café.
Also now I realise he participates in something that morally I find abhorrent, revolting & view him as a pervert, a sleaze & a womaniser. I think I blocked it out b4 how he would say "age is irrelevant", I didn't really think he really would go that low (in age & in deed).
He even lied to my face right after I gave him his Bday present! I (pretended) I had hired a hooker for him & he said "Im not interested sorry, I have to know her b4 I can sleep w her". He asked her name too, obviously checking if he already saw her. I have told him I know he is seeing very young hookers & that I think he is sick and perverted due to their age. He continues to deny seeing anyone at all. He only admits men his age like very young females bcuz the men get an ego boost & prefer young over women their own age. I think that is so sick and so sad. I know there are lots of M & F who aren't bothered by a 20, 30 even 40 year age gap but for some reason I am in a big way.

I feel the man I thought I knew was just an illusion created from my desire to have someone in my life who would treat me well and be there for me for a change. When we met I was living in my old motorhome house and pet sitting, and was very financially stressed and lonely. He was going thru a divorce & was very lonely.

I think the friendship is damaged beyond repair/is over, don't think there is any hope, the trust is completely destroyed, I wonder if he is a narcissist as he has no problem with lying to me. I am making plans to move out (we share a long lease). I am panicking as I can't get another rental as I have 3 small pets & chickens (all who he convinced me to adopt, trying to tie me down I see now), & I am unemployed as well, so have no choice but to buy a cheap caravan & live in that with my pets wherever I can find to park.

Questions for you dear readers:
(Specifically want to hear from Females (mostly)with Q 1 as most males probably have no issue with the age thing)--

1. What do you think about a 62 yo man bedding females young enf to be his granddaughter? Think gross/predatory/sick or ok/their business? Why?

2. How do you think I should feel as he has lied so much?

3. Do you think there is any hope to salvage the friendship?

4. If you think I was in the wrong or should look at his sex life in a different way how do suggest I go about this?

He has already said / excused it without admitting to it "18 yo is an adult (In Australia)& she is making her own choices. Men aren't in the wrong regardless of how young she is as long as she is legal & they both agree to have sex." Still I cant be NOT revolted!
I asked him how he would feel if he had a daughter or granddaughter who
a) was a hooker or b) was getting attention from / didn't mind attention from a much older man and on both counts he said he had no issue with it as it was her choice. As a female I was mortified & think his answer says it all abt how he regards women...what do u think? Surely a decent man who has respect for females would be mortified if his daughter/granddaughter was a hooker or was bedding much older men!!
5. Lastly How do I handle the anxiety and panic attacks I am starting to have about having to spend most of my savings on something I know nothing about (caravans) just to have a roof over my head?

Thanks for reading, anxiously awaiting some responses, still haven't heard back from a psychologist.

[Sunflower123]

[QUOTE=Zara18;5702184]Hi everyone,

Questions for you dear readers:
(Specifically want to hear from Females (mostly)with Q 1 as most males probably have no issue with the age thing)--

1. What do you think about a 62 yo man bedding females young enf to be his granddaughter? Think gross/predatory/sick or ok/their business? Why? Answer: I'm neutral. These girls are in the sex trade and are bartering sex for cash. Oftentimes they don't get to pick their clients. It's totally his business,as long as they are legal, and since you aren't involved with him it was wrong to go through his phone and trace that back to individual ads.

2. How do you think I should feel as he has lied so much? Answer: he may have lied because he is embarrassed. Since he won't fess up to you this may be one of among many deal breakers for you.

3. Do you think there is any hope to salvage the friendship? Answer: Not when you find his behavior morally repugnant unless you have a heart to heart and try to find a way to work it out.

4. If you think I was in the wrong or should look at his sex life in a different way how do you suggest I go about this? Answer: I don't think you are wrong. You have different morals on this subject and it is causing you distress. It appears to be time for you to split ways since this is distressing you so much.

5. Do you have a therapist or medication that can help you with your anxiety and panic as you transition through this?

You might have a chance to work it out if you'll both be honest but it sounds like you're totally disgusted. If you stay there you either have to overlook it or move on.

Good luck and best wishes in getting this straightened out.

