[Elizabeth Connor]

To the ladies : Maybe there are a few success stories where a Therapist and client started a relationship and lived happily ever after, but I can imagine those stories to be just that….few. These “feelings” toward your Therapist seem so real, mixed with the obsession of having something so close but yet so out of reach. It is only human I think to want some conclusion. It all sounds very romantic…………many woman would love to be rescued by that noble knight in shining armour, and doesn’t our attractive, sensitive, in control Therapist just fit that role perfectly? But in reality if something like that should happen to you, it will only end in a painful tragedy for both of you (and more). The extend of your emotional and psychological damage will be something you could never imagine. Your struggle will be solitary and underrated. Your mind will never be the same again; you’ll feel lost, betrayed, abused, and confused (EVEN if it was something you wanted). No relationship of that kind starts on level ground – rather compare it to a father daughter relationship evolving into something romantic and sexual than a fairy tale…………it is more realistic. An there is nothing noble about a Therapist’s betrayal of trust………no matter where in his life HE is. Do yourself a favour and read this research article (without spaces) kspope . com / sexiss / sexencyc . php

Excellent article! Thanks for sharing.

[unaluna]

Thanks for the ref to this website. There are a lot of good articles with interesting insights to the therapeutic process in general, like about trust and power, that are of concern to many here, that don't have "romantic" issues.

One thing I would like to look at, that jumped out at me in the articles, is the claim that there is "no" commonality among the victims except that they sought therapy, therefore the fault lies in the therapists. That does not explain the common thing the victims and perps are feeling, which was described by the victims wanting to be special (to the parent), the best, and the type of sexual contact that is most common, and the high rate of after trauma, which to me seems like countertransferential feelings or projective identification of hateful feelings of the parent for the child. Isn't it really just that simple? (No wonder my therapist accuses me of being a Freudian!)

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by hankster

(No wonder my therapist accuses me of being a Freudian!)

Is your therapist a Jungian then?

[Elizabeth Connor]

I'm not sure whether I understand what you are saying exactly (), sorry English is not my home language. I'd like to understand though if you can explain your theory again.
In my opinion.......from a client's point of view it's simpler than from a Therapist point of view (mostly), especially for women who are attracted to power. For the Therapists - each situation has different merits, it has a lot to do with their own lives and where they're at. Maybe they can only convince themselves so many times that this woman sitting in front of them are not really attracted to them (the transference thing). Her current needs are a perfect fit to his current needs - his wife burns all his food and his client is a gourmet chef ........and it all becomes too much to resist! But the reality is larger than life.

[unaluna]

Elizabeth, thanks for your response. First let me say that although I am still actively dealing with my feelings for my therapist, I am not in any danger.

What I said about power related to something else. I don't think women are drawn to the therapist's power, except perhaps as parental power and love - for their approval. I tell my T that if he would marry me, then "everything would be alright." That sounds childish, doesn't it? In the same way a mother's kiss will make my hurt finger feel better. We are rejected by our own families, and want to be accepted immediately into the therapist's family, by having them be our lover or even friend.

I am saying that not enough is being done to explain to the client that this is where her feelings are coming from. Was it obvious to everyone else and just not to me? What more can be done to help the client see all facets of this, is my question. These facets could include talking about what her sexual fantasies are. Why is the actual activity so heavily weighted to one thing?

One of the articles said, the only thing the women had in common was, they sought therapy. They had not all been sexually abused, etc etc etc. Therefore it MUST HAVE BEEN the therapist. This is bad science. Maybe what the women had in common was not measured. How about type of attachment? Pre-verbal vs Oedipal? I wish I had more technical knowledge; I don't know if my questions or answers are universal or personal.

Thank you so much for your interest. I appreciate your time.

[Marie123]

My situation is different. I went to my t for a business dispute, and stayed with him when it was resolved....after 7 years, my feelings have not changed.

