[Wawrzyn]

The reading I've done on the subject seems to indicate that whenever a patient "falls in love" with his or her therapist it is a sign of transference and an indicative that something was missing in the patient's childhood.

I don't doubt that's true in many cases, but are there cases where patients legitimately fall in love with their therapists just as they would have fallen in love with any other loving, caring human being?

this is an interesting question. i don't think i know enough about this to be able to answer it adequately but there are others here who probably do. one thing though is the nature of the T relationship. it isn't equal from the get-go. there is a power imbalance because only the client is being vulnerable and sharing their innermost thoughts and feelings. of course the relationship is meant to be that way in order to help the client heal, but it does set up a different sort of dynamic than one would find in a regular romantic relationship. because of that you aren't really seeing T in the totality of who they are. so, the person you are falling in love with is a lot of what you imagine they must be rather than who they really are. your feelings are still real and valid though. maybe you are falling in love with a small part of T that you are allowed to see but if you saw the rest of the person you wouldn't necessarily feel the same.

[Wawrzyn]

bloom3, everything you wrote makes perfect sense, with the exception of this part:

Originally Posted by bloom3

there is a power imbalance because only the client is being vulnerable and sharing their innermost thoughts and feelings.

Sure there is an imbalance and sure only the patient is sharing his thoughts and feelings, but can you please give me an example of an instance when the "power imbalance" and "vulnerability" on the part of the patient would negatively affect a personal relationship with the therapist?

I would imagine that if the therapist and the patient decided to have a personal relationship once the therapy is over, the playing field would gradually even out and the therapist would eventually share his or her thoughts and feelings with the patient. If it turns out that there is no chemistry between the 'real' therapist and the former patient, it means that the relationship did not work, and the patient and the therapist part ways.

It doesn't seem to me like the relationship is necessarily heading for disaster just because one side did not open up early enough. It's also kind of obvious, I think, that the image that a professional presents while doing his or her job is not necessarily an accurate reflection of who they are in real life, though I'd wager that in most cases it's probably not too far-off.

Given that I am not the type of person who tends to open up and share his thoughts and feelings with people, I would argue that I am in a better position to do well in a relationship with the therapist now that the opening up phase, which would likely not have occurred otherwise, is taken care of.

[Brightheart]

It puts the therapist in a position of power over a client. The roles of the relationship are set and defined. This would be challenging to adjust to even after therapy ended. Most people we meet do not know our innermost pains and certainly wouldn't start out knowing them when we knew nothing of theirs. A friendship would be very challenging, I would imagine, though perhaps not impossible. A romantic relationship would likely not be healthy for a client with a former therapist...even many years down the road...Just my personal thoughts on the matter.

Wawrzyn, I think when I "fell in love" with my therapist...I was really "falling in love" with me, the person I became when I was with T.

Is it possible to fall in love with T without transference? I don't have an answer for you but I can offer this. Once my former T and I were having a discussion, when the therapeutic frame broke. He became emotional (bottom lip quivering) which caught us both off guard. It shook us both up and I am not sure either, of us, ever recovered.

I think it is possible to fall in love with someone without knowing about their life outside of the therapy office. Therapy CAN be messy sometimes, and the real "work" comes in how you respond and handle those experiences, and sadly, also those limitations.

w, this article helps explain why there is a power imbalance with the client and T even once the therapy has ended which it addresses at the end of the article: Client-Therapist Sex in the Regressive Therapies.

like brightheart has said, it's about the roles. the T is in the role of an authority/parental figure in your life and once that relational dynamic is set up it will form and inform the relationship. can it ever be modified? idk, but transference isn't really something to try mess with imo because it is unconscious and so you would necessarily be unaware of it's influence in your life...until too late.

i'm sorry you are having to deal with this. i know it's a real pain in the rear as i have it with a friend who i've helped out spiritually. i have found it does get easier in time. we don't have as much contact as we used to and it doesn't bother me that much anymore.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Wawrzyn

The reading I've done on the subject seems to indicate that whenever a patient "falls in love" with his or her therapist it is a sign of transference and an indicative that something was missing in the patient's childhood.

I don't doubt that's true in many cases, but are there cases where patients legitimately fall in love with their therapists just as they would have fallen in love with any other loving, caring human being?

I bet if you looked around the internet you can find cases where there are people who have fallen in love (liked their personality, looks and had a great time doing normal dating things) with their treatment providers.

it happens all the time bosses and secretaries, teachers and students, physicians and patients, rapists and victims...

its all out there you just have to go looking and keep your eyes open to see that yes some people who start out having a professional relationship do in fact turn those professional relationships into personal relationships.

most states now do carry what it called "Dual relationship" laws, rules in almost every career, because it is recognized that people do naturally develop relationships to each other including interpersonal, intimate ones. human beings are a social species.

to find out if you and your therapist could ever have such a relationship as a friendship or anything more intimate ask your therapist about your locations "dual relationship" laws in psychotherapy.

[Wawrzyn]

Originally Posted by bloom3

w, this article helps explain why there is a power imbalance with the client and T even once the therapy has ended which it addresses at the end of the article: Client-Therapist Sex in the Regressive Therapies.

I never mentioned sexual desire. I think I am missing something here.

okay, sorry. usually falling in love and sexual desire go together...at least in my mind.

[Wawrzyn]

Originally Posted by bloom3

okay, sorry. usually falling in love and sexual desire go together...at least in my mind.

I think that's true in the case of most females who "fall in love".

[sharon123]

I fell in love with my t......it hasn't changed after 7 years........I went for a business dispute, and simply stayed with him when it was over. We are...having a personal relationship, and there is no power differential; he considers me a colleague.

