The ELEPHANT in the relationship

@RoxanneToto what is important for you to consciously realize about this is that you don't have to love your father. We tend to think we have to love a parent and if we don't it's our fault somehow, but that's not true. A parent has to earn our love, and a parent's behaviors can be bad for us and it's ok to decide to emotionally distance ourselves and set personal boundaries.

This is 100% spot on. I'm dealing with this with a childhood friend. I just had to set a boundary with her this week and the guilt is hard. But I've been reflecting on a lot and suddenly I'm seeing so much more clearly now. Literally ALL the things you stated are true with her. It's really very heartbreaking. Thank you for this post.

Yes, you shared this challenge here in this forum. Yes, this is upsetting to see happen in a friend. And the fact that she always calls you when she has been drinking shows how when she drinks she doesn't really care about the needs of others, instead she is most likely at a stage of inebriation where everything needs to revolve around her. This is why addiction in someone has symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder. It IS heartbreaking!!

No one sets out to have this challenge. The person finds out how alcohol not only reduces their inhibitions, but also helps them feel good because alcohol increases dopamine production in the brain. The problem is that the more often someone consumes alcohol to chase this dopamine high, the more alcohol it takes to obtain that high. And also what the person fails to realize is that alcohol damages and reduces the brain's serotonin levels. Lack of serotonin causes depression and irritability. The other thing alcohol does is the more a person consumes the more the alcohol affects the person's frontal lobe where the person makes conscious decisions about what they say and do.

Your friend calls you while intoxicated because your friend has relationship problems that causes her discomfort. The problem with your friend is that she doesn't have the awareness that her addiction is the ROOT of the relationship problem in the first place. Your friend BELIEVES that the alcohol helps her cope, she doesn't RECOGNIZE that the alcohol IS THE PROBLEM.

You are working very hard on your own sobriety. It IS A LOT OF WORK to learn how to live your life SOBER. You want to care about your friend but the truth @hopeless2015, is that you need to focus on YOURSELF. What you need is the support from others that understand and RESPECT this challenge you are dealing with and do not expect you to give something you can't give where you instead need to stay focused on helping yourself. And the problem with your helping this friend when she calls you under the influence is all you are actually doing is ENABLING her. And even becoming a codependent.

Your friend is living her life under the umbrella of addiction and she is COGNITIVELY DISTORTING because of that addiction. You are not able to actually help her and I know that's sad. That is the upsetting aspect of this disease.

@hopeless2015, do not allow yourself to feed into guilt feelings. I know that is a challenge but you cannot help this individual. This individual HAS TO face the fact that she has a problem with alcohol and the only way she can get into a healthier direction in her life is to FACE this challenge and finally choose to do something about it.

The Science Behind People Who Get Angry When They're Drunk

I think this problem is scary. It's very important NOT to fuel this problem when someone is under the influence.

Having thoughts after a conversation I had with my older brother yesterday after he talked about my father and his drinking and getting so drunk he fell in the bathroom and hit his head bad on the toilet. He would go out with my mother, drink and ignore her and she would drink because she felt so hurt. My brother told me this story three times and each time he said "I was so frightened". My brother has anger about the things he saw when my father drank. I don't say he already told me what he witnessed either, I already know he just needs to tell me and I need to comfort him. My father denied he had a problem and never admitted he had a problem, not even after he fell down the stairs so drunk and broke some ribs. He even decided that if he drank wine it was not the same as drinking hard alcohol. Well, a person just gets drunk faster with wine because it's absorbed in the esphogus instead of how hard liquor has to go through the digestive track.

I have seen people that have addiction problems and have relationship problems say "he/she made me drink, smoke pot, and do cocaine" came across that YEARS ago with friends that had partners that had issues. I have seen the fights about the money it costs too. I have seen people blame their drinking addiction on their partner many times. Sorry but, that's JUST AN EXCUSE. I actually live where I live to distance from that and have only come to realize even moving doesn't mean you won't see/experience it.

