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  #26  
Old Aug 23, 2022, 09:01 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Isn't there a pattern of him making incendiary comments during an argument?
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  #27  
Old Aug 24, 2022, 05:45 AM
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Isn't there a pattern of him making incendiary comments during an argument?
Yes, there is. Thank you for pointing this out - it will help me next week in our session.

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  #28  
Old Aug 27, 2022, 02:40 PM
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I'm upset. I think that my husband still to this day is not taking FULL responsibility for his short-lived emotional affair. I think he believes because there was no physical touching involved or sexual activity that he did not "step outside of the marriage". He said in our fight that he did not step outside of the marriage, when he DID. He was developing a flirtatious relationship with a co-worker and they were texting flirtatiously. He had said "probably see you in my dreams" one night to her. Is that not an emotional affair? Am I wrong in my thinking? He DID step outside our marriage and I am peeved at the moment. I wonder how much good a year of individual therapy has actually done for him, if he still cannot take responsibility.

AND.... to then also blame ME for his female friends distancing themselves from him/us, because of how I reacted to a woman hitting on my husband right in front of me at a wedding? Well, then he steps outside our marriage, and I think that makes me have every right to be wary of other females.

We're going to a concert tonight with a dinner beforehand with a bunch of my husband's friends. I don't even want to go now, I am that upset. But I cannot back out now. I have to suck it up until I can voice my feelings and concerns in our couples therapy session on Tuesday. He thinks we've moved on from our fight last weekend, but I am still reeling with negative emotions as a result. I do not know how to resolve this. He has to take greater ownership and help me to feel confident that he will never step outside our marriage again, no matter what.
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  #29  
Old Aug 27, 2022, 02:50 PM
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Personally, I would be a lot more hurt by an emotional affair than a purely physical one (such as a partner sleeping with a prostitute). Sex doesn't have to involve intimacy. But flirting by text with someone he sees every day would bother me a lot.
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  #30  
Old Aug 27, 2022, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by downandlonely View Post
Personally, I would be a lot more hurt by an emotional affair than a purely physical one (such as a partner sleeping with a prostitute). Sex doesn't have to involve intimacy. But flirting by text with someone he sees every day would bother me a lot.
Thank you for the validation.

It still can rub me even to this day. It's forgiven, but certainly not forgotten.
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  #31  
Old Aug 27, 2022, 03:14 PM
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I’d consider it an affair. It’s crazy he doesn’t think of it this way
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  #32  
Old Aug 27, 2022, 09:42 PM
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From what I know, men and women think a little different in regards to infidelity. I’m not saying that none of the genders consider there’s not an affair when it obvious that it exists.
What I know is that from a male point of view, it’s more serious when the affair of the partner involves physical contact and conversely, us, women, tend to consider worse when in the affair there’s romantic feelings involved, even when there hasn’t been sex.

My two cents, from what I know. Maybe, I’m wrong but it could be a possible explanation for him not seeing it so serious.
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  #33  
Old Aug 28, 2022, 08:09 AM
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I’d consider it an affair. It’s crazy he doesn’t think of it this way
Thank you, divine.

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  #34  
Old Aug 28, 2022, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by AzulOscuro View Post
From what I know, men and women think a little different in regards to infidelity. I’m not saying that none of the genders consider there’s not an affair when it obvious that it exists.
What I know is that from a male point of view, it’s more serious when the affair of the partner involves physical contact and conversely, us, women, tend to consider worse when in the affair there’s romantic feelings involved, even when there hasn’t been sex.

My two cents, from what I know. Maybe, I’m wrong but it could be a possible explanation for him not seeing it so serious.
You make a great point between the differences in how men and women think. Thank you for this.
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  #35  
Old Aug 28, 2022, 10:48 AM
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Well, I TRIED to express my upset to him after he got home from work yesterday. He asked what was wrong, so I told him, very calmly and without anger in my voice. Well, it turned into a fight because he then became upset about the fact that I had been holding this in since our last fight and since I had told him after THAT fight that I could let it go and move on. So because he became upset, he turned it into another fight whereby he almost canceled dinner plans and concert plans. He almost made me go to the concert by myself. He also told me I was childish for running to other rooms while we were arguing. I Was trying to stop the fight. And naturally, once again, he had to bring up whether I even want to be with him. So break up talk happened again too. I told him that's not OK. And this fight happened because he then made it all about HIM, whereas I was the one upset by the things he had said to me the weekend before! He also stated that I won’t find anyone better than him. Really mature.

