I went to Vegas with some friends last weekend and, prior to going, my therapist told me to try being more honest about myself. To not "use the mask," as it were. So I did, and I think I did okay. I didn't try to hide any aspect of myself or feign emotional responses. But we didn't exactly have profound heart-to-heart moments while messing around in Vegas, so I'm not sure what they saw of me.

A few things did come up, though. There were a few of those half-joke comments made about me. One was about my lack of reaction to the Sky Jump at the Stratosphere. The other was to a hyper-logical comment that I made about etiquette. It was only little stuff, and I didn't think much of it at the time. In retrospect, however, maybe there was something more to it. One of the friends, the one who's most open with me, kept going on about being anxious on the walk over to the Stratosphere, and then she flat-out asked me if I was at all anxious.

Should I broach the subject? And if so, how? Or should I wait for them to ask about it?

I tried poking back at them about why they were so anxious, but they just joked about it, and I think they thought I was joking as well.

More importantly, is this what being honest is? Am I doing the thing? Is this how you do the thing?

[unaluna]

Maybe you have the gene that makes you lack the fear response. I saw it on Law & Order Criminal Intent. Guy just didnt get excited at stuff.

Originally Posted by unaluna

Maybe you have the gene that makes you lack the fear response. I saw it on Law & Order Criminal Intent. Guy just didnt get excited at stuff.

I'm a psychopath.

[TunedOut]

Though the say similarities help people bond, I find differences interesting...

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by theoretical

I'm a psychopath.

Your memory is not too good either. Ive heard that before.

Originally Posted by unaluna

Your memory is not too good either. Ive heard that before.

My memory is garbage.

So about the thing...

[MickeyCheeky]

Well I'd say yes, that is being honest with them, although perhaps you're not getting the reactions that you expected? I'm not sure. Either way, you're trying and it doesn't hurt to try. At the very least you can see how it works out and report it back to your therapist when he/she asks you how it went. Sorry if this sint' very helpful Sending many safe, warm hugs to you, @theoretical!

[Open Eyes]

I am not so sure telling people you are a psychopath is going to help them understand you. Most people don't understand how someone can function without emotions. People tend to play off of each others emotions, even joking with each other tends to play off of emotions.

Yes, a lot of memory tends to be based on emotions, more than most realize. Hense the saying "We may not remember exactly what someone said, but we never forget how that person made us feel".

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

Well I'd say yes, that is being honest with them, although perhaps you're not getting the reactions that you expected?

I didn't go in with any expectations. I kinda just played it by ear.

Maybe I should just do as I do and let them figure it out.

[Open Eyes]

Before my father really declined I would stop and pick him up and take him for a ride. I KNEW the one place I could take him that would perk him up too. I would take him to a certain beach where he could look out at an island that he had lived on for a while with his father and he had so many good memories of things he experienced in that one area. He would stand there and tell me the same things he had told me before, and that never mattered to me because each time he would tell me things I could see him fill up with happiness as he remembered so many good times he had as a boy in that area. That is also where he said he wanted his ashes spread. That is reflecting how emotionally attached he was to that area.

You have shared that you don't have those kinds of attachments and have no problem picking up and going from one place to the next. You do learn and absorb information, you are very articulate and logical. You tend to be able to put things together, your challenged area is understanding the emotional connection to people and things, and bonding which is not just bonding to people but bonding to certain places too, perhaps even bonding to things as for some guys actually form bonds with their cars and boats often saying "she is so fine isn't she?" when he is talking about his truck or car or boat as if it's a woman.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I am not so sure telling people you are a psychopath is going to help them understand you. Most people don't understand how someone can function without emotions. People tend to play off of each others emotions, even joking with each other tends to play off of emotions.

Right, I'm not going to use the "P" word, loaded term as that is.

But that latter part, about people not understanding how I can function without emotions, is something that I think leads to a lot of misunderstanding. I don't know how to explain that. And I'm not sure what people think when I do try to explain it or when I simply don't react to certain things. Should I even bother trying?

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Before my father really declined I would stop and pick him up and take him for a ride. I KNEW the one place I could take him that would perk him up too. I would take him to a certain beach where he could look out at an island that he had lived on for a while with his father and he had so many good memories of things he experienced in that one area. He would stand there and tell me the same things he had told me before, and that never mattered to me because each time he would tell me things I could see him fill up with happiness as he remembered so many good times he had as a boy in that area. That is also where he said he wanted his ashes spread. That is reflecting how emotionally attached he was to that area.

