[Have Hope]

A few years ago my husband and I attended one of his best friend's wedding. There was a seriously flirtatious girl at the wedding, who was trying to dance with every taken guy.

At one point, she came up to my husband, with me RIGHT THERE, and she ran her fingers through his hair very flirtatiously. He told her, please don't do that.

Later on, I took it upon myself to confront her, but nicely. I said something along the lines of: "can I speak with you? I wanted to let you know that I felt very uncomfortable when you ran your fingers through my husband's hair, and right in front of me. Please don't flirt with my husband". Well, that did not go over too well, she raised her voice and made a huge scene outside in front of other people telling me that I must be drunk (which I was not) and that she did not like or want my husband. I was not trying to create a scene, mind you, but after the fact, I know that I probably should not have said anything since it was my husband's friend's wedding. As it turns out, after we left the reception, we heard later that she flirted with every woman's husband at that wedding and tried to pee outside in the front of the building. Real classy.

Well, years later, my husband tells me just yesterday that BECAUSE of that incident, his female friends are wary and distance themselves from my husband so that there can be no misinterpretation on my part of their intentions towards him.

Not once have I stated that I am concerned about my husband's interactions with these particular women. They are all married women, and I could care less how much he speaks with them. However, at the same time, I AM very sensitive to the issue of other women in general around my husband. And he DID step out of our marriage once when we were having troubles two years ago.

So, now I feel horrible and as though it's all my fault that his female friends are distant with him because of what happened at that wedding and because of how I am in general. Had I to do it over again, I would have left it alone, I suppose, and I would have just distanced ourselves from the flirtatious girl. But, I did what I did and now these are the consequences.

But now I really don't know what to do about it, if anything? And I don't know what to do with this new information. My husband told me this in the midst of an argument we were having about this same topic. The topic had not come up for months, and we haven't argued in months.

I am not posting this story to hear from members that I was in the wrong at the wedding. I already acknowledge that I should have and could have handled it better. In all reality, this girl is the one who flipped out and who made a scene, not me.

Do I do anything about this, or just let it go? It's really bugging me. And of course, I want my husband's female friends to feel good around me and to like me. Maybe it's a case of I made my bed and so now I must lie in it. And maybe I shouldn't concern myself SO much with this? I mean, if that's their reaction, I cannot control how they react.

[divine1966]

There’s nothing you can do. I feel that if you try to remedy it, it would not go down too well. It happened awhile back so nothing can be done and these women are of no importance

I’d bring if up with your husband though. What’s his agenda in telling you what happened years ago and why is there an argument about it now? Did he want you to feel bad? Are there more flirting women in the picture? I’d focus on your marriage and won’t worry what these women think. Who cares what they think of you.

[Rive.]

I wouldn't do anything with this information. You didn't do anything wrong telling that woman, politely, to lay off your husband. Actually, your husband is the one who ought to have told her off.

Now he is using whatever these other women think as some sort of ammunition against you?! That doesn't make any sense. For one, you did not do anything wrong. Secondly, it is *their* problem if they were immature enough to make assumptions and as a result keep their distance. You are not responsible for their warped thinking and behaviours. It's on them. Same with your husband - trying to use other people's irrational beliefs to what? Instill guilt on you? Make you the 'bad guy'? Sorry but that is ridiculous because, again, you didn't do anything wrong.

You are not responsible for other people's assumptions and/or immaturity.

[divine1966]

Opinions of people who like to put fingers through other women’s husbands’ hair are of no importance. Even if just one of them did it, they are from the same crowd. What they think is irrelevant. I’ve never in my life touch other woman’s husbands hair. It’s not normal

The fact that they are afraid you’ll misinterpret their intentions with your husband just indicates that they are prone to behave inappropriately, likely when drinking. I am not afraid anyone misinterprets me. I have no reason. Why are they afraid? Must have a reason. I’d not worry if they like you.

[Bill3]

[Have Hope]

You both are right, and thanks for your replies!

I did ask my husband what his purpose was in telling me this, and I told him that all it accomplished was it made me feel like total crap about myself. I asked if that was his intention, and he did not have an answer.