As long as the females are of legal age and are choosing to do this job willingly I don't think it matters how old the other person is, they can be 80 for all I care. I do believe it was wrong of you to go through his phone like that, it was a complete invasion of his privacy. With how much it bothers you, I'm not surprised that he's lying because he doesn't want to be met with the disapproval you have expressed here.

If I were him I would want you to move out, so that I would be more free to be myself sexually and not have to hide it. Moving out would probably be a good thing for both of you. If you are this disgusted by his behaviour, I don't see how the friendship could be salvaged. Overall, although I may be disagreed with here, I think you were in the wrong.

[dermald]

1. What do you think about a 62 yo man bedding females young enf to be his granddaughter? Think gross/predatory/sick or ok/their business? Why? As a man in his early 50s, I can't even tolerate the voice of a woman under 30, so it wouldn't be my thing. I do believe that two consenting adults can do whatever they want. However, as someone who was a victim of an older woman [I was 23, she was 38], I think there's a definite power balance issue here. But that's with dating, not prostitute solicitation.

2. How do you think I should feel as he has lied so much? I think the lies are an important thing to consider. It might also be important to consider the fact that maybe he's ashamed of his need to see a prostitute. On the flip side, my little sister is a prostitute, and she said that she sees lots of older men who pay her just so they can talk. They sometimes have sex, but these older men have no "game" and are very lonely.

3. Do you think there is any hope to salvage the friendship? I think if you can talk with him about the lying, that would be a start. If he opens up and shows himself as someone who is vulnerable, then there might be a chance. He could be ashamed, but mask it with anger. This could mean that he doesn't trust anyone enough to talk openly and honestly about this.

4. If you think I was in the wrong or should look at his sex life in a different way how do suggest I go about this? I think the lie is the big issue. As for his sex life, I think he should have either told you about it, or declare it to be none of your business.

Maybe he's lonely. Maybe he's got some fetish, and has found professionals willing to participate. I don't see him as being predatory with someone who is younger, as was the case with me and my ex, because it doesn't sound like he's pursuing a relationship. Professional women typically avoid emotional connections, to the point that many avoid kissing [according to my sister].

I have never personally solicited a prostitute, because I've not had the need. That said, I dread the day when I might need to do such a thing. Maybe my girlfriend dies, I'm over 60, dating is out of the question, and yet I still have some sexual needs, as well as the loneliness that comes with no longer having her to talk with.

I do think that you will have a really hard time having an honest discussion with him if you bring this harsh judgment to the table. I understand your feelings about prostitution, and I feel it's an ugly thing as well.

Judge him, and he will clam up, and you will probably not get any honesty from him, simply because he is afraid of being judged by you. Then there will be no chance of saving this friendship.

If you set the judgment aside, along with your disgust, and genuinely care about him as a friend and a person, then he might open up and let you know what has been going on with him.

As things stand now, he's probably got shame, and you've got judgment. The over-arching umbrella is the lies about it all. He probably feels that he cannot open up to you due to this judgment.

He's got a lot of walking to do on this bridge to meet you half-way, but you've got some walking of your own to do, and it won't be easy.

I hope that you can work it out. Best of luck.

[TheDragon]

I think the friendship was damaged beyond repair the moment you choose to be so judgemental and violate their privacy.

[Erebos]

I tend not to judge my friends.
I definitely don't snoop through their phones.
I don't care who they sleep with so long as it's legal consensual and safe. But then I wouldn't know because honestly it's sod all to do with me.

If you find his behaviour abhorrent move out and move on.

But I would take a long hard look at why you felt you were entitled to invade this man's privacy.
Maybe he was trying to tell you about the bookers in the beginning, when he mentioned sex with younger women, but you assumed he meant you and he.
Perhaps if your reaction hadn't been so extreme he would have told you in the first place.
Just a thought.

[lizardlady]

1. What do you think about a 62 yo man bedding females young enf to be his granddaughter? Think gross/predatory/sick or ok/their business? Why?

I don't care what two consenting adults do as long as I don't have to witness it. Folks have all kinds of different sexual preferences. Like someone else said, as long as she is not being forced into prostitution different strokes for different folks.