You have shared that you don't have those kinds of attachments and have no problem picking up and going from one place to the next. You do learn and absorb information, you are very articulate and logical. You tend to be able to put things together, your challenged area is understanding the emotional connection to people and things, and bonding which is not just bonding to people but bonding to certain places too, perhaps even bonding to things as for some guys actually form bonds with their cars and boats often saying "she is so fine isn't she?" when he is talking about his truck or car or boat as if it's a woman.

Correct. I understand that people form emotional connections. I just don't, and I don't think I ever will.

[divine1966]

Many people have zero fear of heights and aren’t anxious of sky jump in Vegas or sky diving bungee jumping or anything else. It’s not unusual. Your lack of reaction to Sky Jump is neither here nor there. How does one suppose to react? I am afraid of heights but many people I know can’t care less. It’s nit abnormal. When questioned, normal honest answer would be “no I don’t get anxious doing things like that”. I don’t think it’s a big deal or indication of some abnormality. I have zero fear of public speaking. I can speak in front if anyone about anything. Others get very anxious. I have no problem telling people that I am not anxious in these situations whatsoever. And I am not a psychopath. Lol

You don’t have to tell people that you are psychopath (if you really are, that is) but you can tell them that you don’t particularly feel certain things much.

[divine1966]

There are many different degrees of emotional responses and emotional attachments. Some people are very emotional some are less and some little and some aren’t at all. You are on the far end of it. Some people on the opposite end singing kumbaya. Most people are somewhere in between. It’s not like everyone is so full of emotions and you aren’t. Everyone has different degree of it.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Many people have zero fear of heights and arenÂ’t anxious of sky jump in Vegas or sky diving bungee jumping or anything else. ItÂ’s not unusual.

I'm not about to go murder someone every vacation just to prove my street creds. Not without getting paid for it, anyway.

Originally Posted by divine1966

There are many different degrees of emotional responses and emotional attachments. Some people are very emotional some are less and some little and some arenÂ’t at all. You are on the far end of it. Some people on the opposite end singing kumbaya. Most people are somewhere in between. ItÂ’s not like everyone is so full of emotions and you arenÂ’t. Everyone has different degree of it.

Yes, and shallow affect is one of the major characteristics of psychopathy.

If there are so many manipulative, unempathetic, callous adrenaline junkies with a penchant for violence and a distaste of authority, what distinguishes them from psychopaths? How do you know someone is a psychopath?

[Open Eyes]

But that latter part, about people not understanding how I can function without emotions, is something that I think leads to a lot of misunderstanding. I don't know how to explain that. And I'm not sure what people think when I do try to explain it or when I simply don't react to certain things. Should I even bother trying?

Well, it's hard to get people to understand things they don't experience first hand themselves. For example, people who have not experienced ptsd often have all the wrong responses to those that suffer from it. They tend to say things like "don't allow and just snap out of it and don't let that bother you and you need to JUST get over it or "just let it go, you need to learn to LET THINGS GO" or just forget it and that was years ago you need to stop thinking about that and stop repeating it etc. This is because of how people simply do not understand how INTRUSIVE this challenge is and how the people who suffer from it don't WANT TO relive things that tend to get triggered from the past. Part of the reason many individuals who suffer from ptsd experience anger and at times can have short tempers, not because they are mean but because the are extremely frustrated with struggling with the challenge that so many people don't understand and constantly say some very dismissive things about. Also, there can be a spectrum to it where some individuals have it worse than others too or can experience a lot of triggers verses just a few from one traumatic event.

However, emotions are important too, we tend to remember things emotionally, even so much so that it can end up causing a person to want to find a way to heal, change, ease, help, restore, discover cures for and prevent. For example, someone really loves someone they end up having to watch slowly lose their mind to Alzheimers, so that person is so emotionally affected that they spend the rest of their lives trying to find a cure for it. For many people the only time they hear psychopath or sociopath is when there is someone who is killing a lot of people with no care at all for their victims. Most likely Epstein was a psychopath and who knows, perhaps they may study his brain to see if they can see what might be different about it. That being said, not all psychopaths turn out to be evil murderers, as mentioned in one of your other threads some become surgeons and perhaps even soldiers who can do things that others may not because they are too sensitive.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by theoretical

I'm not about to go murder someone every vacation just to prove my street creds. Not without getting paid for it, anyway.