DO YOU KNOW that alcohol and drug addiction has MANY narcissistic traits to it? Watching two alcoholics/addicts fight is like watching two narcissists fight. I saw that with an old friend of mine where both her and her husband had problems, they are divorced now. She was one that was one angry drunk.

I experience cognitive dissonance when I talk about this disease. I have had TOO MANY people that I have cared about struggle with alcoholism. I have had DRUNKS talk to me and USE me for a shoulder to cry on and then TREAT ME SO BADLY. Oh, my friend, my friend, my friend UNTIL I have a boundary, then it's she is bad, she is bad, she is bad IGNORE her. Alcholism also has LOVE BOMBING in it too. The fake Aww you are SO NICE condescension that is uttered along with the level of high. I know the mood shifts and have seen it so many times in my life. I was a bartender many years ago and how wonderful I am when I serve them that drink. Aww, thank you so much, I appreciate that so much. Then later when it's busy that same person after drinking for a while forgets that and it's "where is my drink!".

The interesting part is when the alcohol is at the level where it acts like a truth serum. I always felt that if I could sit with THAT part and possibly comfort THAT part that's under the curtain showing the part the person keeps hidden, MAYBE, that may help. What reminds me of that is when I read about narcissists and how under that personality disorder is a very troubled child. I never really thought about the science behind how alcohol affects the brain when I waited for this stage to surface.

When I sat with my dad while he drank his wine, that's when he would talk about things he experienced when he was younger. Just before Christmas I opened a box full of pictures from my parents home and I came across some very early pictures of my father. I came across a picture of him when he was maybe a year and a half and he was such a cute little boy. Then I came across a picture of him in his Navy uniform and he was JUST A KID STILL. When I saw that picture of him, I remember our talks as we sat by the fire in the kitchen and he had his wine and shared about the things he saw and experienced in WWII when he served. He sat across from me as an older man, seemingly more experienced than me. Yet, when I saw that picture and recalled the last time I talked to him about that time in his life, I realized he really was just still a boy when he experienced all he shared.

The last time I sat in front of a fire with my dad was at my older sister's house. It was at one of her gatherings and she had a fire going and I noticed him sitting alone and in his own little world thinking, as he did all his life. And I went over and sat with him and asked him some questions because I knew where he was, and he opened up and talked about the War again. And after I listened (this time he was sober) I looked at him and said, "That must have been hard Dad, because at that age you were still really just a boy, still so very, very young yet to witness all that". And for the first time he looked at me AS THAT BOY, that boy that had always needed a presence to comfort that very young teenager who had joined before he even graduated from high school. All his life, inside him was that young boy that experienced things that most can't even imagine. He was sober because he simply got too old to drink. And that one time I got to comfort that very young boy in him and I knew it because when he looked at me, he looked at me as that young teen always trying to find his way past that stage of his life.

There was another time when I went to visit him when my mother was in the hospital. He was alone in his office in the barn and he had been mentally declining and my sister had angrily ordered him to find something and when I saw him he was soaked in sweat as it was like an oven in that office and I talked him out of that dilemma and asked him if he would like to take a break and take a ride to the beach that he loved because it was full of good memories when he was a boy before the war. My sister had already taken his car away so he felt lost and abandoned and dependent without his car. So when I offered to take him for that ride he answered with a quiet lift and sigh of relief and said "ok, that sounds great".

When I took him to this beach and we stood on the boardwalk looking out at the island and this place he experienced so many good things (before the war), he talked about how he wanted half his ashes spread there and half his ashes put on the ship he spent time on where all his shipmates got killed when their compartment was hit by a bomb. He did not go on that tour with his ship mates, and yet that day he let me know how half of him never got over losing all his ship mate friends.