[openmind0722]

I guess I am one of the few - my ex T and I now live together (he bought a house for me and the kids in August) - it has bumps in adjusting to life as a personal relationship but in no way did being with him impact me to damaging me psychologically. I just love him so deeply and the love given back is now from man to woman and so deep and rich I never thought it possible to exist in life.

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Connor

To the ladies : Maybe there are a few success stories where a Therapist and client started a relationship and lived happily ever after, but I can imagine those stories to be just that….few. These “feelings” toward your Therapist seem so real, mixed with the obsession of having something so close but yet so out of reach. It is only human I think to want some conclusion. It all sounds very romantic…………many woman would love to be rescued by that noble knight in shining armour, and doesn’t our attractive, sensitive, in control Therapist just fit that role perfectly? But in reality if something like that should happen to you, it will only end in a painful tragedy for both of you (and more). The extend of your emotional and psychological damage will be something you could never imagine. Your struggle will be solitary and underrated. Your mind will never be the same again; you’ll feel lost, betrayed, abused, and confused (EVEN if it was something you wanted). No relationship of that kind starts on level ground – rather compare it to a father daughter relationship evolving into something romantic and sexual than a fairy tale…………it is more realistic. An there is nothing noble about a Therapist’s betrayal of trust………no matter where in his life HE is. Do yourself a favour and read this research article (without spaces) kspope . com / sexiss / sexencyc . php

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Connor

To the ladies : Maybe there are a few success stories where a Therapist and client started a relationship and lived happily ever after, but I can imagine those stories to be just that….few. These “feelings” toward your Therapist seem so real, mixed with the obsession of having something so close but yet so out of reach. It is only human I think to want some conclusion. It all sounds very romantic…………many woman would love to be rescued by that noble knight in shining armour, and doesn’t our attractive, sensitive, in control Therapist just fit that role perfectly? But in reality if something like that should happen to you, it will only end in a painful tragedy for both of you (and more). The extend of your emotional and psychological damage will be something you could never imagine. Your struggle will be solitary and underrated. Your mind will never be the same again; you’ll feel lost, betrayed, abused, and confused (EVEN if it was something you wanted). No relationship of that kind starts on level ground – rather compare it to a father daughter relationship evolving into something romantic and sexual than a fairy tale…………it is more realistic. An there is nothing noble about a Therapist’s betrayal of trust………no matter where in his life HE is. Do yourself a favour and read this research article (without spaces) kspope . com / sexiss / sexencyc . php

would you mind sending the link again? It seems to be broken or not the right URL. I'm interested in reading this...thanks a lot! MCL

[Elizabeth Connor]

Hi, for some reason it doesn't allow me to post a reply with the link - that is why I add spaces so it is not recognised as a link. If you paste it and just remove the spaces, it should work?? Hope you come right.
http: // kspope . com / sexiss / sexencyc . php

[Elizabeth Connor]

Originally Posted by openmind0722

I guess I am one of the few - my ex T and I now live together (he bought a house for me and the kids in August) - it has bumps in adjusting to life as a personal relationship but in no way did being with him impact me to damaging me psychologically. I just love him so deeply and the love given back is now from man to woman and so deep and rich I never thought it possible to exist in life.

I am happy for you as I would be for anyone that has found happiness and hopefully it didn't come at the expense of someone else's unhappiness? I guess the difference is all in the Therapist's intentions. And I do think that your success situation is in the minority. There wouldn't be ethic rules wrt this if it didn't have potential to cause a lot of damage.

[Elizabeth Connor]

Originally Posted by hankster

Elizabeth, thanks for your response. First let me say that although I am still actively dealing with my feelings for my therapist, I am not in any danger.

What I said about power related to something else. I don't think women are drawn to the therapist's power, except perhaps as parental power and love - for their approval. I tell my T that if he would marry me, then "everything would be alright." That sounds childish, doesn't it? In the same way a mother's kiss will make my hurt finger feel better. We are rejected by our own families, and want to be accepted immediately into the therapist's family, by having them be our lover or even friend.

