Stuck

Thanks, open eyes. I am trying to see it.

Good luck working your way through your difficulties. The main thing is to know what choices you have and what options you don't have. The option of him getting therapy and substance rehab and modifying his behavior is not on the table. He is crystal clear in what he proposes to offer you. His behavior will remain as it has been for a long time. You can coexist with that or separate from him. Those are your choices. It's your call.

After a certain age, courts and police really won't do much to force a child to be with a parent the child doesn't want to be around, especially if substance abuse is going on. A man as self-centered and dysfunctional as your husband is unlikely to care very much about devoting time to spend with his children after a marriage ends. Were you to divorce him, your husband would be quite content to leave managing the kids entirely in your hands. He sees them now because he can't avoid seeing them. So it's a stretch for you to think, "My daughter is better off with me staying married because shared custody would be hard on her." That's you straining your brain to rationalize preserving the status quo.

Continue the marriage, if that's what you want to do. It's entirely your right to choose that option.

You mention he was affected by trauma. Does he suffer from ptsd? Is he using the marijuana to help manage the ptsd symptoms?

I don’t want to contribute to demonizing someone who genuinely suffers from ptsd. I know that some experience crippling symptoms and use canibus to treat these symptoms.

She would be okay visiting with him she says. What I mean is, she is pushing for separation yet she’d be the one still seeing him. I guess we would still all get together, or even just him and I, if possible. I wouldn’t involve the court unless absolutely necessary. I doubt he’d involve the court. Then again, if I told/asked him to leave, I cannot even imagine what he would do in response. There’s no way it would go well.

It’s true that he has much less interest in the kids than the average parent, and has often said he can’t wait to have an empty nest. He also said if my daughter ever “tries to leave the house” then he is going to need visits with her dog a few times a week because he’ll miss the dog. He says weird stuff. He also gets really lonely if we’re gone. He doesn’t like to be alone for long. He starts to get unsettled without us there. Me maybe.

I guess the truth is I don’t want to live this way. No doubt our relationship has always been some level of unhealthy. He has always thought its great though. His only complaint was more recently the physical aspect which I stopped indulging because we don’t get along. I told him that was damaging me to be giving that way when things are so strained. So he started thinking of us as platonic. His more recent meds have made it a non issue anyway.

It’s my choice, but I can’t see things clear enough yet to know how or what to choose.

Still “seeing him” and living in the same household is not the same thing. When kids prefer their parents are not together anymore, they don’t stop wanting to actually see the parent. They just prefer to not live in the household where dysfunction is rampant and parent is intoxicated the whole time and/or parents don’t get along. When your daughter tells you “I don’t want to live like this”, she’s not telling you “I hate my father and never want to see him”. She’s telling you that living this way is unhealthy and she recognizes it.

If you are to separate, I am not sure what you mean by you getting together with your husband. It wouldn’t be a separation then.

Do you worry how he’ll be lonely without you more than worrying how it effects your children to live with an addict who won’t seek help? It effects them for life.

Also leaving someone doesn’t mean you have no empathy and compassion for them or become callous. You can have compassion for him yet not live in the same household.

Of course you could stay but I hope you at least continuously seek help for yourself and your kids

Yes cptsd and depression. I wouldn’t say he uses it to manage ptsd symptoms because it doesn’t manage his symptoms. He has though expressed that it’s either he smokes or killer depression. I ask him why he doesn’t reach out for more help and he doesn’t give an answer. He was told by professionals that he should do trauma and addiction treatment. He was told the same years ago but didn’t go for it. He isn’t really going for it now either. He takes meds which is good. I think it would be very bad if he stopped taking them. He doesn’t need to be demonized, and I never have demonized him.

Does he work?

He’s been at this job 3 months. He came home today after working a couple hours. Walked off because he got upset, was told to settle down, and left to make a point, teach them something. He’s called out at least a few times or so since he’s been there. It seems very low stress where he is right now, but I guess he still just wants his freedom or something..I’m actually not sure why he’s left the other times. He’ll just say because he wanted to.

He’s always been one to get up for work and be enthusiastic, but usually wars with someone or seems to push the limits at work. He’s been fired like 4 or 5 times. Usually due to behavior towards others. Other times he’s given all his time and energy for not enough in return, builds resentment, blows, and quits.

He was not working for maybe a year or so when he was too unwell.

So he also can’t keep a job and gets fired for poor behavior (perhaps he can’t stay sober for long and when is sober cannot behave). So you are a sole provider? Where and how does he find money to buy weed? Do you pay for it? Supply him with drug? Why? Your finances aren’t separated?

Oh please he can’t keep a job yet he is the one “giving it all” on the job and quits out of resentment. I have hard time believing it.

If you are a sole provider how is he going to live if you leave? You’d likely be asked to pay spousal support. Longer you stay more you’ll pay.

I’d say his poor behavior and getting fired connects to his mental health, not whether sober or not.
Oh wow. He just came home from work. Fired again. :-(

You don’t think his behavior is related to drug use? Drugs interfere with medication. It’s not recommended to use substances like drugs or alcohol if you are on medication. Perhaps he needs to go on disability if his mental health causes these issues.

