Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

Thank you for your advice!

Here it is... long ago in a galaxy far far away... women could not work or in anyway care for themselves by law. Fathers knew that they had to find men to care for their daughters once they passed. They did it by marriage. Which was a contract. This contract was for life. Otherwise the father wouldn't get the benefit of the bargain. Safety insured for their girls.

It was.. you get a woman to bear your children and have sex with forever and probably some money in the form of a dowry -- IF -- you take care of her *till death do you part*.

So if a guy cheated it was a breach of contract because it put the woman wife in danger that you wouldn't take care of her. You had to marry one woman and couldn't get a divorce because that destroyed the entire system. And would leave women uncared for.

When women got liberation - society just couldn't give up the system and devised ways to try to keep people "trapped" in these relationships. Because marriage overall is good for society. Not the individual. The story was recast as "love" yes people got married due to "love" and they stayed together because -- it was love and love, tru luv, was forever.

But then in the 60s that didn't work either. 50% of marriages broke up and even though it makes less sense than ever society continues to try to brainwash these ideas on society so that they can maintain people trapped in bad marriages and trapped in bad jobs because they have to provide for bad marriages and kids.

The first post to your thread sums up my thoughts exactly.

Where did I claim exactly that society made me do this?

And thank you so much for your forthright honest judgement of liars & cheaters.
Brush that halo your wearing!
Thank you so much.

I agree with most of this - up to the last two paragraphs. I believe people decide if they want to marry bc their love is strong enough or if they would rather live together or etc. I know couples that have lived together 13+ years and never married even though they love each other completely. I have met couples who prefer to live in separate residences even though they love each other completely. I know people who married for love and later divorced. On the other hand, I also know people who married for love and continue to grow closer to each other. I know people who married for convenience, though it's no longer convenient to be married anymore.

Societal laws have actually started to frown upon marriage. Not in a outwardly forthcoming way, but in a silent and sneaky way. For instance, I will use my husband and I as examples. We lived together almost 3 years before we married. We are on disability, so we receive Medicare. Medicare is NOT free. It costs over $100/mom that is automatically deducted from the disability check before it's ever sent out. We couldn't afford those kind of deductions, so we applied to receive either QMB or SLMB. QMB pays all of Medicare premium, while SLMB pays part of it. We each qualified for SLMB. We informed them we were living together and they said that was fine. We got married in June, now...we no longer qualify for SLMB. Why? Our monies haven't changed. We still reside under the same roof. We have not moved. All our finances are the same. .... Social Security told us it is because we are married now and that changes everything - even though we lived together, we could receive help because by law they cannot add our incomes together, but still use the bracket for "household of 2" but now that we are married the law says they have to combine both our incomes and assets together and use the bracket "household of 2". So in effect, they punished us by taking away over $200/mo simply for being married. Something we were not aware of til now. Also, it's really a governmental trap now I feel. I did some research on divorce laws here in my state. In order to divorce here, you must first be legally separated for 1 year, and reside within this state for at least 6mo before the court date. Also, general insurance premiums raise when you marry. Marriage is no longer looked upon in a favorable light by the government imho.

This is exactly why I am an opponent of marriage.

To me, marriage is little more than a scam. It's harder to get help if your poor and if you're well off financially, your spouse can divorce you and steal half of your hard earned assets.

In fact, a relative gave me some extremely good advice awhile back that I should have heeded sooner in my life: never let money get in the way of friendships because money turns friends into enemies. I consider this bit of advice especially true for relationships. If you love somebody enough to want to get married to them, they are technically your "best friend", right? If I felt so strongly for somebody, I would NOT want to have something like money break us apart.

I don't need a woman's help paying my own way and I have no interest in using one for money either. Besides, if I am too poor to be able to take care of myself and my loved ones, than I have no business in a relationship anyways.

I know some of my opinions are rather unpopular or unconventional, but I felt the need to express myself here.

No I agree. From my point of view I can't see the point in getting married. It is still just a trap for women. Not only in the marriage ceremony which typically you need pay for as a woman, but, then it is really hard to get out of. I don't see why anyone would do it. Many women I know who married ended up paying the guy. Or 10K to get a divorce (even if agreed to)

I don't believe in "forever" love. And I think the "contract" of marriage ruins that if it was possible. People just get sick of each other in all relationships and need a break. That is the most healthy thing. To understand that.