2. How do you think I should feel as he has lied so much?

I suspect he lies because of your reaction to him seeing young prostitutes. My guess is he is trying to avoid confrontation and judgment.

3. Do you think there is any hope to salvage the friendship?

I doubt it. You invaded his privacy going through his phone and you have rather harshly judged him. That would be a deal breaker for me.

4. If you think I was in the wrong or should look at his sex life in a different way how do suggest I go about this?

Yep, I believe you were wrong. You had no business going through his phone. It was a major invasion of his privacy.
The only thing I can suggest about how you could look at his sex life differently would be to tell yourself that he and the women are both consenting adults. Ain't nobody else's business what they are doing.

Just wanted to add - I have a friend who married a man 30 years older than her. They were crazy about each other. The age difference meant nothing to them.

[Zara18]

I appreciate everybody's feedback including those who don't agree with what I did to discover his secret. It has been so helpful hearing other people's viewpoints, & it has helped me to realise some things.

1. I agree that he won't admit it because he is afraid of judgement from me, he knows how I feel about older men being with young women. Also yes I think he may be feeling ashamed &/or guilty.

2. I realise the reason he doesn't just make up a story that he is seeing a woman he met out & about, at a café for example, (for the sake of being partly truthful about seeing some female) is because he doesn't want me to ask questions about her which would mean he would have to keep track of all the lies he tells or he would slip up & be caught out.
(But saying that it still annoys me a great deal that he lies when he doesn't have to, example being just yesterday, he has the flu right now & is still going to work and I said "Be careful to not get too close to anyone while you are sick so they don't catch it" (I was thinking as I said this I hope you have the consideration to not see any hookers while you are sick)). He could have responded without lying ie; "Yes I know".
But he says instead "I don't get close with anyone so it's not an issue". AARRHHH! There is another lie!! Unnecessarily!! It's like he can't help himself! Now whatever he says (if he makes a point of saying something), I know the opposite is true.

Back to other realisations:

3. I realise I have such an issue with older men liking very young women because I have been raped by much older men on multiple occasions by multiple men, starting from when I was 14 yo, again at 15, 16, 17, & in my 20s...all the men were anywhere from their 40s to 60s. (Also raped in my 30s by a much younger man).

So I have issues with men in general as well, unfortunately I do not trust men and always question their intentions, integrity etc. I doubt I will ever be in a relationship ever again, sadly.
In some ways I think it was very unhealthy for me to live with an older man as many times I felt creeped out and triggered when he would say some sexual innuendo / make some comment to me about my body (he made it very clear he thought I was attractive and would quite often do things that in the workplace would be considered sexual harassment). As the life he was providing me was better than my life in a van I put up with it for the most part. I don't know overall in hindsight if it was a good decision to live with him-- friendship is valuable but being triggered is detrimental.

Yes I have tried counselling for the rapes/trauma but in the scheme of things it didn't really help. The pain and trauma stays with you (for me anyway) and I continue to get triggered by older men looking at me. I remember being very affected by any man 40yo+ looking at me when I was very young, I think pre teen. It wasn't until I was in my early-mid 30s that the trigger response left for men in their 40s. Men in their 50s & 60s have always been a trigger as long as I can remember. So I think there also is a trauma there I have blocked out from my childhood. I went under hypnosis once and recall part of an extremely traumatic memory of my mother sitting there with an older man with a beard and they were both staring at me with a predatory vibe/intent... which would explain why any man (any age) with a beard really triggers something in me, I am very uncomfortable with anyone with a beard. Unfortunately most men in Australia have them nowadays as it's considered "fashionable".

Unfortunately most male attention I receive is not by men my age of early 40s (which is the only age range I am attracted to) but by men in their 50s, 60s and even 70s....men always like younger women, and men in their 40s like women in their 20s so I'm too old for them.

Anyways I have also realised that yes I possibly have become judgemental of people as a protective mechanism, as when I was young and naïve I looked for the good in everyone and trusted men I should not have trusted. I paid the ultimate price in not judging, so now I find it much safer to judge. "Better safe than sorry" as the saying goes.