These conversations you are having with your daughter are way inappropriate. You are treating her like a peer confidant. She is "pushing" for you to have your husband leave the home? This is not the kind of thing where you have "family" discussions over what to do. You are lonely and wanting someone to commiserate with you, and your daughter is filling a role that she has no business being in.

Your daughter has a right to express to you her frustrations about *her* relationship with her father - to a point. She finds him "embarrassing" and "annoying.". (Sounds like typical teen talk.) Of course, you listen, and then you move on, and then she moves on to what is her business as a child/teen or whatever. Have your discussions about maintaining/ending the marriage with qualified adults. Listening to your daughter advise you about your personal problems with "self-worth" is inappropriate role-reversal. Those kind of verbal interchanges should be aborted. She must not focus on "Mom's problem." That is adult business, not for her to preoccupy herself with. She has a right to all sorts of opinions about everything going on around her. She needs to learn that some of her opinions are for her to entertain privately. Even between a mother and daughter there is such a thing as appropriate boundaries.

You are hurting your daughter's development by over involving her in what is your business.

Your husband is very likely to become homeless, if you decide to stop living with him. He knows that - deep down. Of course he clings to his family. You are what stands between him and the street. Deep down, you already know this. This is partly why ejecting him from the home seems so awful to you. You are worried what would happen to him. Deep down you know he can't cope with adult responsibilities. The prospect of him completely deteriorating outside the shelter of the marriage is very sad to contemplate. You don't want to be "responsible" for that.

In life, we sometimes face a choice between sacrificing ourself on an altar to "save" someone else and freeing ourself to make a life that is best for oneself. We want a win-win solution - best for me and best for this other person too. It really sucks to face a choice where I either take the best care of me, or I take care of holding him up. I can't do both. It's me or him. You have the option of continuing to take care of him. However, it is not your moral obligation to do so. You need to know you are free to choose. Being his perpetual caregiver is not something you owe him because he was "there for you" at times in the past. He didn't contract Alzheimer's disease, in which case you would have a responsibility for his care. He has adopted a style of living whereby he takes no responsibility for anything. You are not obligated to underwrite that. He is not entitled to be propped up by you. You can choose to do that for him, but you don't have to. There are forms of self-sacrifice that are noble. It is not noble to be someone else's doormat.

If you opt for separation, the only way to do it is through the court. He will not leave because you ask him to. He has nowhere to go.

You don't have to throw him out - of the marriage, or of the home. You have the option of continuing your current arrangement. It's an option, not an obligation.

How old is your husband?

I’m sorry, I think you have tried to hold your family together. It’s good that you are taking the time to think about what is healthy for you. You sound like you have a good heart. That may be taken advantage of though so it’s good that you are taking time to figure that out.

I think his behavior relates to drug use, but I think he gets fired for his mental health symptoms. He had a massive break down and ever since started getting fired from jobs. Yes it’s hard to tell how his meds work when he’s always high at home. I think disability makes sense, although he is capable a lot. His thinking is very off. Some of his bad ideas and silly thoughts come from being high for sure, but he also has weird thinking that he didn’t have before. He has a power issue and has since I’ve known him. What that’s from, I don’t know.

Has he ever had professional help?

The thing about self medicating with drugs or alcohol is that it can contribute to psychotic episodes and delusional thinking.

Of course he has weird thinking. Prolonged continuous drug abuse effects brain functions. It’s inevitable that his thinking is and will continue to be weird

I see you are denying that abuse of marijuana is one of the causes of his bad behaviors. You might need to read about it or talk to addictions counselors. It’s absolutely one of the causes of his behaviors, if not the main cause

Most people need to hit the rock bottom before they decide to seek help. As long as you provide him with home, food, bills paid and money to buy drugs he’ll have to incentive to seek help with his addiction. You make it comfortable for him to continue abusing drugs. Then you think he’d just randomly quit. He won’t