We were arguing at the time about the same topic - the issue of other women - and he got insulted and upset by my questioning him because he's been a good man to me throughout the last year since we've gotten back together and since he promised me he would never betray my trust again OR hurt me like that ever again.

BUT he did have to sling this information in my face in a way that did bother and upset me. WHY tell me this??? When he gets upset, he can have a tendency to say things that he know will upset me as well - or maybe it's his attempt at still trying to control me. If he can show me that my actions have hurt his relationships, then it may curb my actions going forward. I don't know. I am guessing.

You're also correct in saying it's immature behavior on the part of these women friends who are now avoiding interactions with him based on a fear of how I may react. It's all just very strange to me. I mean, come on. IF there was nothing to worry about, they should carry on as normal. Perhaps there was something. It's all unknown.

[Rive.]

Usually when people feel guilty about something they know they did 'wrong', they go on the offensive and 'attack' the other party - rather than acknowledging what they did. Better to deflect onto the other then feel the shame... As in, he wants you to feel bad and he the bad guy so *he* doesn't have to feel bad himself. He broke your trust and can't face up to his 'transgression' and/or the consequences of his cheating. Needless to say, it is not It is not very mature behaviour and reflects both a complete denial of what he did and displacement of feelings he doesn't want to own (e.g. guilt, shame, or simply facing up to 'I did something wrong')

Re these other women. Frankly, their pettiness says more about them than about you. Not much different to the woman who touched your husband's hair and made a move on other women's husbands. Cut from the same clot... If so, I'd say you are well rid of such people in your life. And I wouldn't spare a thought about such people.

[RollercoasterLover]

My therapist once told me that people who bring up past events in an argument never really got over it. This is especially true about past events that caused emotional trauma.

It sounds like your husband may still be dealing with an emotional trauma from you addressing the situation at that wedding. You mentioned that he asked her not to do what she was doing. Did she stop like your husband asked?

I don't want to pry into your life, but I am curious if the wedding thing happened before or after you found out about the infidelity in your relationship.

As for these females who are concerned you will misinterpret their behavior... they should be concerned with how his wife will feel about choices they make in his presence. If they avoid running their fingers through his hair because you drew a line with the first woman who did that... good. That's what's supposed to happen when someone firmly establishes a boundry. It's a shame he's trying to use your boundry to make you feel bad.. . it's worse that it's working. It may be good to explore why he resents your boundry. I wouldn't talk to these women about this yet. Unless you want to change the boundry marker and let them flirt with him.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by RollercoasterLover

My therapist once told me that people who bring up past events in an argument never really got over it. This is especially true about past events that caused emotional trauma.

It sounds like your husband may still be dealing with an emotional trauma from you addressing the situation at that wedding. You mentioned that he asked her not to do what she was doing. Did she stop like your husband asked?

I don't want to pry into your life, but I am curious if the wedding thing happened before or after you found out about the infidelity in your relationship.

As for these females who are concerned you will misinterpret their behavior... they should be concerned with how his wife will feel about choices they make in his presence. If they avoid running their fingers through his hair because you drew a line with the first woman who did that... good. That's what's supposed to happen when someone firmly establishes a boundry. It's a shame he's trying to use your boundry to make you feel bad.. . it's worse that it's working. It may be good to explore why he resents your boundry. I wouldn't talk to these women about this yet. Unless you want to change the boundry marker and let them flirt with him.

I personally hate indirect communication and can’t stand anything that is less than direct.

If he was traumatized that his wife was telling other women off (kind of like don’t touch my man) then that’s how he should have brought it up and not years later.

He could say it made him feel embarrassed that you didn’t think it was enough of him telling her to stop, that you had to follow up.

Then why didn’t he say so? Why instead he makes it about these other women? For a fact could it be that they never even said what he claimed they said? Why is this stuff still on his mind?

I’d bring all of this to a next couple therapy session.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by Rive.