As far as the friendship goes between the older man and myself, time will tell but I do feel less reactive about it now... if I focus on the reason why it bothers me then my focus becomes pain and grief for what I went through, not what he is doing. Also yes as they are consenting adults I should really try not to be bothered by it.

Please continue offering your feedback, I really appreciate it. I will make an effort to read more posts from others as well and offer what I can in support.

In the meantime I will seriously consider seeing a T again (it's been about 8-10 years) and perhaps also go back on medication (I used to be on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds).

Thank you all again for your input and support.

[Zara18]

P.S. I forgot to mention he is online dating as well (can see the browser history on the computer we share that he has actually joined 2 sites as well)...but he denies that too. With internet dating I don't see why he would lie, as I can't know what age he is looking for and I have always told him if he was to meet a woman around his own age I would be happy for him (which is true). So perhaps he is only looking for young ones on there too & thinks if he met someone online & it went somewhere (ie a rship) he cant tell me abt that either due to her age.
There are so many attractive women out there in their 50s and 60s, both in this town and online (I have checked) so I don't see why he wouldn't seriously consider them ... except if he is only looking for sex, but he says he wants a woman to grow older with and to travel around with.

Thoughts anyone?

[TheDragon]

I'm sorry that you were partially triggered due to the abuse in your past. That can definitely make it harder in a situation like that.

However, unless what your roommate is affecting your life, is there any advantage to stressing yourself out and potentially ruining a friendship over it? If you do feel so strongly about it that it does affect you, I would seriously consider moving somewhere else for the sake of my mental wellbeing.

[divine1966]

Unless you are his wife, he has absolutely zero obligation to disclose to you who he sleeps with or if he is dating. It's entirely his business. Unless he sleeps with minors or forces anyone, he is free to sleep with whoever of any age without making it anyone's business. You violated his privacy by going through his phone. Personally I wouldn't stay with people who go through my stuff. What's his reaction to you going through his phone?

I am sorry you've been sexually assaulted and so many times.

[Zara18]

Originally Posted by TheDragon

I'm sorry that you were partially triggered due to the abuse in your past. That can definitely make it harder in a situation like that.

However, unless what your roommate is affecting your life, is there any advantage to stressing yourself out and potentially ruining a friendship over it? If you do feel so strongly about it that it does affect you, I would seriously consider moving somewhere else for the sake of my mental wellbeing.

If I had a normal life and could easily get a rental with my pets, I definitely would move out, yes. But because my only option is to spend almost all my meagre savings on what will likely be a "lemon" caravan (which may take the rest of my savings in repair bills) I am so scared of moving out. It's like damned if I do, damned if I don't.

He has been a good friend over the years in that he has financially supported me a great deal, 100% alot of the time, as he knows I don't have much $ and he earns 11x what I do (I'm on a pension). So I am trying to focus on that and not what he chooses to do in his personal life. It is just that he still lies regularly even when he could be honest without giving his secret away...Integrity is just so important to me, & his secret sex life triggers me I think.
I need to see a counsellor as well as try harder to get a life outside of the house, ie make further attempts to volunteer somewhere and then see if things improve between us.

If things still don't improve then I will move out for the sake of both of us. It would be a shame to lose the friendship, deep down I still care about him alot and do and always will acknowledge his good points. I miss how he used to make me laugh and the great road trips we did...all the memories.

Re my decision to look in his phone- this was also because of a past experience with a man who I was dating where the same thing happened, I started to get suspicious of his behaviour, I felt in my gut he was lying to me, so I looked in his phone and discovered not only did he have another woman he was "sexting" but she was his WIFE and was overseas at the time!!! I would have been played and used so much longer if I didn't look.

Anyways will still look forward to everyone's posts on this topic, thanks.

[divine1966]

Are you honest with yourself that you only consider him a friend? Your actions and your concern about his private life suggest perhaps some romantic interest on your part.

[Zara18]

[QUOTE=dermald;5703801][B] On the flip side, my little sister is a prostitute, and she said that she sees lots of older men who pay her just so they can talk. They sometimes have sex, but these older men have no "game" and are very lonely.

