[rainbow8]

I thought my own thread might help me. I don't understand if you can be physically attracted and sexually aroused by a T but not think about doing anything with her. That's how I feel. I don't know why Tthinks I am bisexual. I want the romance and to feel good but I haven't had a satisfying sex life in marriage. I feel like I missed out! I don't care if it's a man or a woman who can give me those excited feelings but I don't think I'd want to reciprocate with a woman.

I feel so mixed up. I don't think I'm normal; I didn't handle growing up well at all but now it's too late. Sex and my body are icky.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I thought my own thread might help me. I don't understand if you can be physically attracted and sexually aroused by a T but not think about doing anything with her. That's how I feel. I don't know why Tthinks I am bisexual. I want the romance and to feel good but I haven't had a satisfying sex life in marriage. I feel like I missed out! I don't care if it's a man or a woman who can give me those excited feelings but I don't think I'd want to reciprocate with a woman.

I feel so mixed up. I don't think I'm normal; I didn't handle growing up well at all but now it's too late. Sex and my body are icky.

I'm sorry you haven't had a good sex life in your marriage. I adored my female psychiatrist that I had from age 11-21, and was dependent and loved her, but I didn't feel any physical attraction and not want to do anything with her. Same thing with my female T now. So I can kind of understand why your T might wonder if you are bisexual. But maybe the emotional part is all you need to feel sexual attraction, especially if you have had negative sexual experiences in your past with men? Have any other men other than your H made you feel the way your therapist does?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I'm sorry you haven't had a good sex life in your marriage. I adored my female psychiatrist that I had from age 11-21, and was dependent and loved her, but I didn't feel any physical attraction and not want to do anything with her. Same thing with my female T now. So I can kind of understand why your T might wonder if you are bisexual. But maybe the emotional part is all you need to feel sexual attraction, especially if you have had negative sexual experiences in your past with men? Have any other men other than your H made you feel the way your therapist does?

Thanks, Lauliza. Yes, I've felt the same for men, and did feel it for my H before we got married. I had a bf before my H, also. After marriage I had feelings for a friend of my H, and I DID fantasize about him. Then I saw my first T and the pattern continued. I agree that the emotional part is a big turn on for me but I didn't feel this way about one past T because she wasn't physically attractive to me. I still had transference and was attached to her.

[iheartjacques]

Do you have a pattern of initially wanting someone, and then when you get them or get to know them, the reality's not so good so you move onto the next person?

[Wren_]

Rain have you ever had a male T? do you think if you had one who was also giving you what you crave by way of attention and touch etc. that you would have a similar reaction

Is the draw thinking (at some level) that someone desires you because of the attention and therefore they become desirable to you?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by iheartjacques

Do you have a pattern of initially wanting someone, and then when you get them or get to know them, the reality's not so good so you move onto the next person?

Not really. The only one I ever "got" was my H. I wouldn't act on anything with someone outside of marriage.

Originally Posted by tigergirl

Rain have you ever had a male T? do you think if you had one who was also giving you what you crave by way of attention and touch etc. that you would have a similar reaction

Is the draw thinking (at some level) that someone desires you because of the attention and therefore they become desirable to you?

I've never trusted myself to have a male T because I thought I'd be "in love with him" much worse than with female Ts. I am pretty sure I prefer men over women but I learned that it doesn't matter since it happened with female Ts too. I had a male pdoc for a short time and though I didn't like him, I probably would have had those feelings for him. I just know the attraction would happen with a male T.

No, I don't think it has to do with my thinking they are desiring me because of the attention. I do think the attention probably triggers my reaction, though. Therapy is intense and exciting for me, and a little scary as I never used to allow myself to become so close to anyone.

[rainbow8]

Thanks for the hugs, Sabina and tigergirl.

[HazelGirl]

I really do think it's because of safety, rainbow. You know your T will be okay with your feelings, and that you can have them without worrying about it "going further". You also trust her a lot and are emotionally intimate with her. All of these things could lead to sexual feelings, even if you're not bi-sexual. Because it's okay to have those feelings, you allow yourself to have them.

Do you feel safe in your marriage like you do in therapy? Can you tell your husband anything and know you will be accepted? Based on what you've said, the answer is no. You don't feel the same level of safety with him.

This is derailing Rainbow, but I can't believe you have the courage to go to these deep places with your T. It's way more than most people could handle.

[Restin]

What's way-over-the-top-weird is how Transference love can warp what T looks like. Talk about blind! I had such a childish view of my T that it took two years to notice that she is half as tall as I am and only a few years younger.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

I really do think it's because of safety, rainbow. You know your T will be okay with your feelings, and that you can have them without worrying about it "going further". You also trust her a lot and are emotionally intimate with her. All of these things could lead to sexual feelings, even if you're not bi-sexual. Because it's okay to have those feelings, you allow yourself to have them.

Do you feel safe in your marriage like you do in therapy? Can you tell your husband anything and know you will be accepted? Based on what you've said, the answer is no. You don't feel the same level of safety with him.

Yes, I feel very safe with my T but I didn't feel very safe with my first T yet I had the same feelings about her. Even worse because I didn't understand transference then. My H was quite jealous of her and he would say " why don't you move in with her?"I'd be so ashamed. No I don't feel emotionally safe with my h. I can tell him anything but he doesn't respond in a helpful way.

Originally Posted by Clementine K

This is derailing Rainbow, but I can't believe you have the courage to go to these deep places with your T. It's way more than most people could handle.

What do you mean? You don't believe me or are you complimenting me? I never was so honest with my previous 4 Ts. I kept asking my current T if anything was TMI and she said no. She's easy to talk to and I've been seeing her 4 years. I want her to help me so I keep tellings her about my feelings for her though we've been working on a lot of other issues too.