Usually when people feel guilty about something they know they did 'wrong', they go on the offensive and 'attack' the other party - rather than acknowledging what they did. Better to deflect onto the other then feel the shame... As in, he wants you to feel bad and he the bad guy so *he* doesn't have to feel bad himself. He broke your trust and can't face up to his 'transgression' and/or the consequences of his cheating. Needless to say, it is not It is not very mature behaviour and reflects both a complete denial of what he did and displacement of feelings he doesn't want to own (e.g. guilt, shame, or simply facing up to 'I did something wrong')

Re these other women. Frankly, their pettiness says more about them than about you. Not much different to the woman who touched your husband's hair and made a move on other women's husbands. Cut from the same clot... If so, I'd say you are well rid of such people in your life. And I wouldn't spare a thought about such people.

Well, in the midst of our argument, he still practically justified and excused his infidelity by telling me "we were having a hard time then" when I brought it. up. I said as much to him and I told him that doesn't give me much confidence for the future by saying it was a rough period of time. I said the right thing to have said was "I was in the wrong and it will never happen again". So, I got angry about that too.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by RollercoasterLover

My therapist once told me that people who bring up past events in an argument never really got over it. This is especially true about past events that caused emotional trauma.

It sounds like your husband may still be dealing with an emotional trauma from you addressing the situation at that wedding. You mentioned that he asked her not to do what she was doing. Did she stop like your husband asked?

I don't want to pry into your life, but I am curious if the wedding thing happened before or after you found out about the infidelity in your relationship.

As for these females who are concerned you will misinterpret their behavior... they should be concerned with how his wife will feel about choices they make in his presence. If they avoid running their fingers through his hair because you drew a line with the first woman who did that... good. That's what's supposed to happen when someone firmly establishes a boundry. It's a shame he's trying to use your boundry to make you feel bad.. . it's worse that it's working. It may be good to explore why he resents your boundry. I wouldn't talk to these women about this yet. Unless you want to change the boundry marker and let them flirt with him.

The wedding thing happened before the infidelity. She did stop when she was asked, but she went on to flirt with other married men.

These other women are married and wouldn't flirt with my husband, so I don't see why they would be concerned about my reaction to them texting or messaging with my husband. It doesn't make any sense to me.

And I do not think the wedding incident traumatized my husband. That's not accurate. He was bothered by the fact that I confronted the flirtatious girl on his best friend's wedding day, when it's their day to celebrate and be happy.

And yes, he was using my boundary to make me feel bad.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I personally hate indirect communication and can’t stand anything that is less than direct.

If he was traumatized that his wife was telling other women off (kind of like don’t touch my man) then that’s how he should have brought it up and not years later.

He could say it made him feel embarrassed that you didn’t think it was enough of him telling her to stop, that you had to follow up.

Then why didn’t he say so? Why instead he makes it about these other women? For a fact could it be that they never even said what he claimed they said? Why is this stuff still on his mind?

I’d bring all of this to a next couple therapy session.

I've wondered this too - was he making this up? To make me feel worse??

[Have Hope]

Even if he couldn't accept his responsibility in the midst of this argument, he did apologize first later on in the day for our argument. That was different. In the past, I used to be the one who had to hold out an olive branch to make things right again between us.

Still, I don't like that he said his infidelity happened because we were "having a hard time", and I don't like what he told me about his other female friends now distancing themselves from him because of me. How am I supposed to feel over that?

I was thinking we should have a couples counseling session again to discuss these things. We haven't had a couples session in many months because things have been fine between us.

[Have Hope]

The other thing is, my husband has been commenting on the fact that we're getting blown off by a larger circle of "friends". He used to be better friends with this crowd than me, but one person from this circle had a wedding celebration with friends after the actual ceremony just recently. We were initially invited to their wedding that never happened due to covid. So they eloped during covid and arranged a family and friends celebration party just recently. We were not invited to this party. I thought that was very strange.

In addition, at a recent music festival, we both felt blown off and ignored by this larger circle of people. We had approached them at the festival to hang out, and we were pretty much ignored.

I fear it's because while we were separated, that we both said negative things to some of these people about each other. Then we get back together, and these people don't seem to want to really be around us anymore. My husband keeps commenting about this, saying that something changed after we got back together and now they don't want anything to do with us.

Ugh. Had I known we were going to actually get back together, I never would have confided in certain females from this circle about his abuse. I never in a million years thought we would reunite, and I was convinced divorce was the right path. And who knows what he said to them about ME.