Hi Dermald. I'm curious, what do you think of your little sister being a prostitute? (I don't judge prostitutes for doing that at all, but I do think it is soul destroying and a pity they do it).
Do you think much older men are inappropriate to see very young women vs women closer to their own ages? (Prostitutes are all ages).
I would have thought if the older man is lonely he would seek out women closer to his own age so they would actually have things in common. I struggle to imagine a 19 yo and a 50/60 yo having much to talk about past the usual formalities.

3. Do you think there is any hope to salvage the friendship?

I think if you can talk with him about the lying, that would be a start. If he opens up and shows himself as someone who is vulnerable, then there might be a chance. He could be ashamed, but mask it with anger. This could mean that he doesn't trust anyone enough to talk openly and honestly about this.

How do you suggest I do this? He denies flat out seeing anyone as well as denies internet dating (despite the internet history clearly showing otherwise)!

4. If you think I was in the wrong or should look at his sex life in a different way how do suggest I go about this?
I think the lie is the big issue.

I don't see him as being predatory with someone who is younger, as was the case with me and my ex, because it doesn't sound like he's pursuing a relationship.

May I ask you re your past rship(?) when you were 23 & she was 38... usually young men think it is something to brag about if they bed an older woman... what defined it as predatory for you? (If you don't mind me asking).

I do think that you will have a really hard time having an honest discussion with him if you bring this harsh judgment to the table. I understand your feelings about prostitution, and I feel it's an ugly thing as well.

Judge him, and he will clam up, and you will probably not get any honesty from him, simply because he is afraid of being judged by you. Then there will be no chance of saving this friendship.

If you set the judgment aside, along with your disgust, and genuinely care about him as a friend and a person, then he might open up and let you know what has been going on with him.

As things stand now, he's probably got shame, and you've got judgment. The over-arching umbrella is the lies about it all. He probably feels that he cannot open up to you due to this judgment.

He's got a lot of walking to do on this bridge to meet you half-way, but you've got some walking of your own to do, and it won't be easy.

Well said and I think you have some very good points.

I hope that you can work it out. Best of luck.

Thanks.

[Zara18]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Are you honest with yourself that you only consider him a friend? Your actions and your concern about his private life suggest perhaps some romantic interest on your part.

Hi Divine,

I had a chuckle at your post... No heavens no! I never have been attracted to him physically at all, and because to be attracted to someone I have to find him both physically and emotionally appealing there was never a desire for a relationship.
But in saying that I have been wishing for years that I would meet a nice man who I connected with physically and emotionally, and I have often thought in the case of this friend "What a shame I didn't find him sexually appealing otherwise I would agree to be his partner perhaps"... but that was still a huge Maybe as the age gap was always a factor as well. I have never found men more than about 7-8 years older than me appealing.

He on the other hand has always wanted me for both a lover and as a partner. So has been remarkably restrained in keeping me around for so long, be hard for a man considering they have such high sex drives.

[Crazy Hitch]

Lol - I never got the impression you had any romantic feelings for him either and I also had a small giggle.

Not a nice situation - you're right - damned if you do; damned if you don't.

As for some guidelines - refrain from snooping through anything private of his - you don't even need to scroll through the internet history on the device that you share. It's just going to culminate this long list of score that you're keeping.

He for now is your financial saving grace.

Have you upfront tried to have a conversation about his sexual innuendoes and how they're not welcome? Does he know about your past?

[Erebos]

I am sorry to hear about your history, what concerns me is your lack of acceptance that going through his private life is not only out of order but a massive part of what is triggering you.

He very clearly isn't interested in abuse or non consensual sex, otherwise he wouldn't be paying for prostitutes. He obviously wants someone who wants him back, no matter how briefly.

My fella is 10 years younger than me. My friend dates much older guys, in fact she is just 20 and her partner is 25+ years older than her and they have just had the most beautiful baby boy. She dated guys her age, they were abusive,cheaters, careless and not ready for the things she was ready for.

You have had terrible experiences and it's almost as though your expecting this man you live with to fix all of that by living up to your expectations.
Only he doesn't, cos he is just a guy, lonely who wants to be wanted once in a while.
I think so long as he isn't lying about things that directly involve you, you have to let it go if your going to stay there.

