Stuck

If you are facing the reality of who he is and letting go of the notion that, with "help," he can be remodeled into the husband and father you need him to be, that right there is huge. You cover a vast stretch of ground just doing that, and that may be enough for you to accomplish for now. Decisions about his physical presence in the home will start to almost make themselves, after you solidify your grasp of what's really going on. Right now your task is to set aside sentimentalities and fantasies of possibilities that aren't ever going to happen. That's a lot of mental work and it's almost traumatizing. The mind defends itself from what is too painful by creating alternative narratives that help us feel more hopeful and less defeated. We imagine how "if only" this and "if only" that. "Maybe this" and "maybe that." You've done the preliminary work of cataloging all the examples of how you have an unacceptable, unfair, soul-withering situation. You've started to consider that there may be an alternative to just languishing in this mess as something that can't be changed. You're letting go of hope in solutions that will not happen. You need to inhabit that space for awhile and get oriented.

When you have the honesty and courage to come out of dreamland and face reality, it doesn't feel good at first. But, oh, is it empowering. You have options. Take a little time to discover that you're not as trapped as you thought you were. Get used to the view from your new vantage point.

I'm so glad you have the satisfaction of your children being as well as they are. Congratulations on successful mothering. You're afraid of making a false move. Fine. It's not like the house is on fire, and you better bolt through an exit immediately. It doesn't sound like there are imminent threats to your children's and your safety. Instead, there's a long-established status quo that you've become completely sick of. Altering it can feel like taxiing a jumbo jet on the runway. Dissolving a marriage feels shockingly radical because you went into it with such commitment. You don't reneg on commitment easily. I admire that.

One day at a time.

It’s important to understand what codependency means. One of the unhealthy aspects of codependency is enabling behaviors that are not healthy for the overall relationship, but also has become a detriment to the quality of your own life.

Up until now you have been a good mother in that your children knew they had your support while they slowly learned a lot of different things about life and themselves. For them to also continue developing skills to maintain independence is important. Our children pay attention to how we navigate our lives. One thing parents teach without realizing it is giving up independence and instead living their life around an unhealthy partner.

Right now you are evaluating and trying to do so as honestly as possible. That takes courage in that you are forced to see realities that may be hard to accept. A lot of marriages go through a period of evaluation when the children are getting ready to leave the nest and the parents lives change. The question does become what’s next and what does the relationship mean.

You have important questions about what your life will be about next. You deserve to have a sense of independence and be free from the constant parenting role you engaged in every day. Your husband has expressed that he is content to continue his daily use of marijuana. It sounds like he prefers to be numb on a daily basis. He wants you to enable that lifestyle and live your life around that dependency.

What do you want?

A mother’s life does revolve around parenting her children. That changes when the children are leaving the nest. It’s important your life doesn’t revolve around your husband and his choice to engage in his addiction to marijuana. He has expressed his contentment with that lifestyle. You don’t have to be a part of that choice he has made.

Thank you, Rose. Mostly I accept him as he is, which I guess was a problem from the start. I totally ignored terrible behavior decades ago, and since. I believed I did something wrong to deserve it, or I believed I was having too high expectations, that he at the time behaved like that because he’d only seen poor behavior and, or I was just busy defending myself and just wanting to be loved in my marriage. He has a roller coaster way of being, even with his routines. I have been done with him at times I guess, and then I see him again with compassion and empathy. I guess I went way way way past sick of it, to numb, starting a few years back.

I’ve thought if he gets help with his trauma then he wouldn’t have all those reactions, moods, ups, downs, ticks, obsessions, etc. I see him as someone with an infliction they can’t help, and myself collateral damage. I’ve had a lot of setbacks as well in life, and he has stood by me, although he doesn’t handle them well necessarily. I suppose that does all add up to a lot of what if’s.

And like you said it’s like taxiing a jet plane. It’s erasing permanent ink.

I’m stuck I guess means I’m getting a push from my kid and I’m standing still for the most part. Yes I need time for a big change. I have to admit that I feel confused because she would continue to spend time with him for visitation, and I would be apart? I can’t wrap my brain around it. I guess if he hasn’t treated me well enough then I should want to leave. He treats me fine if I never try to interfere with him, which sounds odd.