I am saying that not enough is being done to explain to the client that this is where her feelings are coming from. Was it obvious to everyone else and just not to me? What more can be done to help the client see all facets of this, is my question. These facets could include talking about what her sexual fantasies are. Why is the actual activity so heavily weighted to one thing?

One of the articles said, the only thing the women had in common was, they sought therapy. They had not all been sexually abused, etc etc etc. Therefore it MUST HAVE BEEN the therapist. This is bad science. Maybe what the women had in common was not measured. How about type of attachment? Pre-verbal vs Oedipal? I wish I had more technical knowledge; I don't know if my questions or answers are universal or personal.

Thank you so much for your interest. I appreciate your time.

Hi there, all people who go to a Therapist do have in common that they seek therapy, not so? It's a vulnerable state and I do think the majority of people (especially women) would be impressed by someone focussing on just you for a whole hour, it seldom works like that in real life though. But I agree with what you're saying about not enough being done to explain to clients where their feelings are coming from....and it is not a very comfortable subject. Maybe there should be some kind of prerequisite that each client should do a crash course about the ethics of therapy and the transference thing (I suppose there are Therapists who do put effort into that). Knowledge empowers, but in my opinion some T's want to keep the power and stay in control. I could have surely done with that knowledge in an honest truthful manner at the time. My T had such an unhappy marriage for many many years and unlucky for me, when I ended up in his office, he had reached the bottom of his defence mechanisms. The mix was potent - I'm a strong character......he was stronger (a lot stronger). I was tired of taking lead, he was a leader. I was emotionally starved.......he was a never ending source of emotional subsistence. I craved relationship - he even more. I was sexually neglected - he even more. I never realized though that the person I knew in therapy is not all there is about him. By the time we started a relationship, I was so trained to trust him and love him that I accepted too much of his unreasonable and abusive behaviour in the time we were together. He was possessive, overbearing, manipulative, critical and inconsiderate (and believe me the therapy continued in the relationship whether I wanted it or not, I was just not paying for it any longer). I could NEVER win an argument. NOBODY before succeeded in treating me that way. Even that he convinced me at the time was "surrender". Long story short - it took more than I can describe to leave (imagine my dependence after 8 months therapy and 10 months intense relationship). Today I struggle as I miss him so much (as a Therapist more than anything, although the border lines are vague) and I HATE that the most. I never want to see him again though - He stole my mind and damaged it. This is such good therapy for me to write about it!!

[wintergirl]

Thanks for sharing your story, EC! This is purely out of curiosity, but how old were you and your T during the relationship? I'm sorry you're still hurting - that sounds like a horrible ending to a relationship.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Marie123

My situation is different. I went to my t for a business dispute, and stayed with him when it was resolved....after 7 years, my feelings have not changed.

Marie, I don't know if you want input on this or not, but here goes anyway. I have been a state of unrequited love with a neighbor (in my apartment tower) for the past 20 years, so I kind of know how you feel. But I would say my feelings for him HAVE changed over the years, as we both have changed and grown and gotten to know each other, and been satisfied and disappointed in various ways. So are you "stuck" here for some other reason? Is it more that you are involved with a married man who just happens to be a therapist? That is the feeling I get about it, it was never about the therapy.

So how do you stop being the mistress (physical or emotional) of a therapist? Do you see ANOTHER therapist?! It seems you are in an impossible situation, with no way out.

Which to my Freudian brain means, you are dealing with some "impossible" problem from your past that you feel no T can ever help you with, or something along those lines, so you are forever stuck. Hmm, this might work for anybody who is feeling stuck. Hmm, how am *I* feeling stuck, aside from the fact that I have to squeeze from space to space in my apartment?! Geez, every which way. Financially, physically, emotionally, you name it. New thread? How are you stuck? Or is that too general, or been done already.

[Elizabeth Connor]

Originally Posted by wintergirl

Thanks for sharing your story, EC! This is purely out of curiosity, but how old were you and your T during the relationship? I'm sorry you're still hurting - that sounds like a horrible ending to a relationship.