I might also add, you have said yourself he has provided you with a much better life than you had, and accepted you weren't interested. What more do you wAnt?

You don't want him, but you want him to behave like I would expect my partner to behave. Full disclosure, total honesty, but even I don't have the right to look through my partners phone or computer.
Your boundaries seem very skewed. I can understand from your past why that is but it's definitely something that needs worked on.
I suspect if you explained your history the innuendo would
Stop, I really don't believe he wants to be in that kind of unbalanced relationship.
However if it doesn't stop then no matter how much better your living conditions are, you need to leave. Because some people that's just their sense of humour, personally I quite bad for finding innuendos in the stupidest things, and if your going to be triggered by that you need to protect yourself.

I wish you all the best, it would be nice if you could sort the differences. This guy obviously wants a companion but that can't be you, so let him find his someone.

Concentrate on not triggering yourself by not going through his stuff.
I will be honest if I had found out my houseshare had been through my stuff they would be out before they could pack a bag.
Good luck, I hope your able to find a good Therapist who could help you establish boundaries and activities to focus your mind and move forward. Take care.

[divine1966]

You never answered what was his reaction to you going through his phone?

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Zara18

Hi Divine,

I had a chuckle at your post... No heavens no! I never have been attracted to him physically at all, and because to be attracted to someone I have to find him both physically and emotionally appealing there was never a desire for a relationship.
But in saying that I have been wishing for years that I would meet a nice man who I connected with physically and emotionally, and I have often thought in the case of this friend "What a shame I didn't find him sexually appealing otherwise I would agree to be his partner perhaps"... but that was still a huge Maybe as the age gap was always a factor as well. I have never found men more than about 7-8 years older than me appealing.

He on the other hand has always wanted me for both a lover and as a partner. So has been remarkably restrained in keeping me around for so long, be hard for a man considering they have such high sex drives.

The reason I asked if you have romantic interest is because you demand things from him that people could only demand of romantic partners. Full disclosure about dating and sexual habits. You even justified going though his phone because you were cheated on before and that was the way to find out. But that was a romantic partner and this guy isn't

That's not something people demand of others unless they are romantic partners.

You are even mad that he didn't disclose that he is doing online dating ( not just escort). No one expects such dusclosure from friends she housemates. Would you expect such disclosure if your housemates was a woman? Would you be upset that she is doing online dating and not telling you? So you'd go through her phone?

You are not be romantically attracted to him but your demands of him are as of a romantic partner

[Perna]

I think with the financial help and age difference you may be feeling as if he should be an ideal father figure. I know my grandfather had a mistress my father's age and that still bothers me and he was not even my father!

I, personally, would go talk to a therapist or someone as you have issues with this man who you claim is just a friend and it does not sound like he has issues with you other than your invading his life, which is not very friendly.

[dermald]

So many things to answer:

I'm curious, what do you think of your little sister being a prostitute? I don't like it. Since it's illegal, it's way more dangerous, when compared to places where it is legal and regulated.

How do you suggest I do this? He denies flat out seeing anyone as well as denies internet dating (despite the internet history clearly showing otherwise)! This is in regard to talking with him about it. If he doesn't want to talk, and he denies it, then you will have to make a decision. That is, either let him have his life, forget about it, and stay where you are, OR decide that this is unacceptable to you and make the appropriate plans to move on. He can't be forced.

I understand why lying to you is an issue. What I don't understand is why getting him to confirm details about his private life is so important. Best case scenario, you get him to admit that he was lying about it. Then what? What is the end game?

May I ask you re your past rship(?) when you were 23 & she was 38... usually young men think it is something to brag about if they bed an older woman... what defined it as predatory for you? (If you don't mind me asking). Regardless of my age, I've never felt the need or compulsion to brag about anyone I might be sleeping with. Plus, this wasn't a case of just having sex with someone. It was a full-blown relationship.

What defined it as "predatory" for me, looking back, was the fact that she had so much more life experience than I did. She was already divorced, with an 18 year old daughter and a 15 year old son. Meanwhile, I was still finding my way.