Maybe it's time to meet new people. I don't know. But we see this group nearly everywhere we go because we all love the same music and follow the same bands around.

[Rive.]

Still, I don't like that he said his infidelity happened because we were "having a hard time", and I don't like what he told me about his other female friends now distancing themselves from him because of me. How am I supposed to feel over that?

He shouldn't be abdicating responsibility with such a poor excuse. Having a hard time is no excuse for cheating. He could have chosen to work it out with you. Instead, he chose to step out on the marriage. *that* is on him. It is not fair for him to shift the blame onto you.

These other females? One thing I would bear in mind is that they did not give you a chance and 'condemned' you based on what: assumptions? beliefs? what other people may or may not have said? That also shows lack of maturity / healthy communication by writing you off this way. And this course of action, which they have chosen, does say a lot about them.

You ask how you are supposed to feel about any of that. There is no 'supposed'. Whatever it is you feel is valid and justified. Especially the way it has been brought up - i.e. as ammunition against you. How *do* you feel? Can you express that to your husband as much as you need? Because he brought it up - and actions have consequences. Surely, he can't throw a grenade and expect calm waters or a pat on the back?! Plus, honestly, it still shows that he hasn't taken full responsibility for *his* actions.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by Rive.

He shouldn't be abdicating responsibility with such a poor excuse. Having a hard time is no excuse for cheating. He could have chosen to work it out with you. Instead, he chose to step out on the marriage. *that* is on him. It is not fair for him to shift the blame onto you.

These other females? One thing I would bear in mind is that they did not give you a chance and 'condemned' you based on what: assumptions? beliefs? what other people may or may not have said? That also shows lack of maturity / healthy communication by writing you off this way. And this course of action, which they have chosen, does say a lot about them.

You ask how you are supposed to feel about any of that. There is no 'supposed'. Whatever it is you feel is valid and justified. Especially the way it has been brought up - i.e. as ammunition against you. How *do* you feel? Can you express that to your husband as much as you need? Because he brought it up - and actions have consequences. Surely, he can't throw a grenade and expect calm waters or a pat on the back?! Plus, honestly, it still shows that he hasn't taken full responsibility for *his* actions.

I know.. you are right. He STILL hasn't taken full responsibility for this actions/infidelity. More often than not, I have heard "we were having a rough time" or "things were not good then". And in reply, when I say, well what happens if we have another rough time? Are you going to do the same thing? And his response always is "well, that just won't happen".

Less often and only when I prompt him, do I hear "I will never do that again" or "I will never betray your trust again". In order to hear THOSE words out of his mouth, it usually comes AFTER I have told him, this is what you SHOULD be tellin me instead of "it was a rough time".

In this argument, he also stated, "I will never hurt you again - at least not intentionally". The words, not intentionally seem to give him an out IF he ever DOES hurt me again. Oh, I didn't mean it, he could say, and I didn't realize, he could also say. NO. just DON'T HURT ME EVER AGAIN. PERIOD. He should know by now what that means.

How DO I feel? I am not happy about this latest incident, and I have residual negative emotions over it - I cannot just drop it and "move on", like he wants. I want to address it in therapy together. I think it's time for us to go back and have another session. I am quite upset, in fact.

[divine1966]

Other people aren’t comfortable with you two because you spoke badly about each other to these people. I’d not be comfortable either. That’s how it goes. It’s the same with the family members. Just how it goes

At this point you are better off with new friends. Listening to the same music doesn’t mean you must hang out with them. Especially if they prefer not to. I wonder if your DH is frustrated with the whole friends situation but doesn’t want to face the reality so he blames you for them keeping their distance. Or it’s possible he told them you are jealous or possessive and who knows what else. The whole thing is just crazy

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Other people aren’t comfortable with you two because you spoke badly about each other to these people. I’d not be comfortable either. That’s how it goes. It’s the same with the family members. Just how it goes

At this point you are better off with new friends. Listening to the same music doesn’t mean you must hang out with them. Especially if they prefer not to. I wonder if your DH is frustrated with the whole friends situation but doesn’t want to face the reality so he blames you for them keeping their distance. Or it’s possible he told them you are jealous or possessive and who knows what else. The whole thing is just crazy

It’s uncomfortable at the very least. But, I keep telling my husband that this larger circle of music “friends” were not even real friends before our separation. Rarely did we get invited to smaller group gatherings. And in my opinion this music circle is rather cliquey. There’s really only two or three people from this crew who could be distancing from us, from my perspective. I feel and have always found this crew to be rather fake and superficial, even before we had our troubles. That’s my view and I keep explaining this to my husband repeatedly. He sees it differently and is taking everything very personally. I don’t necessarily.