Thanks open eyes. I want a partner to have fun with. We stopped doing much of anything together a few years ago. I could be very lonely with him and an empty nest. He gets high so doesn’t really need to do anything else beyond that.

Thanks, open eyes. I am trying to see it.

Good luck working your way through your difficulties. The main thing is to know what choices you have and what options you don't have. The option of him getting therapy and substance rehab and modifying his behavior is not on the table. He is crystal clear in what he proposes to offer you. His behavior will remain as it has been for a long time. You can coexist with that or separate from him. Those are your choices. It's your call.

After a certain age, courts and police really won't do much to force a child to be with a parent the child doesn't want to be around, especially if substance abuse is going on. A man as self-centered and dysfunctional as your husband is unlikely to care very much about devoting time to spend with his children after a marriage ends. Were you to divorce him, your husband would be quite content to leave managing the kids entirely in your hands. He sees them now because he can't avoid seeing them. So it's a stretch for you to think, "My daughter is better off with me staying married because shared custody would be hard on her." That's you straining your brain to rationalize preserving the status quo.

Continue the marriage, if that's what you want to do. It's entirely your right to choose that option.

You mention he was affected by trauma. Does he suffer from ptsd? Is he using the marijuana to help manage the ptsd symptoms?

I don’t want to contribute to demonizing someone who genuinely suffers from ptsd. I know that some experience crippling symptoms and use canibus to treat these symptoms.

She would be okay visiting with him she says. What I mean is, she is pushing for separation yet she’d be the one still seeing him. I guess we would still all get together, or even just him and I, if possible. I wouldn’t involve the court unless absolutely necessary. I doubt he’d involve the court. Then again, if I told/asked him to leave, I cannot even imagine what he would do in response. There’s no way it would go well.

It’s true that he has much less interest in the kids than the average parent, and has often said he can’t wait to have an empty nest. He also said if my daughter ever “tries to leave the house” then he is going to need visits with her dog a few times a week because he’ll miss the dog. He says weird stuff. He also gets really lonely if we’re gone. He doesn’t like to be alone for long. He starts to get unsettled without us there. Me maybe.

I guess the truth is I don’t want to live this way. No doubt our relationship has always been some level of unhealthy. He has always thought its great though. His only complaint was more recently the physical aspect which I stopped indulging because we don’t get along. I told him that was damaging me to be giving that way when things are so strained. So he started thinking of us as platonic. His more recent meds have made it a non issue anyway.

It’s my choice, but I can’t see things clear enough yet to know how or what to choose.

Still “seeing him” and living in the same household is not the same thing. When kids prefer their parents are not together anymore, they don’t stop wanting to actually see the parent. They just prefer to not live in the household where dysfunction is rampant and parent is intoxicated the whole time and/or parents don’t get along. When your daughter tells you “I don’t want to live like this”, she’s not telling you “I hate my father and never want to see him”. She’s telling you that living this way is unhealthy and she recognizes it.

If you are to separate, I am not sure what you mean by you getting together with your husband. It wouldn’t be a separation then.

Do you worry how he’ll be lonely without you more than worrying how it effects your children to live with an addict who won’t seek help? It effects them for life.

Also leaving someone doesn’t mean you have no empathy and compassion for them or become callous. You can have compassion for him yet not live in the same household.

Of course you could stay but I hope you at least continuously seek help for yourself and your kids

Yes cptsd and depression. I wouldn’t say he uses it to manage ptsd symptoms because it doesn’t manage his symptoms. He has though expressed that it’s either he smokes or killer depression. I ask him why he doesn’t reach out for more help and he doesn’t give an answer. He was told by professionals that he should do trauma and addiction treatment. He was told the same years ago but didn’t go for it. He isn’t really going for it now either. He takes meds which is good. I think it would be very bad if he stopped taking them. He doesn’t need to be demonized, and I never have demonized him.

Does he work?

He’s been at this job 3 months. He came home today after working a couple hours. Walked off because he got upset, was told to settle down, and left to make a point, teach them something. He’s called out at least a few times or so since he’s been there. It seems very low stress where he is right now, but I guess he still just wants his freedom or something..I’m actually not sure why he’s left the other times. He’ll just say because he wanted to.

He’s always been one to get up for work and be enthusiastic, but usually wars with someone or seems to push the limits at work. He’s been fired like 4 or 5 times. Usually due to behavior towards others. Other times he’s given all his time and energy for not enough in return, builds resentment, blows, and quits.