I know it is possible that society has changed some issues on marriage but I find it disgusting that so much else seems 100% related to you getting married. At my workplace, you don't get a party for your birthday but if you get married you get one. Why? That is celebrating an outsider. There are many more benefits if you are married (such as you can put your spouse on your insurance plan) and finally I have opposed gay marriage only because the entire reason hey want "marriage" is tantamount to saying that the benefits that are given to heterosexual couples are an advantage and it violates equal protection not to give that to homosexuals.. but that ignores the fact that you are giving preferential treatment to people because of a choice that they make that the government likes. I don't see why it doesn't violate my rights not to be able to get these things as a single person.

When I was single (majority of my adult life) I never felt I was denied something what married people had. I never felt that I am being treated differently or discriminated against. My first marriage didn't work out ( we ddd an awesome job co parenting though and my daughter is a well adjusted adult). Then I was single. Then I was in relationships. Then I was single. Now I am married second time.

Bottom line I have experience of a single woman, divorce woman, married woman and I lived on two continents. I never felt pressure to neither marry nor stay in marriage nor divorce nor remarry. All was my choice.

I can't really think of one thing that was denied to me by a society when I was single. I really don't know. Now I could see how people in long term common law type of arrangement could complain that they are denied something. But what are single people denied? Maybe there is something, I just managed not to get bothered. I just live my life

My apologies to the OP for taking this thread on a tangent.

My h and I got married in a totally traditional way. He, the breadwinner. Me, the housewife and mother. Our marriage was not just about us two, those three children came first. We raised three great kids who are becoming responsible adults to 'take on' this world.

My h provided me the security of knowing he was committed and his salary. I provided him with a home and family, dinner on the table for him, holidays, parties, etc...

And yes, I cracked up during all this, eventually getting diagnosed, all because of how he is sexually and the toll that took on my emotions.

We have not divorced (yet). If we do, I am not STEALING half his earned money. I damn well deserve half! We are a team. He could not have had the home and family without my efforts, and I could not have paid for it without his efforts.

We have both been very committed to the marriage. Even through this hellish problem, we stay committed and faithful.

I'm still a firm believer in marriage. I hope it doesn't become obsolete in the future.

Actually, according to the Tax Foundation:

-A marriage penalty or bonus is the change in a couple’s total tax bill as a result of getting married and thus filing their taxes jointly.
-Marriage bonuses typically occur when two individuals with disparate incomes marry.
-Marriage penalties occur when two individuals with equal incomes marry; this is true for both high- and low-income couples.
-Marriage bonuses can be as high as 20 percent of a couple’s income, and marriage penalties can be as high as 12 percent of a couple’s income.
-While research shows that marriage penalties and bonuses do not have much effect on whether a couple will marry, they do impact how much each spouse works.
-It is possible to completely eliminate both marriage penalties and bonuses, but it would require a significant overhaul of the tax code that drastically changes the current distribution of income taxes paid.

So this tax code helps couples which make enough money to survive on one couples income and the incentive for one person to stay at home becomes even more extreme if you have young children (because you have to pay childcare costs in order to work.)

There have been many times in my marriage where I quit working simply because when I calculated childcare costs, the fact that we ate out more when both of us worked, gas, teaching supplies, quality of life, and the fact that when I worked it put us in a much higher tax bracket .

In retrospect, my actions had unintended consequences--when the credit bubble burst, had I still been teaching--we would have had that income to fall back on. Our tax code was definitely a factor in my tendency to change and quits jobs. And most unfortunate of all, lower income couples are just stuck with these rules (cannot game the system by one person staying at home) which were likely passed when fewer women were part of the work force. So much about our tax code is so archaic!

I agree with you in that money should not be the reason you marry nor the reason to divorce. My point in my post was that marriage is no longer a scam for society to benefit by way of profiting the individual as some still try to make it out to be. Marriage has always been a promise of undying love to me and will always be that, though I do know and realize in some societies it is meant differently. Not really as much monetary, as it is a promise between families when a child is born, or a contract in order to in some way benefit both sides. Even then, marriage is meant to form a close bond. Marriage is not a scam, it is a union entered into with trust given on both sides no matter the circumstances, and love given on both sides in most in America and other such countries. The scam is the belief that somehow marriage is supposed to win you benefits not otherwise accessible.

