[lovethesun]

Some of you may remember a post I put on this site several months ago about my sister in law (Kay) who berated me on social media 3 years ago, then stopped speaking to me when I stood up for myself and called her out on it. In my post I explained that after not speaking to me or anyone else in my family for 3+ years, she sent a diamond necklace to my daughter last summer for her 16th bday along with a note gushing about how much she loved her. I found it very odd but took all of your words of advice and took the polite approach of having my daughter hand write a note of thanks and mail it to her. No response to the thank you note nor any further contact from her.

Fast forward 6 months to this past Christmas. Kay and her family came to NC for a visit. They stayed with one of Kay's friends, who coincidentally, lives just a few streets over from us in the same neighborhood. Kay's husband and daughters came over to our house several times during their visit to hang out with us and have dinner. Kay never came. Now it begs the question. If our 16 year old daughter mattered so much to Kay that she spent the money on a diamond necklace and took the time to write the gushy love note and mail it to her for her birthday, why would she not come over to see our daughter? Especially when she was staying only 3 streets over and her husband and family came to our house? We asked Kay's husband why Kay did not come, he said she was busy seeing her friend. Oh really? Hmmmmm. That explanation smells like 3 day old tuna to me. Personally, I was glad to not see Kay. Over the years I've found her to be a very insulting person, a liar and a manipulative witch. Her actions have proven me right all these years. But to me it's the principal of the matter. My daughter didn't even want the necklace and felt weird receiving it from her. So again, why go to all the trouble and expense to send that gift, then ghost us on Christmas 6 months later? Makes no sense!

[Open Eyes]

Lol “smells like a three day old tuna”. That made me chuckle. Lovethesun people can behave strangely and it may be that this woman doesn’t like it when people stand up to her or call out her bad behavior. This is something my older sister does so I sympathize. It’s not unusual for this type of personality be nice and seem generous and yet find excuses to be absent the way you describe. It’s some sort of strange way an individual like this gains a sense of control. You are correct it’s “disordered”. I sat across from a few therapists describing many strange behaviors I observed from my sister and every single therapist told me the behavior patterns my sister engaged were very disordered.

Honestly, it’s best that you keep a distance from this woman.

[Open Eyes]

It’s not unusual for individuals disordered like this to do strange things with objects like this either. Always something about giving and also withdrawing appropriate attention. Yes it can be twisted and strange hence disordered.

[MickeyCheeky]

i am So Sorry this is happening. i am not sure why she is behaving this way but perhaps she also isn't interested in seeing you again as harsh as that may sound so i Apologize for it. Perhaps i am wrong of course and there may be other reasons, including her husband simply telling the truth. Sending many safe, warm hugs to BOTH you, @lovethesun, your Family, your Friends, your daughter, your sister, your sister's Family and ALL of your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, OK?!

[Fuzzybear]

[Rive.]

I would not spend much more mental energy on Kay.

Actions do speak louder than words. Her actions speak loud enough.

[poshgirl]

Lovethesun, you have my sympathy!

My sister-in-law is exactly the same. Life revolves around her, or so she'd like to think. Delights in telling everyone how much something has cost (my niece's new mobile phone one example). Strange behaviour for a once single mother who struggled until she met my brother. After incident where she lashed out at me, told my mother she thought about me then started to send me cake after mother had been there for meals.

Fast-forward to just before Christmas when we went to deliver presents. As mother and I had formed bubble due to Covid, my brother and niece came out to car and chatted. Where was sister-in-law? In the house. If that was a way of punishing me for not apologising to her, only one person looked foolish, her! Yes, she is manipulative and my brother is daft enough to put up with it, choosing the quiet life instead of challenging her. She also lies about me and some family members are daft enough to believe it.

Can see similarities with your sister-in-law's behaviour. If the remainder of her family are happy to spend time in your company, then the problem's definitely not you. Hopefully, one day she'll realise what she's missing but as the saying goes "don't hold your breath". That type of person doesn't change, they just move onto their next victim.

[lovethesun]

Thank you all for your comments and input. I'm glad you all feel it's not me. My sister-in-law Kay has treated other people this way to. Same pattern. She lashes out at them or has a massive disagreement with them on some issue and expects the person to take it. If the person defends themselves or their point of view, even if done respectfully, Kay will blast them back then ghost them. Kay had a disagreement with my husband once and when my husband refused to just take it and defended himself, she stopped speaking to him for 7 years.