I hear you and thank you. I am not lonely, wanting my daughter to commiserate. She is not my peer. She has been receiving counseling, and I think her discussions there are what had her reaching out to me telling me she doesn’t want to live with him. And saying we should get divorced. I think it started with her saying divorce, and then evolved to her saying she needs to be away from him because her mental health. She told me she had been watching you tube videos about narcissists, so maybe that’s where the self worth thing comes from. Although I do recall saying to her that I had an alcoholic father so that affected my self worth. And yeah she sees him controlling things and she is more like him in that she likes things her way. When I say pushing me, I don’t mean we’re having discussions about me waffling. I mean after her counseling session she was angry that she has to live with him and I’m not doing anything about kicking him out. I tell her what’s appropriate, I’m just reporting things she’s said. I’m not saying she is advising me or I’m asking her for advice. I can’t think of anytime I’ve asked her for advice about anything, let alone this stuff. She said it’s okay to leave someone who has problems like him and his choice after that is on him. She learned that in counseling and shared it with me. She’s a kid who instead of just having normal teen stuff going on, has a father who had a complete mental breakdown a few years ago, and that’s not normal at all. She wants to be away from it because she wants to be a normal kid who can feel like she has a good standing in society and not some poor kid who has a c*azy dad. I felt horrible when she told me how she was feeling. I felt horrible that my child was feeling ashamed of her life instead of proud of herself. I felt like I didn’t shield her from his madness when I should have. I have a hard time seeing the difference between a physical vs mental illness (or Alzheimer’s) and I am extremely empathetic and patient and nonjudgmental for the most part. I’m very accommodating and I can withstand a lot of discomfort. It’s not a purposeful sacrifice. It’s my personality, or trauma, or I don’t know. That’s why I ask, why am I like this? I numb, I’m stuck, I just left a job with difficult bosses. I “survived” there for years when no one else could. Other employees would say how can you do this? They’d say they were screaming in their cars, crying at night, having nightmares, driving their partners crazy complaining about the boss, having their self esteem take a dive, losing their confidence, and so on. I’m happy at my new place. I’m learning from that. I can only do so many things at once.
I made some changes around here so my daughter is much more comfortable for the time being. She is smiling much more and focusing on defining herself.
If Id kicked him out immediately it’d be because she said that’s what she wanted and needed. That’s not how it works, so I’m digging deep, trying to see. I’m trying to see the big picture. It’s easy to know I deserve a peaceful relationship, easy to know this isn’t working and I don’t approve, and easy to know no kid wants to live in weirdness when they can live in security and fun.

44. Thank you. I have tried to hold it together. I think I should have left him years ago but I guess I wasn’t financially secure enough to do so, and had no family to turn to. Too proud to involve friends. He was the breadwinner and me a stay at home mom. After his breakdown, he changed a lot, dynamics changed a lot.

He’s been inpatient like 5 times so he’s had that type of help. He has a counselor but the counselor warned they must go very slow working on things or it’s a life threat.
I know it can contribute which is why I’ve been pressing him to curb the use, so his baseline can be determined, so he’ll be on track.

I agree, and I don’t deny marijuana abuse is a cause of his behavior. It is a huge problem around here and it affects things. Just saying even when he went to work high every day he still beefed with people and got fired, so I think that is more mental illness. He’s weird about working with others. Some people really like him, but others don’t. He is a boisterous type. He gets triggered at work a lot, he gets very off track and he stays off track. He thinks other people are the problem-thinks they’re too sensitive, too lazy, too wimpy, too unrealistic, on and on. Sometimes he did identify things as a “him” problem at one job, and in those cases he would become very draining on H.R. needing a lot of hand holding and attention and would constantly bring “problems” to their attention. Very self sabotaging behavior. I believe it started when he started feeling too stressed again and spiraled from there. What happened at this job he lost today? I’m really don’t know. I believe he thought his boss was weak or inferior or something, so he started being petty towards him and passive aggressive. He was very happy with this job and so pleased with the benefits, so I don’t know why he jeopardized it. He must have thought he couldn’t be fired since he reached three months and in a union. He talks how he wants to people and says if they can’t handle it it’s their problem.
He’s always made more money than me until the last couple years, so he always felt entitled to what he wants to buy because he worked hard. He says now he won’t buy it, but that seems impossible. I’ve tried separating the finances, but didn’t get all the changes in place. He’s given up his card a number of times which seems to be most effective while it lasts. It’s ridiculous.

So he goes to work drugged up, acts out and then gets fired. You are still saying drug abuse is not a problem on the job. It’s old wife’s take that pot only mellows people down. It causes psychosis. If someone says they went to work drunk and caused problems and got fired, would you still argue that alcohol isn’t a problem and that’s not why they misbehave on the job and then get fired?.

I understand you don’t want to leave and I get it you want to understand why he does this or that and often times it’s important to know all this. But no amount of rationalizing and finding excuses for him will change the reality of what’s happening

Separating finances is not hard. Just create a bank account deposit work pay check there and only cover urgent bills like buying food and paying things for the house. If he doesn’t work, isn’t stay at home parent and is not on disability if he chooses to act out at work, he shouldn’t have to be able to buy drugs.

You mentioned you have fear of leaving him because he has triggers. Are you afraid of him and is the true reason is not leaving is fear of him and not other things? Many stay out of fear. It is sadly understandable

Did your husband use marijuana before his break down?

He worked at that place, high, for a year. He worked sober at the job he just got fired from. He got fired for the same reason at each. I think drug use on a job is a problem. I couldn’t do my job high for five minutes. I’m not trying to argue that drug use isn’t an issue. He hasn’t been fired for being high is all. Basically he’ll say something that there is no coming back from. His anger I guess.

I go back and forth between wanting him to go and hoping things will improve. I just keep bringing it up to him again and again (that I can’t allow poor parenting, addiction, neglect). Each time feeling more real. Each time worrying less about how he receives the message, and believing more in my message.

I’m sure he thinks his last pay check earns him some weed. I told him I don’t want him buying weed now. If he makes any money I’m sure he’ll buy weed. He’ll always find a way to get weed. He’ll trade things for it. Invite a smoker over. I guess to separate finances I would get him off my bank account and have him pay me for expenses.

Yes he did.