I came across this article where Anthony Hopkins shares his many years of sobriety. He talks about learning to not be afraid, and ironically my father looked a lot like Anthony Hopkins, especially as they both aged. My dad never found sobriety until the last years of his life. And when I think about alcoholism, as I see the suffering it caused my mother, myself, and listening to my older brother who is always angry. I also think about this young teen that struggled all his life with all the things he saw and experienced much too young in that War. And when I went to visit my parent's home where my sister would not leave me alone and was so incredibly intrusive and mean, I walked around and could see stacks and stacks of books about WWII. I tried to find the one book my father asked me to buy him where I sat and listened to the author talk and my father said it was the best written book he ever read and it turned out to be the last book he ever read too. I had it signed by the author too and it was one thing I had asked for but my sister hid it with her creepy way of aluding but denying she said she kept the signed books aside and that was the only signed book my dad had and it had value as the author passed away. I wanted to read this book my father liked so much. And I have my father's war box that my brother asked for, and sadly my sister made it a point to take out anything of value in it proving she did not even care about desecrating something about my father that deserved to stay intact.

This has been a challenging thread for me in that I try to respect the disease and yet at the same time it destroys relationships and leaves some deep hurts and resentments. I do hear that when my brother vents his anger about "dad was an alcoholic selfish man". Yes, there is that aspect that comes with alcoholism, I have most definitely experienced this first hand.

So here is the link I came across that reminded me of my dad and the effort to stop running away by turning to alcohol that reminded me of my dad and this disease this morning and how it has affected my life.

Anthony Hopkins celebrates 45 years of sobriety after nearly 'drinking myself to death'

I have been on the receiving end of this too many times to count. It really hit home with me when I read about how alcoholism has many aspects of narcissitic personality disorder in it.

I have loved people and hated what this disease did to them It definitely has a place within my ptsd. Many here are familiar with my long ongoing challenge with my older sister. One time my husband witnessing how bad she can get, turned to me and said "She acts like an alcoholic, is she still drinking, maybe she is a closet drinker?" And then he said "She may be a dry drunk", all I know is she can sure go into some damn scary rages. I do know that for a while she did drink and get high a lot. I don't see her enough now to know either way.

Came across this article about alcohism and not only how prevelent it is in hollywood but again how it destroyed a relationship.

Ben Affleck On Alcohol Addiction And When He Began 'Drinking Too Much'

Open Eyes, I have been thinking about this more and more as I have someone in my social circle that I keep safe distance from who is a closet alcoholic, and it's really hard to watch the people in our circle enable them. Not much I can do. I draw clear boundaries around it, and I don't enable it, but I get really frustrated watching our friends enable them and then watching my friends get upset when they inevitably hurt them because their addiction is more important that their friendships. I only say closet because we all see and acknowledge the problem but no one will deal with it directly and bluntly. I'm not really close enough with them to say anything, but I don't tiptoe around it when we are in groups together either.

It's hard to watch them essentially abuse their friends. I'll probably not be hanging around them much anymore and that will just be my boundary.

It's wise to keep a distance because when it comes to this disease a person tends to be "there" or present for themselves. I found this particular article in what Affleck shared interesting because he shared how alcoholism is actually very common in Hollywood. Truth is, Hollywood has pretty much always been that way too, and what was common was to take measures to hide this reality and maintain "the image" that the general public would pay to see and think was "special".

Truth is, that even though his wife loved him, it got to be too hard for her to live with because SHE knows first hand what it's like to see him drunk and careless and utterly self absorbed in the disease. Truth is, they don't think of you, especially when they are consuming alcohol or drugs. They don't remember how they chose to say things or do things that hurt you or how they USED you at a time that you were struggling with something important to you.

Notice how Affleck is STILL talking about himself in this article? I, I, I and not yet seeing how his wife suffered? He is still grieving for himself and not for his wife.

Did you ever have someone hurt you and decide it was ok to ask you about this or that while consuming alcohol and not REALLY see YOU but what they needed themselves? How they chose to HURT you and say mean things and NEVER stop to think how their behavior HURT you? How they may talk about appologizing but you KNOW that they will NEVER appologize to you and really see how their behavior was wrong? No, they cannot see where you are but instead ONLY WHERE THEY ARE. That is why this disease has a lot of narcissistic behavior patterns.