Yes, and shallow affect is one of the major characteristics of psychopathy.

If there are so many manipulative, unempathetic, callous adrenaline junkies with a penchant for violence and a distaste of authority, what distinguishes them from psychopaths? How do you know someone is a psychopath?

Don’t know. Don’t really care to know if they are psychopaths or not. I am not into diagnosing people. What difference does it make? Sure there is quite a number of manipulative or callous people out there as well as adrenaline junkies. I don’t get hung up on diagnosis. I look at people’s behavior and if it suits me. If it does, then it’s all good and I’ll continue spending time with them and if not, I am moving on.

why not just say, "it doesn't bother me" and move on...without all the drama? I doubt people were looking for a deep diagnosis just a quick "this thing scares the bejesus out of me, does it you?" kind of thing. yes, no, or I can take it or leave it.

I went zip lining once. it was ok. if you ask me to go again and if I liked it I would answer, "it was ok, but I don't need to do it again." period end of story. no drama, no long history, just a quick answer.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Well, it's hard to get people to understand things they don't experience first hand themselves.

True. And maybe they don't need to know the full extent of it anyway.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Don’t know. Don’t really care to know if they are psychopaths or not. I am not into diagnosing people. What difference does it make? Sure there is quite a number of manipulative or callous people out there as well as adrenaline junkies. I don’t get hung up on diagnosis. I look at people’s behavior and if it suits me. If it does, then it’s all good and I’ll continue spending time with them and if not, I am moving on.

Good for you. But maybe I would like to have a vocabulary to understand myself and my experiences, which is something I've lacked for most of my life. I don't relate to other people, and consequently cannot share with them my feelings or experiences, not in any meaningful way.

Originally Posted by resurgam

why not just say, "it doesn't bother me" and move on...without all the drama?

I didn't say anything. I was just wondering if this is what people meant by "being yourself," or if the lighthearted joking would've been a good opportunity to open up about deeper topics. I'm guessing not.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by theoretical

Good for you. But maybe I would like to have a vocabulary to understand myself and my experiences, which is something I've lacked for most of my life. I don't relate to other people, and consequently cannot share with them my feelings or experiences, not in any meaningful way.

I didn't say anything. I was just wondering if this is what people meant by "being yourself," or if the lighthearted joking would've been a good opportunity to open up about deeper topics. I'm guessing not.

Often lighthearted joking is used by people to avoid deeper topics as well as prevent people to get to know them on a deeper level. I’ve met people who always joke, you can’t ever get to know them. They are always hiding behind their joking. Now lighthearted jokes are good, just not for that purpose

I think resurgam and I had similar suggestion of honestly directly saying that you aren’t afraid or anxious or bothered in these particular situation and you can share that you actually enjoy risk taking situations. It’s sharing. I’d not say it’s sharing on deep level as not being afraid of things is only one part of who you are, but it’s a start. It’s a step in “being yourself” with people

Going back to original conversation you had with guys. They were likely joking about their anxiety because it’s kind of hilarious plus joking elevates anxiety. People often laugh at their own fears. I have hilarious stories about myself in the mountains. Especially when surrounded by people who aren’t afraid of height.

Asking people why they are anxious will not produce any logical answer because they probably can’t explain, they are likely are just afraid of heights or open space or deep water or dark whatever other things some people might be afraid of. There is usually no explanation (sometimes there might be)

[hvert]

I don't think that was the time to open up about deeper topics. It's the kind of conversation friends might have before doing something like that. You shared how it made you feel and asked how it made them feel. It's hard to explain those feelings so it usually doesn't go a lot farther than 'oh, I can't stand heights!'

If you weren't intentionally trying to be honest, how would you have handled the conversation?

just be real. chances are most people aren't interested in your psychiatric diagnosis...be you without the drama. laugh, relax, etc. when people ask me how I am I don't delve deep I to my cptsd diagnosis or physical ailments because it doesn't define me and I doubt most people really want to know.

use a little humor, it's good for the soul. open up, relax the boundaries some. be more then your diagnosis...life is too short to worry about explaining it in every conversation and situation. when they ask "how are you?" say..hungry, tired, fine, looking ahead to the weekend, what ever.

you say you don't feel emotions but clearly this has you worried..about presenting yourself...wouldn't that in itself be an emotion? maybe not a huge wide grin or deep abysmal sadness....but I would classify concern as being emotional.