[Open Eyes]

@lovethesun, what your sister in law is showing you by her behaviors is sadly something she most likely picked up years ago from what she experienced from her parents. Often people unknowingly mimic what they witnessed or experienced from a parent that most likely did not show them how to get past challenges. It's very likely how she herself was treated for having her own opinion, perhaps she was punished and no communication or acceptance was experienced for herself. Or, she witnessed that happen by witnessing how her parents treated each other. Behaviors you see as problematic are often considered normal for the person that is engaging these strange behaviors. Often there is a lack of awareness involved that you can see that the other individual doesn't see. This is what "disordered" means.

It can actually be sad because this SIL's behaviors and lacks are keeping her from being able to interact normally with others. And because her husband has grown used to her disordered behaviors he knows to interact like this without her present (visiting you without her). He has gotten used to how she tends to create these challenges with others and can't get over them normally but instead insists on not engaging at all.

I use the term disordered because what a lot of people tend to do these days is go right to the label "narcissist" as that is the easiest way to label behaviors in others that seem selfish. Truth is often narcissists can be rather charming and charismatic instead. Narcissism itself is on a spectrum and there is actually healthy narcissism. Not all challenging behaviors equate to narcissist. Avoidance doesn't always equate to narcissist. You did the right thing in sending a note of thanks from your daughter. You were willing to welcome a visit from her while she was visiting a friend close by. Her behavior is signifying that she doesn't know how to engage after a disagreement on opinion. She has most likely lost a sense of control and her reaction to distance like this or to blow up in a disagreement is what she knows when things don't go her way. She lacks when it comes to social skills.

This is something you can talk about with your daughter who is also confused as to what the absence and lack of further interation means.

[lovethesun]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

@lovethesun, what your sister in law is showing you by her behaviors is sadly something she most likely picked up years ago from what she experienced from her parents. Often people unknowingly mimic what they witnessed or experienced from a parent that most likely did not show them how to get past challenges. It's very likely how she herself was treated for having her own opinion, perhaps she was punished and no communication or acceptance was experienced for herself. Or, she witnessed that happen by witnessing how her parents treated each other. Behaviors you see as problematic are often considered normal for the person that is engaging these strange behaviors. Often there is a lack of awareness involved that you can see that the other individual doesn't see. This is what "disordered" means.

It can actually be sad because this SIL's behaviors and lacks are keeping her from being able to interact normally with others. And because her husband has grown used to her disordered behaviors he knows to interact like this without her present (visiting you without her). He has gotten used to how she tends to create these challenges with others and can't get over them normally but instead insists on not engaging at all.

I use the term disordered because what a lot of people tend to do these days is go right to the label "narcissist" as that is the easiest way to label behaviors in others that seem selfish. Truth is often narcissists can be rather charming and charismatic instead. Narcissism itself is on a spectrum and there is actually healthy narcissism. Not all challenging behaviors equate to narcissist. Avoidance doesn't always equate to narcissist. You did the right thing in sending a note of thanks from your daughter. You were willing to welcome a visit from her while she was visiting a friend close by. Her behavior is signifying that she doesn't know how to engage after a disagreement on opinion. She has most likely lost a sense of control and her reaction to distance like this or to blow up in a disagreement is what she knows when things don't go her way. She lacks when it comes to social skills.

This is something you can talk about with your daughter who is also confused as to what the absence and lack of further interation means.

Open Eyes, Thank you very much for this insight. It helps to explain alot of this behavior from Kay. I will also discuss this with my daughter. I think that's one of the behaviors from Kay that made me most angry, the toying with my daughter's emotions. It's too bad Kay acts this way as her ability to interact with people is greatly damaged by this. I'm not going to stand being bullied by her and I suspect many others won't and don't either. And you are spot on correct about her husband. His answer to all this is to not engage. That's how he copes because he is afraid of her and it's easiest for him to do things with out her and make excuses for her. I have a very long list of situations where Kay was absent and only her husband and kids showed up for events, including my wedding! And Kay will never change, that's what all this history proves too. I consider her a lost case and I suspect now that my kids are getting older we quite possibly may never see her again. To that I say, so be it.

