A sister of mine acts toxic around people who are close to her, or live with her. She attends therapy regularly and brags about how wonderful her therapist thinks she is in dealing with her trauma. It seems like she goes to therapy to get praises from her therapist and feel good about herself. Her toxic behavior has not changed over the years because she will not show her true color at therapy. She goes there as a victim recovering from someone else's abuse.

How can I get her to be her true-self and honest with her therapist? She is a completely different person behind closed doors than she is in public or with her therapist.

[piggy momma]

The short answer is that you can’t. Only when she starts dealing with the real reasons she’s in therapy will she see any growth or change.

There really isn’t anything you can do to make this happen. I wish I had something to suggest for you, but I don’t. Maybe someone else will have some suggestions.

[SorryShaped]

She won't change until she's ready. I hope it's soon, for her own sake and others'.

[healingme4me]

She keeps going, which is certainly a step in the right direction, I suppose? I'm not sure a therapist replicates the day to day nuances of day to day interactions, so thinking upon this dilemma presented, how would she even be able to present the side of herself that is reactive to her daily stimuli?

[Bill3]

She goes there as a victim recovering from someone else's abuse

Perhaps she actually is a victim recovering from someone else’s abuse.

Thanks Bill3. But being a victim of abuse does not excuse her toxic and emotionally-abusive behavior towards her family members and close friends.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

[divine1966]

You don’t really know what she shares in therapy and what exactly her therapist praises her for. It’s private. Saying that of course it’s wrong if she treats others bad, but she is in therapy maybe trying to deal with trauma first and then deal with current behavior. You can’t really control what she does or doesn’t talk about in therapy.

Are you in therapy yourself? I notice you have several threads about being surrounded by various people who are either toxic or treat you badly or you
think are not honest about something. Is it something you are addressing in therapy?

[TishaBuv]

I would think a good therapist would be getting the whole picture and seeing through a client who poses as a victim when they are also a perpetrator. I never got much praise from a therapist. Maybe your sister is telling you she is getting praise because that’s the way she sees it or that’s what she wants you to think.

[WishfulThinker66]

Originally Posted by ennie

Thanks Bill3. But being a victim of abuse does not excuse her toxic and emotionally-abusive behavior towards her family members and close friends.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Wrong, just plain wrong.

She is a product of the very toxicity around her during her formative years. That is most definitely going to shape her ability to form and maintain relationships now - especially if it is with those involved in her earlier abuse or who failed to protect her. The third wrong here is ignoring this.

==================================

As for the therapy. Please don't make your assumptions as you know not what goes on during sessions with any certainty. She might be saying to those around her that it is so positive as a coping mechanism. In reality, it could be that her therapy is incredibly difficult for her.

Two thoughts here: why would the therapy continue if it was so successful? Also, a good therapist would see through the way she presents herself and could form a more realistic picture of what is actually going on.

Originally Posted by divine1966

You don’t really know what she shares in therapy and what exactly her therapist praises her for. It’s private. Saying that of course it’s wrong if she treats others bad, but she is in therapy maybe trying to deal with trauma first and then deal with current behavior. You can’t really control what she does or doesn’t talk about in therapy.

Are you in therapy yourself? I notice you have several threads about being surrounded by various people who are either toxic or treat you badly or you
think are not honest about something. Is it something you are addressing in therapy?

Thank you.

Are you a therapist? I see a lot of reply posts from you to other people's problems (which I appreciate) but couldn't find a thread you started recently. Maybe I didn't look carefully.

Originally Posted by WishfulThinker66

Wrong, just plain wrong.

She is a product of the very toxicity around her during her formative years. That is most definitely going to shape her ability to form and maintain relationships now - especially if it is with those involved in her earlier abuse or who failed to protect her. The third wrong here is ignoring this.

==================================

As for the therapy. Please don't make your assumptions as you know not what goes on during sessions with any certainty. She might be saying to those around her that it is so positive as a coping mechanism. In reality, it could be that her therapy is incredibly difficult for her.