I don’t think it’s necessary to tell them your diagnosis. That’s your personal business. I would only tell someone if I wanted to and in most cases I personally wouldn’t want to.

I think they’re making comments and asking questions because if they are anxious about something they can’t wrap their minds around someone not being anxious. I think it’s just curiosity and if you don’t want to make anything out of it, then just don’t. I tend to just tell people “I’m just weird” when I don’t want to elaborate on something I do that’s different from them because in many cases I really don’t care to talk about things with people.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Asking people why they are anxious will not produce any logical answer because they probably can’t explain, they are likely are just afraid of heights or open space or deep water or dark whatever other things some people might be afraid of. There is usually no explanation (sometimes there might be)

Shame. It is very interesting, and I wonder what compels people to react the way they do.

Originally Posted by hvert

If you weren't intentionally trying to be honest, how would you have handled the conversation?

It isn't about the conversation so much, but the presentation. I would've giggled, joked, fidgeted, and otherwise acted giddy and anxious like everyone else was.

A question though, what do people feel when they're like this? Can they stop behaving this way?

Originally Posted by resurgam

when people ask me how I am I don't delve deep I to my cptsd diagnosis or physical ailments because it doesn't define me and I doubt most people really want to know.

you say you don't feel emotions but clearly this has you worried..about presenting yourself...wouldn't that in itself be an emotion? maybe not a huge wide grin or deep abysmal sadness....but I would classify concern as being emotional.

Of course I'm not going to tell people I'm a psychopath, not even if they flat-out asked me. That would be silly. By "deeper level," I mean the more serious scenarios which lead people to feeling anxious or afraid. Sure, they'll joke about my lack of reaction to whimsical adrenaline junkie games, but they might not find the humor if we come upon a fatal car accident and I still fail to react.

What do you feel when you're worried? I'm just trying something new and looking for advice.

Originally Posted by Sisabel

I think it’s just curiosity.

And admittedly, I am a little amused by people's curiosity.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by theoretical

Shame. It is very interesting, and I wonder what compels people to react the way they do.


It isn't about the conversation so much, but the presentation. I would've giggled, joked, fidgeted, and otherwise acted giddy and anxious like everyone else was.

A question though, what do people feel when they're like this? Can they stop behaving this way?


Of course I'm not going to tell people I'm a psychopath, not even if they flat-out asked me. That would be silly. By "deeper level," I mean the more serious scenarios which lead people to feeling anxious or afraid. Sure, they'll joke about my lack of reaction to whimsical adrenaline junkie games, but they might not find the humor if we come upon a fatal car accident and I still fail to react.

What do you feel when you're worried? I'm just trying something new and looking for advice.


And admittedly, I am a little amused by people's curiosity.

I don’t think something “compels” people to feel. It’s just a natural response. Its usually subconscious. I don’t know why I am afraid of heights, perhaps I think I might fall down, no clue. It’s just “is”. Yes it’s interesting.

Some fears are due to actual OCDs so it’s just how people are wired. And some are there without abnormality. It just is.

Imho most things people feel and react to aren’t on a very conscious level. That’s why when asked why people compel to feel and react certain way, you likely will not get an answer because there is no answer. Of course there are exceptions. Sometimes we can explain why we feel certain things

Most behaviors and reactions could be controlled (unless the person has a particular disorder). Most people control behaviors and reactions in public because of various reasons. But we can’t really control feelings and emotions, just a response to them

Originally Posted by divine1966

I don’t think something “compels” people to feel. It’s just a natural response. Its usually subconscious. I don’t know why I am afraid of heights, perhaps I think I might fall down, no clue. It’s just “is”. Yes it’s interesting.

Most behaviors and reactions could be controlled (unless the person has a particular disorder). Most people control behaviors and reactions in public because of various reasons. But we canÂ’t really control feelings and emotions, just a response to them

I meant what compels people to react a certain way, not what compels people to have the feeling. I'm assuming it's the feeling which influences how someone reacts, though they can control it to some extent. When I react, it's more like I'm just reading lines. If no one was around that I needed to act for, then I wouldn't react at all.