Constantly in the "I" still and mourning for "self". It's part of the recovery and something I had to learn to understand. A long time ago I sat and watched a movie with Andy Garcia and Meg Ryan called "When a man loves a woman" and it's still hard for me to watch that movie without crying because of how much I can relate to the husband and what he went through while the wife got sober.

I came across an article that talks about what happens when someone consumes alcohol that many who have a problem do not realize. Also, what a person who is physically alcohol dependent experiences if they stop drinking that's important to know.
A timeline of symptoms to expect during alcohol withdrawal and how to get proper treatment

It's very important to understand that the problem DOES NOT just go away on it's own.

From the article above:

It doesn't JUST fix itself and understanding why this is so is important not only for the alcohol addict but for those who are on the receiving end of the mood swings the addict experiences.

I tried so hard to help a friend stop and learn to live her life a different way, I could not and she died at age 50ish. As a result, I distance from active alcoholics, however, I DO respect those that are dedicated to living their lives sober. It's VERY hard to deal with an active alcoholic and many have shared the deep hurts and even trauma it can cause. And the alcoholic doesn't WANT to recognize that when they are actively engaged in the disease.

When I sit and think about what I read I realize that all those years ago because I put my foot down, I saved my husband's life. Yet, I am so grateful for all the individuals that mentored him in the AA program that helped him slowly learn to live his life sober.

All those years ago I did not have the information that I shared here in this thread. So, I did not know what someone dealt with when experiencing the progression that takes place with this disease. My husband is very active in AA and helping others learn to stay sober. It's been a challenge with Covid and just recently they have been having meeting gatherings with social distancing. My husband explained how much that helps verses the Zoom meetings. Having support is crucial when it comes to learning how to stay sober.

Giving thought to learning how alcohol affects the brain, it explains a lot of behaviors that a person who doesn't have a problem experiences. The problem with someone that is abusing alcohol is that they tend to act on impulse instead of really thinking about what they say and choose to do. Things that a sober individual would not choose to do, the individual abusing alcohol often does without realizing how their behavior is inappropriate. Often an individual consuming alcohol to maintain will say things they should not say, it can actually be embarrassing for the person who doesn't have a problem.

That is what I noticed about the friend I had that was an alcoholic. She would choose to say things that were very inappropriate and LOST her ability to understand that she can't expect ALL people to listen to her drama issues. And at a certain level of alcohol in her brain there was no way to even help her refrain as that would only make things worse. She would either get loud and make it worse or she would just ignore and continue her behavior.

It tends to be about whatever feels good at whatever level of alcohol she consumed. It was a waste of time to sit and talk to her as I did try often. When she consumed a certain amount anything I had said not to do went right out the window.

I am sharing this because often people that are in relationships with someone who abuses alcohol don't truely realize why a partner or friend or family member seems to respond but then doesn't really change the behavior pattern. It's the way this disease affects the individual that gets confused and it doesn't matter how receptive the individual is, they will continue the behavior because of how the alcohol consumption is affecting them.

So, it was a good friend that was divorcing her alcoholic husband that explained to me how to know "there is a problem". It was not long before I had a fight with my husband who once again drank until he blacked out and was out all night. Back then there were no cell phones so it was not easy to find out where a person was or if they were ok. So I ended up spending the night at my friend's house and she took me to an Alanon meeting. I will never forget that experience because the people I saw all looked horrible, literally as though the life was sucked out of them. And the next thing I know several of these people were telling me to leave my husband. I did hate it when he drank but I really did love him and certainly was not ready to experience what I did at that meeting.

It took me time to think about that experience and finally that's when I said to my husband that I could not live the way I was living anymore and that either he did something about his drinking or I would divorce him. That same night he went to an AA meeting and 29 years later has not drank any alcohol. He came home admitting that he did not realize he had a problem and that he was going to stop drinking.