I am addressing this argument in our couples session Tuesday. We shouldn't fight simply because I am upset about his reactions to me. It shouldn't have to devolve into a fight! We should be able to speak to each other as adults about things that upset us without it turning into a fight. And I hold HIM responsible for this happening.

On the upside, we DID clear up my upset from the prior argument. He took responsibility for his affair and told me that because we were having a hard time was no excuse for what he did. He also backed away from his initial statement that I am the reason why his female friends distance themselves from him. He said he is GUESSING, whereas last weekend, he was blaming me for it by bringing up what happened at that wedding with the flirtatious woman.

I don't like the way he responds to me whenever there's an upsetting issue to discuss. We shouldn't even be fighting over these things! I still see some old behaviors in him and they need to be addressed in therapy or else I am not dealing with it long-term. Lots of things were said that are just not OK with me. These fights are not ok with me.
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Last edited by Have Hope; Aug 28, 2022 at 11:31 AM.
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  #36  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 06:32 AM
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He also threatened to record our fight to prove to someone else that I am in the wrong. Not the first time he's done this. He threatened to record and make our therapist listen to it or my father, when he was alive.

He also criticized me for wanting to table an upsetting discussion until we got to therapy. What is therapy for then? If we cannot handle a discussion over an upsetting issue - if HE cannot handle a discussion - without it turning into a fight, perhaps therapy is a better place for that discussion. That's my rationale, and I think it is sound.

I am bothered that we had yet another fight, on the heels of a fight we had last weekend, all because I had held in my feelings for a week. I had tabled my feelings in order to address and process them - should I just let it go, or discuss it in therapy, is what I was thinking. I wasn't over it.

Is there something wrong with having residual feelings left over from a prior fight, even though I said I could let it go and move on? I meant it when I said I could let it go - but those thoughts were gnawing at me all week long, after I said it. I needed to process more, I did, and it turns out I could not let it go. So what. Crucify me because I still have feelings?

I was still bothered by a couple things he said in that argument, so he turns this discussion around on me to blame ME for carrying it for a week, which he turned into a fight. So, before I know it, we're fighting, and the focus is now on ME for having held this in for a week instead of on HIM for the things he said that were upsetting and wrong. See how he skillfully turns the tables?

That did NOT need to turn into a fight. All he needed to say to me was: Ok, so you're still upset by things I said last weekend - let's talk about it so we can get past this. That's ALL he needed to say! BUT NO... he had to make it all about HIMSELF, how HE feels, and about HIM being upset.

I don't know how to handle couples therapy tonight, to discuss this? Any advice??
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Last edited by Have Hope; Aug 30, 2022 at 07:34 AM.
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  #37  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 08:32 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Threats are a very poor way to conduct an argument. A good therapist wouldn't listen to any such audio.

These threats though are consistent with what seems to be part of his (perhaps unintentional) style of arguing: when emotions are high, escalate to "win" rather than deescalate to seek peace.

This style of argument might be worth discussing tonight?

Quote:
I meant it when I said I could let it go
Possible lesson for the future: since we can't actually control emotions, and since he uses your words against you, perhaps in the future consider not commenting on whether or not you can let something go. "I don't know, we'll see" would be another option.
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  #38  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 10:22 AM
RollercoasterLover RollercoasterLover is offline
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You are allowed to feel whatever you feel. Your husband is allowed to feel what he feels too. Neither one of you has the right to hurt the other person by using their feelings against the other or to hurt the other person. I'm not saying *you* are doing this, just that you both have the same rights in your relationship. He is definitely doing this to you though.

I would bring it up in therapy because it's unlikely to resolve itself and he shouldn't be making you feel bad about having emotions. There's history in your relationship, but you both made a choice to stay married and work things out. Isn't that why you are going to couples therapy, to get help working things out in a healthy productive way?