My husband and I have had our problems anyway and he is forever saying to me "then get a divorce", I am forever telling him I don't want one, but one time I got angry enough to look up the laws here. That's how and why I know them. So when the SS lady told us getting a divorce is a solution, it was quite laughable to me. If I am already having monetary issues living with him and both incomes calculated together, how the devil am I supposed to live separate from him for a year using only my income but still having his income calculated into mine? So money is neither a reason for marriage not divorce. It is also not the reason I stay with him (since I already told you I told him that even before I knew the laws or spoke to the SS lady) but it is something people use as an excuse against marriage. I don't agree with that reasoning.

This has to do with taxes. Disability has no taxes, thus my entire comment (the one you quoted) has nothing to do with this. We received disability before and after we were married in the exact same amounts. Nothing else changed. Argue your facts with NC SSA if you don't believe me. SLMB and QMB requirements for eligibility are different from state to state, so be sure to contact NC.

Ok, so now I am officially out of this conversation. I am sorry if I somehow offended the OP. I, myself, feel I was attacked for the original response I made, so I am bowing out now. Good luck and take care.

I'm not offended by everybody's posts. Please write whatever you feel like.

Whether or not someone believes society pulls their strings and severely impacts how they live it's happening. We don't have to believe in this for it to be true. So many of the roles we play and decisions we make are thrust upon us by societal norms. We are completely unaware of how insidiously these messages are sent to us. The idea of the nuclear family is not humans natural state at all. People didn't live in single family homes with their spouse and kids until the idea was sold to us because it had economic advantage. We all like to believe we are free and make all our own choices but reality is much different than our perceptions allow us to see.

To clarify: when I made my comment about spouses stealing your assets through divorce, I was referring to people who get in relationships only because their partner is doing well financially so they can use them for money and what not. Yeah, if you put actual work into the relationship for an extended period of time, than you do deserve something out of it. If you are a gold digger, a user, or an abuser on the other hand, then you don't deserve a dime. This goes for both men and women.

Still though, one thing that has always rubbed me the wrong way with marriages is the whole asset merging thing. Because I'm an aspiring entrepreneur and what not, I would be especially vulnerable to gold diggers as I become more successful; especially since I become so damn lonely more often than I care to admit. I simply can't trust another human being enough to get married to them and give them that kind of potential power over me and nothing can change that about me.

The only way that I would be secure in a serious relationship is if money is kept separate. My partner would have every right to spend what money she earns however the hell she wants and I would do the same. I've ruined a number of friendships due to my own greed in the past, therefore, I learned the hard way to not involve money in any way when it comes to family and friends.

So yeah, because of my own personal feelings, I understand that I am likely biased here. I'm sorry if I offended anybody.

You have a very valid concern, Darkness. In my state, if you are only married say 5 years, you will not be entitled to much of your spouse's money. In California, I think though, as soon as you marry your spouse is instantly entitled to half. I agree that's wrong if the marriage only lasts short term. That's why they do pre-nups.

I hope you find someone you really get to know who is a nice and worthy person. They won't try to take you for a chump. A marriage with trust in all ways, including money, is definitely best. Of course, you can still keep some assets separate, lol.

My h and I merged our money into a joint account. I had more money than him when we married. We've always been so good about money with each other. We are like-minded. I think if you can find this, you can feel safe enough to merge.

There is so much about "Marriage" not just living together that is good for society and or government and I can't help but think that is why there remain so many draconian social stigmas for not getting married. At its very core is the idea that marriage is a trap. It is hard to get out of and costly even now. It takes away you freedom to decide for yourself. It is stunning that anyone would consider it at all except for society pressure.

Getting married -- the ceremony -- is a STUNNING waste of money that continues to be pushed because it holds up an entire industry. A co worker of mine got married at city hall and her family was so upset they made her have a ceremony and paid for it. Why? Why? Yet today I am going to hear on TV another story about how people have no savings left for retirement. Even the most minimal ceremony can cost over 10K.

There is so much that government / society gets away with not doing because they push it off on spouses. Not enough parking at the station? Well. 1/2 of them can have their spouses drive them. Health care procedure that needs the person to be watched for 24 hours after... well, the spouse can do it. Before you are 20 years old you have already gotten the message that you are going to be at a practical disadvantage in many ways... if you don't find someone to be your "spouse". And that is why so many people cave and get married. Wanna run for office? Single... good luck with that. Want to be a foster parent and single... good luck with that.. want to adopt and be single... again good luck with that. It can be done but you are going to come under strict scrutiny because society as decided that if you are normal.. you show it by marrying someone once...