It was indeed horrible for everyone involved.....if added together, lots of pain I was 40 and he was 53 when the relationship started.

[openmind0722]

I agree - I am in the minority - it is rare for me to be in this position and no, I do not recommend doing what I did to anyone - it was my personal choice / situation and it had alot of bumps to get to where I am now. And yes, the ethic rule is in place for a reason - I agree whole heartedly - just my situation vs another's which is why I can never judge anyone - unless you've been in their shoes, in their situation, you cannot judge it this is why I thought your thoughts for Marie are interesting - I know her well and I think it is a "stuck" thing, impossible........I like how you worded the reply to her - lots of food for thought in how to approach the solution.

Wow, 20 years with the neighbor - very unrequited!

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Connor

I am happy for you as I would be for anyone that has found happiness and hopefully it didn't come at the expense of someone else's unhappiness? I guess the difference is all in the Therapist's intentions. And I do think that your success situation is in the minority. There wouldn't be ethic rules wrt this if it didn't have potential to cause a lot of damage.

[openmind0722]

I agree - I am in the minority and I never recommend my path to another - this is why I cannot judge anyone - I am not in their shoes to judge a darn thing.

I like how you worded your reply to Marie - I know her well and it is a very stuck and impossible situation - your reply even gave me food for thought - makes you feel less alone in it hearing how your situation with the neighbor has been 20 years strong - wow, very unrequited!

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Connor

I am happy for you as I would be for anyone that has found happiness and hopefully it didn't come at the expense of someone else's unhappiness? I guess the difference is all in the Therapist's intentions. And I do think that your success situation is in the minority. There wouldn't be ethic rules wrt this if it didn't have potential to cause a lot of damage.

[Marie123]

Hey, Hankster: Your input is welcomed! I don't think of myself as 'stuck"--because that conveys that I cannot do anything. I could of course, but then I would be giving up someone I love, and that would be MORE painful than staying.

I told him that I would rather be IN pain with him, that in pain WithOUT him.

Unfortunately, he has led me on (way to long to go into here). Thanks for the input.

"IF I were not married, I would probably go for it." One of the hundreds of provocative comments.....so what do I do with THAT?! He IS married. Perhaps some day i will give him the letter I wrote 3 years ago...the 'How could you do this to me" letter.

[Marie123]

P.S. Hankster....Nope, not dealing with anything from the past....did that homework centuries ago. Went to my t for a church thing (because he is also....ready? A pastor....) www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com

My church voted me out of membership, etc., and I fought the system for 18 months with my t (who was my Knight in Shining Armor),,,,,and yes, we have grown, happy, disappointed; all of the human emotions.

There isn't a subject I don't believe we have not discussed......sex, love, death, paraphilias, palm reading...the list is endless LOL

[homealone]

Ca. Dept of Consumer Affairs must believe sexual abuse in therapy is a big enough problem to spend the $$ to publish and distribute these.
Anyone seen them? (cut & paste)

www.bbs.ca.gov/pdf/publications/proftherapy.pdf

smith.soehd.csufresno.edu/proftherapy.pdf

Now my question is, who professionally would you trust for therapy to get over sexual abuse from your therapist?
Where does someone go for therapy to get over therapy?
Tom S. in Tn.

[homealone]

#14;
posted by Hankster, " So how do you stop being the mistress (physical or emotional) of a therapist? Do you see ANOTHER therapist?! It seems you are in an impossible situation, with no way out. "

Will someone please address this. Being sexually molested by a social worker when I was 17, I've fought over this issue for right at 4 decades now. Am I done for? Is this it? Was therapy with sexual assault all I get to have??
Some one please address this.
Should this be a new thread topic for discussion ?
Tom S. in Tn.