I agree with Bill3 that your husband is in win mode in arguments. He'd rather be right than happy. He doesn't care how he wins the argument or who he hurts in the process, as long as he wins.

Good luck. I hope your therapy appointment brings you what you need.
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  #39  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
Threats are a very poor way to conduct an argument. A good therapist wouldn't listen to any such audio.

These threats though are consistent with what seems to be part of his (perhaps unintentional) style of arguing: when emotions are high, escalate to "win" rather than deescalate to seek peace.

This style of argument might be worth discussing tonight?


Possible lesson for the future: since we can't actually control emotions, and since he uses your words against you, perhaps in the future consider not commenting on whether or not you can let something go. "I don't know, we'll see" would be another option.
Thank you @Bill3. You stated this perfectly: he argues to WIN and it's his style of fighting that bothers me. I am trying to resolve the issue through a calm adult discussion, while he finds things to be upset with ME over, so that the heat is taken off of him and he doesn't need to take responsibility.

I will be addressing this in therapy - thanks for the advice! It helps!!
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  #40  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RollercoasterLover View Post
You are allowed to feel whatever you feel. Your husband is allowed to feel what he feels too. Neither one of you has the right to hurt the other person by using their feelings against the other or to hurt the other person. I'm not saying *you* are doing this, just that you both have the same rights in your relationship. He is definitely doing this to you though.

I would bring it up in therapy because it's unlikely to resolve itself and he shouldn't be making you feel bad about having emotions. There's history in your relationship, but you both made a choice to stay married and work things out. Isn't that why you are going to couples therapy, to get help working things out in a healthy productive way?

I agree with Bill3 that your husband is in win mode in arguments. He'd rather be right than happy. He doesn't care how he wins the argument or who he hurts in the process, as long as he wins.

Good luck. I hope your therapy appointment brings you what you need.
Thanks so much, and yes he is - he is using my own words against me as a weapon so that we don't focus on what he's done wrong and so that we focus instead on something I have done wrong. It's deflection.

I am all worked up over this right now and am worried I will show it in therapy tonight.
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  #41  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 11:10 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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I am all worked up over this right now and am worried I will show it in therapy tonight.
What would be wrong with it showing in therapy?
  #42  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 11:13 AM
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What would be wrong with it showing in therapy?
I suppose nothing really. I just don’t want to create more tension.
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  #43  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 02:54 PM
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I suppose nothing really. I just don’t want to create more tension.
I think sometimes having tension is the only way to get something resolved. If you are afraid to be yourself in front of the therapist because you don’t want tension, then it might not be worth it to have a session. Be yourself. If you are upset, be upset.
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  #44  
Old Aug 30, 2022, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
I think sometimes having tension is the only way to get something resolved. If you are afraid to be yourself in front of the therapist because you don’t want tension, then it might not be worth it to have a session. Be yourself. If you are upset, be upset.
Thanks, divine. I will be myself. And I am upset.
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  #45  
Old Aug 31, 2022, 06:25 AM
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So, I wrote my thoughts down that I wanted to express to the therapist and mainly to my husband in the therapy session. I wanted to be able to express everything without interruption and without getting derailed. I was reading it out loud at home to see how it sounded, and my husband walked in, telling me he had heard me. He asked to read what I had written, before we went to therapy. I said sure, why not. He read it and responded to my points, which initiated a calm discussion about each of my points. This discussion carried on through our drive to the therapist. We basically had covered all points ourselves and had our own therapy session just the two of us. It was very beneficial and productive.

We talked more in the therapy session, though we had worked out most of everything in the car.

He is willing to continue to grow and change his behaviors, which makes me happy. All in all, I feel good about the session and about our discussion of the issues.
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  #46  
Old Aug 31, 2022, 07:34 AM
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Wow!
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  #47  
Old Aug 31, 2022, 07:40 AM
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Good job!
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  #48  
Old Aug 31, 2022, 11:34 AM
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Thanks @Bill3 and @divine1966!!

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