He was not working for maybe a year or so when he was too unwell.

So he also can’t keep a job and gets fired for poor behavior (perhaps he can’t stay sober for long and when is sober cannot behave). So you are a sole provider? Where and how does he find money to buy weed? Do you pay for it? Supply him with drug? Why? Your finances aren’t separated?

Oh please he can’t keep a job yet he is the one “giving it all” on the job and quits out of resentment. I have hard time believing it.

If you are a sole provider how is he going to live if you leave? You’d likely be asked to pay spousal support. Longer you stay more you’ll pay.

I’d say his poor behavior and getting fired connects to his mental health, not whether sober or not.
Oh wow. He just came home from work. Fired again. :-(

You don’t think his behavior is related to drug use? Drugs interfere with medication. It’s not recommended to use substances like drugs or alcohol if you are on medication. Perhaps he needs to go on disability if his mental health causes these issues.

These conversations you are having with your daughter are way inappropriate. You are treating her like a peer confidant. She is "pushing" for you to have your husband leave the home? This is not the kind of thing where you have "family" discussions over what to do. You are lonely and wanting someone to commiserate with you, and your daughter is filling a role that she has no business being in.

Your daughter has a right to express to you her frustrations about *her* relationship with her father - to a point. She finds him "embarrassing" and "annoying.". (Sounds like typical teen talk.) Of course, you listen, and then you move on, and then she moves on to what is her business as a child/teen or whatever. Have your discussions about maintaining/ending the marriage with qualified adults. Listening to your daughter advise you about your personal problems with "self-worth" is inappropriate role-reversal. Those kind of verbal interchanges should be aborted. She must not focus on "Mom's problem." That is adult business, not for her to preoccupy herself with. She has a right to all sorts of opinions about everything going on around her. She needs to learn that some of her opinions are for her to entertain privately. Even between a mother and daughter there is such a thing as appropriate boundaries.

You are hurting your daughter's development by over involving her in what is your business.

Your husband is very likely to become homeless, if you decide to stop living with him. He knows that - deep down. Of course he clings to his family. You are what stands between him and the street. Deep down, you already know this. This is partly why ejecting him from the home seems so awful to you. You are worried what would happen to him. Deep down you know he can't cope with adult responsibilities. The prospect of him completely deteriorating outside the shelter of the marriage is very sad to contemplate. You don't want to be "responsible" for that.

In life, we sometimes face a choice between sacrificing ourself on an altar to "save" someone else and freeing ourself to make a life that is best for oneself. We want a win-win solution - best for me and best for this other person too. It really sucks to face a choice where I either take the best care of me, or I take care of holding him up. I can't do both. It's me or him. You have the option of continuing to take care of him. However, it is not your moral obligation to do so. You need to know you are free to choose. Being his perpetual caregiver is not something you owe him because he was "there for you" at times in the past. He didn't contract Alzheimer's disease, in which case you would have a responsibility for his care. He has adopted a style of living whereby he takes no responsibility for anything. You are not obligated to underwrite that. He is not entitled to be propped up by you. You can choose to do that for him, but you don't have to. There are forms of self-sacrifice that are noble. It is not noble to be someone else's doormat.

If you opt for separation, the only way to do it is through the court. He will not leave because you ask him to. He has nowhere to go.

You don't have to throw him out - of the marriage, or of the home. You have the option of continuing your current arrangement. It's an option, not an obligation.

How old is your husband?

I’m sorry, I think you have tried to hold your family together. It’s good that you are taking the time to think about what is healthy for you. You sound like you have a good heart. That may be taken advantage of though so it’s good that you are taking time to figure that out.

I think his behavior relates to drug use, but I think he gets fired for his mental health symptoms. He had a massive break down and ever since started getting fired from jobs. Yes it’s hard to tell how his meds work when he’s always high at home. I think disability makes sense, although he is capable a lot. His thinking is very off. Some of his bad ideas and silly thoughts come from being high for sure, but he also has weird thinking that he didn’t have before. He has a power issue and has since I’ve known him. What that’s from, I don’t know.

Has he ever had professional help?

The thing about self medicating with drugs or alcohol is that it can contribute to psychotic episodes and delusional thinking.