When he celebrates another year of sobriety, while I do appreciate that he kept his word, I also remember how it was when I had to worry. I also remember how just not drinking was only the first step and all the things he had to learn which kept him from maturing. The way he ran away by choosing alcohol not realizing it was inhibiting his level of maturity that he had to work on.

He remained active in AA and he continued to get help and he helped others. So, when I think of the years I also think about how he also was committed to helping/saving others too. Every once in a while I hear him talking with others because someone went out and drank and no one knew where he was. It reminded me of what it felt like for me when that happened. Then he would have to leave early to go and pick up someone that lost their license and he would get that person to a meeting. Then there are the older ones that can't drive anymore and they take turns getting him to meetings or have even had small meetings at the individual's house.

People tend to think of an alcoholic as some homeless bum. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It affects people from all walks of life. Yes, even professionals that hold high positions that one would never think had the problem. Yet, in the rooms, none of that matters and what matters is helping someone learn how to live their life differently.

It's a big decision to stay with someone that has a problem. I had not realized that when I chose to stay and support my husband's effort to stop drinking and change his lifestyle. There is always that part of the person that will be involved with this disease even when no longer actively in the disease. I try to think about that in a way that means "saving" the lives of others and respecting how challenging that can be.

I do not care to engage with someone active in the disease because they do NOT have the ability to respect my space. Their needs happen and the world has to revolve around them no matter what I am dealing with. And they can be very entitled when it's actually inappropriate. It's as though all else disappears except their needs and they do not even see it. There is definitely a lot of narcissism in this disease.

When someone finally commits to living their life sober, depending on what stage they are at they have to learn to go to a meeting instead of the bar they know or go to a meeting instead of sitting at night drinking away their frustrations. And for those who drink daily, they often have to go to meetings during the day instead of grabbing that dose of alcohol to function. They have to learn that when they get the urge to call their sponsor and to remember their sponsor is helping them and not take their frustrations out on the sponsor. They DO support each other and agree to be on the support list to call instead of grabbing the alcohol. I do remember that all too well and even now when my husband insists on taking calls when certain individuals call him.

I have met a husband and wife that both had problems and they would go to meetings together constantly. Sometimes one partner would decide to get sober first even though their partner still engaged. Then after a while their partner seeing things get better would also end up working at it too. Gradually, these individuals learned they could socialize WITHOUT the aide of the alcohol and still enjoy interacting with others.

I think that Covid restrictions has hindered these important and necessary meetings that many depend on. It's amazing watching how people who know the importance have created other ways to have people be able to interact when needed. Many had set up ways on their own property with bonfires and places to sit socially distancing and helping others get there to attend. It's extremely cold out right now so these efforts had to stop.

There is also a fear that some who have several years sober may give in and drink and that's very bad because it's not like being able to start over, instead it goes right back to where that individual left off. And I have learned that some did drink and died of liver failure because of it. I don't like to overhear that because that's what happened to my friend, her liver and organs all failed even though she was still relatively young.

I have this thread because I know people really do not realize how alcohol addiction can ruin relationships. Even the alcoholic often doesn't get it and would prefer to believe it's not THE problem. And instead it's always someone else's fault there is a problem when problems come up in relationships.

Recently I had another talk with my older brother and HIS grieving consists of his memories of things he witnessed when my parents came home from the club they belonged to drunk. He talked about one night that it was so bad he was VERY frightened. Last time I called him he was in such a bad mood, I thought maybe I was bothering him and it made me question "am I being an inconvenience?" Then I talked to him the next day and he shared that he got in an arguement with his boss and his boss is an alcoholic. He talked about happiness is a choice and that even though he had a terrible day he did not bring that problem into his own relationship. He doesn't remember how he sounded when I called him. Once he shared with me things he experienced with our parents that frightened him, I think when he deals with his boss when he drinks and gets hard to interact with it triggers him.