I am sure he skewed the difficulties between us to make me look like the one to blame. I am sure he blamed everything on my insecurities about other women, absolving himself and to make himself look better.

I’d rather not worry so much about how this group perceives us - we’ve been happy lately and to me that’s what matters the most.

[Betty_Banana]

Personally I would have interpreted what was said as "you don't have to worry about me cheating again because of what you did all the other women are avoiding me now and I won't gwt another chance to". But that's just me and how I think so take it with a grain of salt.

I also feel something is fishy about the female friends. Have they been flirting with him and now have stopped because they realize oh crap, it does bother her? Idk but I feel there's more to this story that you're not aware of.

[divine1966]

I think these are activity partners rather than actual friends. Not everyone you do hobby things with are necessarily friends.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by Betty_Banana

Personally I would have interpreted what was said as "you don't have to worry about me cheating again because of what you did all the other women are avoiding me now and I won't gwt another chance to". But that's just me and how I think so take it with a grain of salt.

I also feel something is fishy about the female friends. Have they been flirting with him and now have stopped because they realize oh crap, it does bother her? Idk but I feel there's more to this story that you're not aware of.

Oh, hm. I can see how you might think that way, but in my husband's case, I don't think that is accurate.

He knows if he steps out of line that I will leave him promptly, no questions asked. While we were separated for six months and headed for a divorce, he realized and came to terms with the fact that he "cannot live without" me. He says this frequently enough to me whereby I believe him. He would not jeopardize our relationship again for that alone. If he does, then he never truly cared about me and was just full of it all of this time, but I do not think that is the case here.

About his female friends, I don't even know if what he said is in fact even true. IF it is true, then perhaps there was something more going on that I am unaware of, but I don't think so. I think more so he was trying to. upset me OR trying to control how I behave and react to these types of things. I suspect it's the latter, since I dealt with many different controlling behaviors in the past with him. Not all has disappeared magically.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I think these are activity partners rather than actual friends. Not everyone you do hobby things with are necessarily friends.

I think the women he's referring to are in fact within his closer group of friends.

The more I think about it, the less I think it's about them steering clear of him and more about him trying to control how I react to things having to do with other women.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Have Hope

I think the women he's referring to are in fact within his closer group of friends.

The more I think about it, the less I think it's about them steering clear of him and more about him trying to control how I react to things having to do with other women.

They might be his friends but it doesn’t sound like they are yours. Not every individual friend becomes couple’s or other spouse’s friend. None of my girlfriends are my husband’s friends. I mean he is friendly with them but they are my friends.

If these women truly behave the way you described they are not friends of yours. Their loyalty is with your husband. They are people you go to clubs or wherever you listen to the music to. That doesn’t make them friends.

I think you need your own friends. His seem to be bad news. And why isn’t he hanging out wuth guys. What’s with the ladies?

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by divine1966

They might be his friends but it doesn’t sound like they are yours. Not every individual friend becomes couple’s or other spouse’s friend. None of my girlfriends are my husband’s friends. I mean he is friendly with them but they are my friends.

If these women truly behave the way you described they are not friends of yours. Their loyalty is with your husband. They are people you go to clubs or wherever you listen to the music to. That doesn’t make them friends.

I think you need your own friends. His seem to be bad news. And why isn’t he hanging out wuth guys. What’s with the ladies?

He hangs out with the guys too. It’s all couples in his circle of closest friends. I have my own friends. I don’t consider many of his friends to be my friends too. There’s only one female from his whole group that I’ve hung out with 1:1 - we went to the beach together last summer. She wanted to do it again this summer but we haven’t been able to. She’s the only one I may even consider to be close to friendship level with me.

[Have Hope]

We’re having a couples counseling session next week. Update.