The amount of times that I had been manipulated into doing things that I didn't want to do cannot be counted. I trusted her, and she used me. She basically took advantage of my naive view of the world, which was due to my lack of experience.

Her experience put her in the position of power. If there is no ill intent, then this may not be an issue. However, she ended up revealing a major host of psychological problems that resulted from some serious sexual abuse as a child. She wanted someone to control, and she found the Codependent who would put his own wants and needs on the back-burner and cater to her every whim.

In the end, she was physically and psychologically abusive, and knew how to work the system in order to cause as much damage as possible, as well as to maximize her gains.

With regard to older men and younger women, maybe it's a power thing. But this leads me to one BIG reason why I dated an older woman.

All of the younger women my age were seeking out men who were already established. These are older men. They wouldn't give me the time of day because I was starting out. My ex, as an older woman, couldn't physically compete with the younger women who were taking the attention of the men her own age, so she went with someone younger like me.

Men and women possess different forms of social currency. A woman's social currency revolves around her beauty, sexuality, and in some cases her ability to bear children. A man's social currency revolves around his money, power, social status [fame], and his ability to provide nesting material for offspring.

Sure, there are some young women who would want to start life with a man who is just starting out, too. That's a harder road, and getting deeper into this would involve financial, political, and cultural discussions that could fill books.

Basically, the Law of Attraction is that a woman gets the most powerful man she can attract, and the man gets the hottest woman he can afford. It's water seeking its own level. In the case of me and my ex, I was in a place where the only thing I had was potential. She saw me as a project; someone she could change and make into something that, in the end, I was not.

It really was a mess, and I'm glad to be done with it. I hope this answers some questions.

[kipper-bang]

Originally Posted by divine1966

The reason I asked if you have romantic interest is because you demand things from him that people could only demand of romantic partners. Full disclosure about dating and sexual habits. You even justified going though his phone because you were cheated on before and that was the way to find out. But that was a romantic partner and this guy isn't

That's not something people demand of others unless they are romantic partners.

You are even mad that he didn't disclose that he is doing online dating ( not just escort). No one expects such dusclosure from friends she housemates. Would you expect such disclosure if your housemates was a woman? Would you be upset that she is doing online dating and not telling you? So you'd go through her phone?

You are not be romantically attracted to him but your demands of him are as of a romantic partner

These are my thoughts exactly!!!

If they were dating or more I could understand the posters complaints, but I think we should also look at this another way.

1. Does she feel that its ok to use an older man she has no interest in and finds disgusting, in order to get a free ride through life?

2. Why cant she see that she was wrong to meddle in his affairs?

3. Will she move out or get therapy?

I feel she will stay where she knows her 'bread is buttered' -UK term for 'having it easy' - and continue to use this man the way she has for years, while continuing to play judge & jury in his life.

I am aware of her past issues, and I have experienced similar from 6-13yrs old. But I would never, ever judge another man over what happened to me in my past. Its not fair on him!!

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by kipper-bang

These are my thoughts exactly!!!

If they were dating or more I could understand the posters complaints, but I think we should also look at this another way.

1. Does she feel that its ok to use an older man she has no interest in and finds disgusting, in order to get a free ride through life?

2. Why cant she see that she was wrong to meddle in his affairs?

3. Will she move out or get therapy?

I feel she will stay where she knows her 'bread is buttered' -UK term for 'having it easy' - and continue to use this man the way she has for years, while continuing to play judge & jury in his life.

I am aware of her past issues, and I have experienced similar from 6-13yrs old. But I would never, ever judge another man over what happened to me in my past. Its not fair on him!!

Good point about financial use. To stay in situation that one finds unacceptable for financial gain is morally as wrong (if not worse) than paying for sex.

I am sorry to what happened to you

[Zara18]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Unless you are his wife, he has absolutely zero obligation to disclose to you who he sleeps with or if he is dating. It's entirely his business. Unless he sleeps with minors or forces anyone, he is free to sleep with whoever of any age without making it anyone's business. You violated his privacy by going through his phone. Personally I wouldn't stay with people who go through my stuff. What's his reaction to you going through his phone?