P.S. Here is the link to Ken Pope. May have to cut & paste, but I've had it bookmarked for a couple years now. Just need to know what to do from here.

http://kspope.com/sexiss/sexencyc.php

[unaluna]

Hi Tom. Didn't I see another post by you where you said you were not comfortable going back to therapy? (I can't search the posts on my phone.) So did you ever see a lawyer? Wouldn't this have been considered child sexual abuse by a doctor, not just "simple" doctor-patient? You ask, is this all you're going to "get". I do think you are "owed" something for what was done to you; you are certainly owed justice. But therapy in our society is a choice unless you commit a crime for which they see it as rehabilitation. I don't know how much recourse you have now, based on these articles; I am not sure how well they apply to your particular uderage case. You kind of need a lot therapy before you learn how to pick the right therapist for you. Catch-55. all over again.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Marie123

www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com

My church voted me out of membership, etc.,

Marie, what an awful thing to go thru! Thanks for sharing your story. How horrible to be ostracized from your community like that, to be made an example of, how ridiculous, how tragic, how vengeful. Oh, wait - how Lifetime TV! Seriously, how terrible for you, but maybe there IS a movie deal in there for you somewhere. You're a good writer, but the money's not in poetry, is it? And there ARE movies being made in Hotlanta, I don't know where exactly in the south you are. I hope you are happy in your new church. The points you made in your blog about how a church SHOULD be, were moving and quite beautiful. Thanks again for sharing your story. I'm so surprised that stuff like that still happens in this day and age.

[homealone]

Originally Posted by hankster

Hi Tom. Didn't I see another post by you where you said you were not comfortable going back to therapy? (I can't search the posts on my phone.) So did you ever see a lawyer? Wouldn't this have been considered child sexual abuse by a doctor, not just "simple" doctor-patient? You ask, is this all you're going to "get". I do think you are "owed" something for what was done to you; you are certainly owed justice. But therapy in our society is a choice unless you commit a crime for which they see it as rehabilitation. I don't know how much recourse you have now, based on these articles; I am not sure how well they apply to your particular uderage case. You kind of need a lot therapy before you learn how to pick the right therapist for you. Catch-55. all over again.

Hankster;
I consulted a lawyer a few years back as an adult after a self professed forensic psych who solicited me off the internet allowed a woman roll a magazine up and shout in my ear one night during an all female group session. In fact I still sit on the legal complaint today, because the state disciplinary board is made up of practitioners who probably share rent on their practices office. They might even carpool together, or been dorm mates in college.
I've had a good lesson in malpractice prosecution.
But back in 73' when I was 17, the social worker guru's had me brainwashed into believing publicly having sex with a prostitute was a necessary form of therapy that would allow me to overcome social phobias around females. And I never even questioned this until many years later as recurring attacks of unprovoked anxiety, dissociation, and flashbacks of being naked and in terror, caused me to look back at my suicide attempt that followed.
Bastards never even bothered to question that I had been sexually molested when I was young kid.

With regard to therapy, I can save you the trouble of the search, because there is no way I'm going to allow another person to think for me ever again, even if they do have a PhD.
Transference games, EMDR, are all out of the question and I don't know just what I'd do if someone wanted to try hypnotize me.

I agree Hank. I firmly believe I'm owed something as well. Respect. Dignity. Personal integrity. And I could add to the list all day, but I've yet to have one of these psych professionals even validate what they did to me, let alone have one of them come out and say I'm sorry for what another member and my profession did to you, just seems too much to even pray for.
This psych industry is not at all unlike the Catholic church or the football league when it comes to protection of their kind.

Instead if you would Hankster, spend some time for me thinking about where I could find another person, capable of listening to things like I have just written and would not think I owed them something later.
There has to be at least one other person left in the entire world, and the internet can locate them.
Be well Hank; Tom S. in Tn.

[ladyjrnlist]

I am struggling with a love for my T that developed over a year's time. He told me he loved me first, and began saying and doing affectionate things during our sessions. I was already "secretly" attracted to him, so I was thrilled. Then, he suddenly withdrew his affections and said we had to keep it professional or he could lose his license. He was more worried about that than my feelings. So, with the help of my pdoc, I found a new T and filed a complaint against the old one with the licensing board. How do you like them apples?!
Still, five months later, I miss him and think about him a lot. Sigh.