Two thoughts here: why would the therapy continue if it was so successful? Also, a good therapist would see through the way she presents herself and could form a more realistic picture of what is actually going on.

Okay, thank you. Maybe you are right; I shouldn't take her word for it. Maybe I need to stop believing everything she tells me.

[s4ndm4n2006]

you can't and shouldn't even try. trying to change others or make them do what we "think" they should do is a very common mistake of a lot of people when dealing with others. We can only advice, support and listen to others. So with that if you've told her how you think she should behave with a therapist you've done all you can. You can do nothing to force her to comply and if you could, would that really be a good thing?

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

you can't and shouldn't even try. trying to change others or make them do what we "think" they should do is a very common mistake of a lot of people when dealing with others. We can only advice, support and listen to others. So with that if you've told her how you think she should behave with a therapist you've done all you can. You can do nothing to force her to comply and if you could, would that really be a good thing?

That's true. I think I need to pray the serenity prayer:

"...help me to accept the things I can't [change]."

But I do hope she gets better because at the end of the day, I love and care about her.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by ennie

That's true. I think I need to pray the serenity prayer:

"...help me to accept the things I can't [change]."

But I do hope she gets better because at the end of the day, I love and care about her.

yeah I wouldn't necessarily say you should keep your mouth shut when you see someone you care about making the wrong choices but learn to be able to just try to influence them through sound advice.

Being a parent one has to learn that we sometimes know our kids will typically go against our sound advice and plan to just be there to pick up the pieces in the aftermath after they do. Same goes for friends and siblings

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by ennie

Thank you.

Are you a therapist? I see a lot of reply posts from you to other people's problems (which I appreciate) but couldn't find a thread you started recently. Maybe I didn't look carefully.

No I am not a therapist but I don’t need to be one to recognize benefits of therapy. Yes perhaps you didn’t look carefully as I in fact had a recent thread but regardless, opening new threads isn’t a requirement of this site. There are chats on this site and other features. If you are concerned about me not opening new threads perhaps it could be addressed in PM or reported to administration/moderators. You could let them know that you are concerned I haven’t opened new threads recently.

Ennie, I can understand your frustration with your sister. Like others said though and you now know, you can't change her. You could certainly bring up the subject to her if you can find a way to communicate that gently, and in a way that might make her receptive, but I'm not sure you'd want to put her good standing with her therapist vs how you see her into that conversation. It would be more of a "you know, I noticed you don't treat people well but expect them to treat you well." (if that is even whats going on. I'm just guessing) But it sounds like maybe the best thing might be to just go about your business knowing that you are taking care of yourself, as well as not stirring the pot with her. You say she's toxic and you love and care about her. I can relate to this too. I try not to spend time around toxic people. But when they're family, that can complicate things. Do you have to be around her much?

Originally Posted by KnitChick

Ennie, I can understand your frustration with your sister. Like others said though and you now know, you can't change her. You could certainly bring up the subject to her if you can find a way to communicate that gently, and in a way that might make her receptive, but I'm not sure you'd want to put her good standing with her therapist vs how you see her into that conversation. It would be more of a "you know, I noticed you don't treat people well but expect them to treat you well." (if that is even whats going on. I'm just guessing) But it sounds like maybe the best thing might be to just go about your business knowing that you are taking care of yourself, as well as not stirring the pot with her. You say she's toxic and you love and care about her. I can relate to this too. I try not to spend time around toxic people. But when they're family, that can complicate things. Do you have to be around her much?

That's so true... if I talk to her in a way that makes her defensive, I would be pushing all the wrong buttons. I should just focus on my relationship with her and tell her how she makes me feel without mentioning her therapist. Then she might tell her therapist about how I confronted her. That may turn into a therapist asking her more questions about the family dynamics. I'm so glad I asked questions on this forum before I opened my mouth (since you can't take back your words once you speak). Thank you for the great advice!

[Eilbertperez]

Maybe someone else will have some suggestions.