I am sorry you've been sexually assaulted and so many times.

Divine1966, sorry I didn't notice this msg yesterday.

His reaction was anger of course & he said 'I have no respect for his stuff'. I replied "he has no respect for me, which is far worse". Lots of yelling / fighting. What amazes me is he still denies it when I have seen the proof. He keeps saying what he does is none of my business, & said we need to go our own 2 ways. (I told him) I agree and have been spending many hours researching caravans to buy.
But since our big fight (after a few days not talking) he is being friendly again and is initiating conversation(??) It is like he really wants me to stay. It is not like I am refusing to leave!!
I will still go ahead and start selling off all my things I cannot take with me (have advertised) and I will still look for a caravan as even if I still stay it would be good to be able to go away for a few weeks at a time every few months. He has said if I stop bugging him about his personal life and we can get along he has no problem with me staying. But I do realise in the long term this is not a practical or healthy option, so I am sure I will still be leaving regardless.

I realise now I shouldn't have gone through his phone, I regret it and have no desire to do so again. I do suspect he has also gone through my phone & have caught him reading my personal lists/notes on the counter many times which he always denied but I guess that's irrelevant.

Also (but this doesn't excuse me looking thru his phone) I saw him leaving a hotel (where hookers stay) and I told him that, he looked guilty but still denied it.

I will respond individually to each of the responses where appropriate & continue to appreciate the feedback.

Thanks.

[Zara18]

Originally Posted by dermald

So many things to answer:

I understand why lying to you is an issue. What I don't understand is why getting him to confirm details about his private life is so important. Best case scenario, you get him to admit that he was lying about it. Then what? What is the end game?
Hi Dermald, thank you for answering my questions. I don't know how to explain it any differently than I already have- I cannot stand dishonesty and being lied to my face. I feel if he would just admit it then I would feel much better. "Ok at least you are honest abt it" kind of thing.

But also after reading all the replies where everyone clearly thinks I was wrong to snoop, I am seeing that yes I suppose what he does is his business, and yes you and others are right; if his choices are not something that sit well with me then I must go.

[B]May I ask you re your past rship(?) when you were 23 & she was 38... what defined it as predatory for you?

What defined it as "predatory" for me, looking back, was the fact that she had so much more life experience than I did. She was already divorced, with an 18 year old daughter and a 15 year old son. Meanwhile, I was still finding my way.

The amount of times that I had been manipulated into doing things that I didn't want to do cannot be counted. I trusted her, and she used me. She basically took advantage of my naive view of the world, which was due to my lack of experience.
Her experience put her in the position of power.

You hit the nail on the head as to why I feel huge age gaps are wrong. (and due to my history).

However, she ended up revealing a major host of psychological problems that resulted from some serious sexual abuse as a child. She wanted someone to control, and she found the Codependent who would put his own wants and needs on the back-burner and cater to her every whim.

In the end, she was physically and psychologically abusive, and knew how to work the system in order to cause as much damage as possible, as well as to maximize her gains.

With regard to older men and younger women, maybe it's a power thing. But this leads me to one BIG reason why I dated an older woman.

All of the younger women my age were seeking out men who were already established. These are older men. They wouldn't give me the time of day because I was starting out. My ex, as an older woman, couldn't physically compete with the younger women who were taking the attention of the men her own age, so she went with someone younger like me.

Interesting point as to why some ppl seek different age ranges.

Men and women possess different forms of social currency. A woman's social currency revolves around her beauty, sexuality, and in some cases her ability to bear children. A man's social currency revolves around his money, power, social status [fame], and his ability to provide nesting material for offspring.

Sure, there are some young women who would want to start life with a man who is just starting out, too. That's a harder road, and getting deeper into this would involve financial, political, and cultural discussions that could fill books.

Basically, the Law of Attraction is that a woman gets the most powerful man she can attract, and the man gets the hottest woman he can afford. It's water seeking its own level. In the case of me and my ex, I was in a place where the only thing I had was potential.
She saw me as a project; someone she could change and make into something that, in the end, I was not.

It really was a mess, and I'm glad to be done with it. I hope this answers some questions.

Thanks for sharing.