[happyflowergirl]

Originally Posted by sharon123

I fell in love with my t......it hasn't changed after 7 years........I went for a business dispute, and simply stayed with him when it was over. We are...having a personal relationship, and there is no power differential; he considers me a colleague.

Hmmm... If you were to stop paying him, would he continue to see you?

Seems like there must be some power he holds over you if you continue to see him for 7 years, even though you say you don't need therapy or ever have and you know his behavior is unethical on many levels. If he was having a real personal relationship with you either as a friend, lover or colleague, would he be charging you to do so? If things are equal, one wouldn't be paying the other big bucks just to hang on to the "personal relationship." Well I do understand, it may not be a power differential, it is called unethical therapy abuse. It is of his doing that makes you think this way. It is his delusions that you are believing that he tells you when he tells you that you are a colleague. I know one thing, when I become a T and If I ever have a colleague that does what he does, he won't have have a license anymore. He uses this "you are a colleague" to feed his delusions that what he is doing is okay, that somehow he isn't being unethical because you were really not a client.

I wonder if he sees this relationship the same as you? If he does, then he is being very unethical, not just with his sexual advances but with his morals of his job profession. But you know this in your heart.

I am worried as someone who says they are going into the field, that you would condone this behavior and accept it even for yourself. Even though you say you are in love with him, what is this saying about your soon to be professional morals of allowing him to keep abusing you in this way? Would you support another T who is married and making sexual advances to his clients? Or would you support a client who has been through this crap, who has been hurt very badly because of it? You can't support both sides of a moral fence.

What if a client comes onto you and says they are in love with you? Are you going to deal with it ethically or do what you your T is doing to you and what you are allowing him to do? You see it isn't just HIS morals I am questioning, it is yours because you are also going into the same profession. Plus you have been pining for a married man for over 7 years, how mentally healthy is that? Studies have shown that T's who look the other way when their colleagues do this behavior or when they don't believe the client that this happened, or who don't acknowledge the real damage it causes a client, is usually a T who has been through this before or have done the same with their own clients.

I have been through this myself, and have come through to the other side of it with much painful therapy work. I must say that when you are in the thick of things, in this kind of abusing relationship, things are very blurry in perception. I know your story because you have told me personally, and from you are saying here to what I know personally, you are not being totally honest with yourself or anyone else here. He is abusing you on so many levels. I don't blame you, I blame him for all of this.

All I know is that I would never want to be with a man who would take thousands of dollars away me for years, who still tries to have his cake and eat it too with other women while being married, and would risk his professional job(s) in this way.

Don't you deserve better than this, even if he wasn't your T? Would you want to be with a man with those kind of morals who takes those kinds of risks?
What is even more sad about this was that you have been through church abuse already, (you know the pain of this) but don't you see that him being a pastor and abusing you, you really haven't gotten away from any of it? He is doing what was already done to you, just in another way. If anything a much more damaging way.

I understand the push pull lure of this relationship, I just hope that when you see the reality of what he is really doing to you, you will see that you have been a victim of his abuse and deserve so much better than this on so many levels. Someone who abuses you will never give you the love you deserve, I sometimes wonder if they know how to love anyone else but themselves. You can keep telling yourself what you have in the above, but it won't make it true just because denial is easier to believe than the truth.

[Whataguy7]

Originally Posted by Wawrzyn

The reading I've done on the subject seems to indicate that whenever a patient "falls in love" with his or her therapist it is a sign of transference and an indicative that something was missing in the patient's childhood.

I don't doubt that's true in many cases, but are there cases where patients legitimately fall in love with their therapists just as they would have fallen in love with any other loving, caring human being?

Don't get caught into that theory they are all nuttty people. they need help themselves. tevery therapist has most likely areason to have become one themselves

[christa]

Originally Posted by Wawrzyn

The reading I've done on the subject seems to indicate that whenever a patient "falls in love" with his or her therapist it is a sign of transference and an indicative that something was missing in the patient's childhood.

I don't doubt that's true in many cases, but are there cases where patients legitimately fall in love with their therapists just as they would have fallen in love with any other loving, caring human being?

Patients' do not actually fall in love with the therapist, it just feels that way to them. The patient is not in a position where he can view the therapist in an objective manner, and he misinterprets the situation. Transference doesn't necessarilly indicate that there was something missing in the patients' childhood. Transference is nothing but a therapuetic technique.

[mark366160]

Christa... while I agree about not being able to view a therapist objectively, and the misinterpretations involved, I don't think transference is just a therapeutic technique. What I understand is that transference is you transferring feelings that are associated with someone in your past onto someone in the present. Essentially, every person you ever meet you experience "transference" with. When you fall in love at first sight, you instantly hate someone, you feel kinship with someone you don't know... intuition about someone new... all kinds of stuff, you see something in someone that reminds you of something about someone else you know, knew or maybe you idolize. To me, transference is just a psychological term for how we interpret all people we meet.

Can you fall in love at first sight? Lots of people do. When this happens, do they stay together forever, or once they determine what's really under the hood, do they end it? If you fall in love at first sight, can that not be with a therapist? I think you can. You want to call it transference, fine. Call it chicken soup. It's how everything works when you meet anyone you don't know. The situation tends to create it... the openness... the emotional closeness. It's, like you said, a problem with interpretation of the setting. I also think therapists can fall in love with clients in the same way... or actually much more clearly, since they know a hell of a lot more about you than you know about them. To me, when viewed from the client side as a person who has "fallen in love" with their therapist, other than this misinterpretation thing, it's hard to get my head around the idea that this therapist may have 50 other people that are all in love with them... and trying to deal with them all ethically, without hurting feelings or egos or whatever. It's hard for me to imagine either how truly special these people are, or how completely messed up they have to be to be able to control this mess... and that I'm contributing to it...

Sorry for the long rant...