I posted in someone's thread about grieving and how it's hard to know what to say sometimes. I talked about how I never got involved with Facebook and that I am a very private person. What I didn't share is one of the reasons I don't and want to be private is because I don't want people who had problems with alcohol and drugs to know anything about me. My husband engages facebook and one day he located someone from my past, an old boyfriend that I was so in love with but he loved his drugs/alcohol the most. And this guy shared his years sober and how he was grateful to those who helped him because he was very addicted. A part of me was happy for him that he got help, yet, there is that other part that really suffered because of his commitment to engaging and how unhealthy that was for me. They don't see themselves as ABUSERS, instead they tend to see themselves as VICTIMS. They don't SEE the narcissistic abusive behavior patterns that exists in their problem either. They don't SEE what it does to others who ARE true VICTIMS OF ABUSE. They are not on the RECEIVING END of THEIR PROBLEM.

Truth? and HONESTY? Oh they may preach it but THE ARE NOT BEING HONEST!!. It's NEVER their fault either is it? In a relationship where the affects of the alcohol or whatever drug hurts a partner that is a form of being CHEATED ON. Oh, maybe it's not with another person HOWEVER it's still a relationship that DAMAGES as it's cheating with the alcohol or drugs or both.

All my life I have been on the receiving end of how people that drink BEHAVE BADLY. And they are ENABLED by others "oh, you don't drink that much, oh you are not a bad person" etc. I sit and listen to my brother when he shares even though it's hard to hear. Why? Because he has EVERY RIGHT to talk about how he was HURT AND ABUSED.

Recently I read an article about how Jamie Lee Curtis just celebrated 22 years of sobriety and one thing she said that stuck with me is how "she was at war with herself" while she was active in the drinking. I sat and thought about that statement a lot. And the truth is that given the way alcohol affects the brain and how someone uses it to cope, all it does is create this ongoing war with self. It's not coping either, instead it's an effort to escape. For anyone that SUFFERED because of this challenged relationship with SELF, the last thing you want to see is someone saying "It's ok, you can drink" when you have suffered the LOSS or consequences of what it's like to engage with that kind of individual. When someone is at war with self like this, there is no room for a HEALTHY relationship because it's mostly all about the person who is at war with self. So, in reality THAT is why this problem has so many narcissistic behavior patterns. And there IS a trail of broken relationships and resentments. And often "this person failed me" comments. No, it's never the problem drinkers fault or the poor decisions they made that put them in the position in the first place. This is discussed in different articles including the one I am going to post a link to today. What is good about THIS article is how it discusses even more about how alcohol consumption affects the brain. And THAT is what my older brother witnessed that frightened him so badly. He has brought that experience up more than once. I never let him know he already told me either, it's clear to me he needs to share it and finally get comforted for how it deeply affected him. He deserves to be able to grieve his own losses.

Here is the newest article: There are other articles that provide important information so any reader will LEARN why it's important not to enable someone who is engaging and sharing the problems they experience as a result. You are NOT helping someone who has a problem by enabling that person. And for anyone who is following that has a problem, please get help as you are only in denial and you need to get real help. You are NEVER going to solve your ongoing battle through using alcohol. Make the decision that you deserve better and get help.

Drinking Alcohol and The Risk of Violence | Alcohol.org

Here is another article with important information. It's important to understand what IS changing the other person in whatever the relationship is be it friend, parent, spouse, or boyfriend or sibling or even one's own child. Often individuals with anxiety disorders turn to alcohol to cope, however, the alcohol's true affects on the brain actually contribute to making the challenge even worse. We often talk about how it's not appropriate to diagnose another person and how that is a job for a professional. It's important to keep that in mind when someone shares the problems they have when consuming alcohol do not diagnose. Telling that person they do not have a problem is inappropriate in that only a professional can determine that. However, what my friend told me many years ago now does ring true, "If alcohol is brought up during relationship challenges there IS a problem". Then she took me to an alanon meeting and that's when I finally told my husband I could no longer live with his problem. That is the day 29 years ago he went an AA meeting and learned he DID have a problem and he has not had a drink since. He has made many friends that also are committed to living their lives sober.