[Open Eyes]

It’s understandable your daughter got confused. It’s an opportunity to explain to your daughter that she did nothing wrong and in her life she will experience other people who behave strangely and it’s ok to be polite and distance from these individuals.

I had to do that with my own daughter. It was important for her to learn to distance and walk away.

[lovethesun]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

It’s understandable your daughter got confused. It’s an opportunity to explain to your daughter that she did nothing wrong and in her life she will experience other people who behave strangely and it’s ok to be polite and distance from these individuals.

I had to do that with my own daughter. It was important for her to learn to distance and walk away.

I agree. kay's behavior presents a great learning opportunity for my daughter. I hope my daughter walks away from this smart enough to be able to see strange behavior and not engage with people like that, and especially not marry someone like that. that's the tragedy of Kay's husband. He's a very weak person and was probably naturally drawn to an emotional abuser like Kay. All he is is a puppet and she pulls all the strings.

[Open Eyes]

YES, unfortunately often the individuals that partner up with a controlling person like this have codependant issues or some kind of dependancy problem and as a result they end up under the control of a person like Kay.

It's important to point this out to your daughter as down the road she will encounter people like this who can actually behave in ways that can make her question her own self worth. Or as you did when you questioned if you did something wrong, are you missing something. Sometimes a disordered individual will try to gain something from an individual connected to the person they have a problem with. It's some form of manipulation that often confuses the target. It's right to question this as both you and your daughter did, and because this was a gift from someone connected to the family it was a challenge to accept. It's strange in that there was no strong connection there to begin with. You managed this as graciously as possible and being concerned about offending the giver. However, it's definitely a red flag that something is not right and it worthy of discussing with your daughter where she learns to be careful of those bearing gifts like this in general. More often than not its something the giver wants and sets up to possibly use to their own advantage. We don't always know what that is as only the giver knows.

[lovethesun]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

YES, unfortunately often the individuals that partner up with a controlling person like this have codependant issues or some kind of dependancy problem and as a result they end up under the control of a person like Kay.

It's important to point this out to your daughter as down the road she will encounter people like this who can actually behave in ways that can make her question her own self worth. Or as you did when you questioned if you did something wrong, are you missing something. Sometimes a disordered individual will try to gain something from an individual connected to the person they have a problem with. It's some form of manipulation that often confuses the target. It's right to question this as both you and your daughter did, and because this was a gift from someone connected to the family it was a challenge to accept. It's strange in that there was no strong connection there to begin with. You managed this as graciously as possible and being concerned about offending the giver. However, it's definitely a red flag that something is not right and it worthy of discussing with your daughter where she learns to be careful of those bearing gifts like this in general. More often than not its something the giver wants and sets up to possibly use to their own advantage. We don't always know what that is as only the giver knows.

you are 100% correct! This is exactly why I have the rule "Beware of gifts you did not ask for and favors you did not ask for!"

You're right too about there being not much of a relationship between Kay and my daughter to begin with. Makes Kay's efforts all the more suspect. Like what was Kay expecting? Me to say, "Oh gee, you gave my daughter a random diamond necklace so let me kiss your feet?"

[Open Eyes]

When someone is disordered lovethesun they do things that don't make sense. That's something to impress on your daughter. Our children are niave and can become targets because they simply don't have the maturity level to realize how people can be quite disturbed. The true gift is that this can be used as an important educational experience you can share with your daughter. We all tend to experience individuals on our life path that behave in ways that don't make sense and can even be harmful. It's important to know not to ever have blind trust.

[Mendingmysoul]

I agree with all the posters. Connection and communication is a two-way street. That way relationships grow and prosper. When you are nice and gracious and want to work towards improvement, other person works actively to sabotage it,the relationship goes no where.It actually hurts a lot.The quality of our life suffers.I also find it odd that she sends expensive gift.Then ignores you guys completely. This kind of disordered behaviour is not good for your daughter's mental welfare.Try to keep her at distance. I read somewhere,push and pull technique. I feel that is what Kay is doing.Keep your guard up with this women.Hugs.

[divine1966]

Does she even keep in touch with your daughter? Or she just sent a gift and then never contacted her after? What a piece of work