My favorite movie on this is Muriel's Wedding. It is such a in your face indictment of the marriage pressure in society.

That's capitalism for you.

Of course they're going to push marriages on people because they would lose billions of people stopped getting married.

I'm grateful that my rather unconventional life experiences with me having to learn everything that I did on my own without others helping me taught me to look at things subjectively and formulate my own opinion about things instead of simply believing what other people want me to. I'm grateful to be an outcast who has no desire whatsoever to be normal or fit in. If people don't like me for being different, I have no need for them in my life.

In the very unlikely event that I ever get married, I am not paying for a fancy ceremony or anything. I will do things my own way and those who don't like it can GTFO.

Who's "they?"

I just went to my nephew's wedding. It was a meeting and merging of not only him and his bride, but of the two families. They are of two different races and cultures, and they did rituals from both cultures (he is Jewish and she is Chinese). Sure, I may never even see her relatives again, but I got to meet my now extended relatives. It feels good for the couple to know they are supported by the whole family. We all gathered to support them and wish them luck. The cost of the wedding doesn't matter.

Industries that profit off of marriage supplies such as clothes, accessories, diamonds, ETC.

Cost does matter to me a great deal, because unlike most people in the first world, I actually know what it's like to be homeless and hungry. Because of my experiences in life, I place a higher value in wealth, security, and my own self interest than my relationships or other people in general. I refuse to go without ever again.

So while other people continue to spend $25000+ on marriage ceramonies and bury themselves in credit card debt and strain themselves with car payments and mortgages and work their butts off over 40 hours per week until they retire at 60-70 , I will be focusing on improving myself and saving or reinvesting my money wisely so that I can live an enriching and enjoyable life. Relationships are secondary to me.

/rant off

Not everyone spends enormous amount of money on the wedding at all. We spent nothing. Well I think $50 for marriage license. It's entirely one's choice. I do have a ring but it's not excessive in price plus we work and can afford it. I wasn't forced to marry or spend anything at all. I don't know why you think people are forced to do anything. Some families might force their loved ones but western society isn't forcing anything.

Ok I realize I said I was out of this conversation but bc I have friends still here I been watching it. Too many of you are saying the government et al do not want to stop marriage. My whole point in my original comment is that they are doing what they can to make marriage inconvenient and thus unwanted by many people. A lot of people look for the easy way of doing things. The easy way to get money. The easy way to get a job. The easy was to get insurance. The easy way to get assistance. Etc. The truth of the matter is in the days when I was growing up, if a couple was married they were more likely to get the house for sale than the couple applying for it who are living together, and the married couple with children was more likely to get assistance than the single mother with children. The married man would land the job quicker than the single man. The married couples got tax breaks. There were all sorts of "pluses" to being married. Now, not only has all that changed but laws are being made to make it more difficult financially on the married couple vs those who choose to live together.

Yes, some of the changes are good... but making it difficult to be married is not. And seeing so many of you say the government wants people to marry so they can benefit from it, is even worse in some ways. The truth of the matter is, the government doesn't care about the companies that make their living off weddings (wedding chapels, bridal gown stores, etc), nor do they care about our individual bank account, it is more profitable to them for us to be in debt honestly. All the government cares about is keeping things controlled and maintained in whatever way they choose at that particular moment in time. Churches make profit with or without weddings simply off the offerings, donations, events, and outreach they do. As far as magistrates, heck they get paid no matter if there is a marriage or not, they do other things too - as do judges. Hotels and etc make most their money from tourism, not Honeymooners. Same with airlines or buses or trains. Nobody is out planning a whole big scam to get people married. They are in fact doing the opposite these days. Making the laws on who is elgible for marriage simpler, the laws after getting married tougher, and the laws for getting divorced extremely difficult. By doing that, they know people are going to be less likely to want to marry, because it amounts to the "roach motel" for humans. "You can check in - but you don't check out"

It costs more to divorce than to marry and if your finances are already stretching you thin during your marriage because of the laws... that's difficult. What makes it even more difficult? Most places require a couple to be separated for 6months or longer before a divorce can be granted. And, if your spouse refuses to sign the paperwork? Then you have to pay another bill to advertise for an amount of time plus foot the entire divorce cost. So no, the government is not enticing people into marriage by making everything except saying "I do" harder, they are pushing people away from it. Please stop saying otherwise.