Mental Health and Alcohol Abuse: Pychological Effects of Drinking

What happens in a relationship with someone who has a problem with alcohol is there is no room for ANY healthy relationship as long as the ALCOHOL addiction use comes first for the individual. It is recognized as a mental illness. Truth is after spending time reading about it with what is known now compared to when I was so much younger, what I am learning makes me see it in a different light.

There is a lot of talk about narcissists and gaslighting and how hard that is on the person on the receiving end. However, people who have alcohol addictions DO practice gaslighting. They make up things to fill in the blanks of what they can't remember. They don't want to know they have a problem so they gaslight others and themselves. They can be nice and friendly and then they can be down right mean. And it all depends on where they are in terms of their alcohol consumption and withdrawl where their body and mind is craving the alcohol. Yes, Jamie Lee Curtis described it perfectly too, "it's being at war with self" and for a friend or spouse or family member, it's more of being their victim and living around their "constant war with self".

It's hard when society normalizes drinking alcohol. When I was young it was extremely normalized and I was not one that cared to consume very much. I remember how others tended to make fun of me because of that too. I used to have two glasses of wine and switch to tea. And then I switched to gingerale so they would not make fun of me and think I was drinking. All my life I had to deal with those who ran to alcohol while I ran from it.

I gave up singing on stage because of it. I got attacked on stage, stalked, chased in parking lots, and pushed into my car by a drunk and he began trying to pull off my dress and fortunately a friend pulled up and stopped it. It contributed to my desire to be a private person, something I had not consciously realized. I did not drink much at all when I performed, I had to pay attention and the singing and music was what relaxed me. All the things said about performing? They are true in that everyone wants a piece of you. Adding alcohol into that mix is especially toxic. It doesn't matter how I felt, all that mattered was how that person under the influence felt. When I was young none of what I have posted was explained and a lot of it is knowledge gained many years later.

I loved my father but he did have a problem. My therapist told me to watch this series called "Mad Men" and I only managed to watch one episode or two and it reflected what it was like for my parent's generation. Drinking alcohol was so normalized, during business lunches and dinners and happy hours. So, it was not all that unusual for men like my father to think they did not really have a problem. It was assumed those that had the problem were the ones that had to drink even in the morning and every day. Those who had the problem were those who could not work and earn a living. Yet many learned how to work and have a problem with alcohol unknowingly, mostly because it was so prevelant.

The more I learn about it, the more I appreciate how my husband chose to stop rather than lose me. He had to learn how to live his life very differently. He had to learn how to make different friends and distance from the friends he knew as drinking buddies. People have said some very MEAN things to me over the years too. I try to keep in mind that it's people who still have problems and don't want to know, or people who don't really understand what "love" means. Yes, there are times you love someone that loves you enough to stop and try, and there will always be those who will condemn. The one thing I have learned is there will always be those who don't care to respect the journey and what it means. So again, I have learned to be private about it because I know the consequences of sharing it. I do admit, it is very much a part of the ptsd I struggle with.

I am grateful to those who commit to the journey of learning to live their lives sober. It made it possible for my husband to learn to do the same with a lot of support. It IS important to see this ELEPHANT because it does cause so much pain. It's too hard to argue with someone who is actively engaged and if they need to choose the alcohol over a healthy relationship, then it's time to completely distance. Otherwise, they keep pulling you into their disease just as a narcissist practices "hoovering". And they don't even realize it and want you to enable them and babysit them instead while the keep embracing their disease.

Is this person a narcissist? This is often something asked by those in any kind of relationship with an alcoholic.

Here is a good article that explains why that question comes up.

10 Ways Narcissists and Alcoholics Are Similar | Psychology Today