Originally Posted by Restin

What's way-over-the-top-weird is how Transference love can warp what T looks like. Talk about blind! I had such a childish view of my T that it took two years to notice that she is half as tall as I am and only a few years younger.

Thanks. Yes, it's weird isn't it!

[iheartjacques]

I wouldn't worry about the confusion. Let the feelings be. I trust my GP and T more than my husband. I know I'm paying them to care about my physical and mental health, but when they are totally focused on your wellbeing, it's a good support to have in a world where most people only care about themselves and their own feelings.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I thought my own thread might help me. I don't understand if you can be physically attracted and sexually aroused by a T but not think about doing anything with her. That's how I feel. I don't know why Tthinks I am bisexual. I want the romance and to feel good but I haven't had a satisfying sex life in marriage. I feel like I missed out! I don't care if it's a man or a woman who can give me those excited feelings but I don't think I'd want to reciprocate with a woman.

I feel so mixed up. I don't think I'm normal; I didn't handle growing up well at all but now it's too late. Sex and my body are icky.

Hi Rainbow. I'm not sure I follow what issue confuses you, or maybe it's all of them, but I hope this helps...

I understand where you're coming from. Even though I've never had a female T I felt close to, I was once experiencing very similar feelings for a close friend who was an older lesbian that was kind of counseling me through some stuff. No, I don't think it means you are bisexual. I can really identify with this comment you made "I don't care if it's a man or a woman who can give me those excited feelings but I don't think I'd want to reciprocate with a woman." Outside of the one situation I've never felt anything for a woman, and I've never felt "in love" with a woman, and like you my fantasies weren't explicit. I think this scenario (which from what I've read is very common) is where we are just "confused" into thinking we want someone sexually when really we want them to fill our unmet childhood needs, and since we cant get new parents, it means they would need to fit the role of a lover to meet these needs for us... so our mind unconsciously does this work for us to make them lover potential. I have read in several places that hetero women can and commonly do have sexual feelings for their female T's. I think the lack of explicit homoerotic fantasy on your part, not wanting to reciprocate, and the fact the only female you've been interested in was a T, all point to that being the case.

Now, if I read this right and your T is trying to say you are bisexual, I hate to say it but your T is just not well educated in this area. I would send her a link to a Google search on the subject, LOL. I could see you being confused if she is telling you this.

[rainbow8]

Thank you, Petra. I'm trying to find a good article that explains it but I can't. If you find one, I'd appreciate if you post the link.

It does bother me that my T is suggesting that I could be bisexual. She doesn't see anything wrong with that. I keep telling her that I don't have those feelings for other women and that I don't want to have sex with her.

The confusing part is feeling like I'm in love with her and that leads to physical arousal. I don't feel that with my H.
I want to make it clear to her that it's the intimacy causing this. Yet I'm attracted to the way she looks too. So is that the transference? I feel close to her and it seems like love and sex desires are triggered. It's her but it's not her. It's what I wish I had but I know she's not the one to give me that.

I don't think I'm as confused as I am frustrated. I want my T to understand me, and I also wish my H had been the one to be who my T is for me.

[Two89w]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I thought my own thread might help me. I don't understand if you can be physically attracted and sexually aroused by a T but not think about doing anything with her. That's how I feel. I don't know why Tthinks I am bisexual. I want the romance and to feel good but I haven't had a satisfying sex life in marriage. I feel like I missed out! I don't care if it's a man or a woman who can give me those excited feelings but I don't think I'd want to reciprocate with a woman.

I feel so mixed up. I don't think I'm normal; I didn't handle growing up well at all but now it's too late. Sex and my body are icky.

Google Sexuality and Love written by Dr Raymond Richmond PHD, it's a great read , it won't take you long.

[Aloneandafraid]

Oh Rainbow. I so understand what you have written. It is such a painful/raw emotion and so difficult to begin to explain. Well done for writing about it. I am afraid I don't have any good advice but I want you to know that I relate to every word you have written and to the brilliant replies you have received. This is really painful for me. Although I hate that you are suffering it gives me hope that I am not totally alone with these feelings. thank you for this thread.

The same parts of the brain and chemical reactions involved in mother love are the exact ones that are involved in sexual feelings. In my opinion only, I believe that these sexual feelings for your Therapist, Rainbow, are a heck of a lot easier for you to wonder around in and deal with than accepting the fact that you did not get what you needed from Mom/Dad — most likely Mom was the culprit — which is a safe and secure foundation. There was no safe harbor for you, and this continued to exist in therapy, because of your therapist changing her techniques and telling you about them, as opposed to integrating them quietly with her other techniques . If you noticed then it would be right for her to tell you what she was doing.

These sexual feelings for your therapist have nothing to do with your identifying as gay, straight or whatever, Rainbow. This is my opinion only. For me, when we (my therapist and I) fixed the kid stuff I had nowhere to go with my feelings after that, so I thought. In my mind, and from PC I thought the next step had to be sexual feelings for her. I was wrong. I was lucky because my therapist didn't say I was bad or wrong to have these thoughts. She wanted me to let them be, and explore them. I did, and it led me to a clear understanding of where my sexual identify is at this time and has always been. I do recognize that sexuality is fluid, especially for woman. Also, and Most Important, She Did Not Take any Physical Touch Away From Me. hSe wanted me to embrace my feelings, and wade through them, see where they lead me, with the clear message,"It is Her Responsibility as my Therapist, not mine, To Hold The Therapeutic Boundary! and, I trusted her to, and she did.

I remember in one of your post that you were trying to comfort your grandchild, and you were crying. If I remember correctly you felt it was working for your gran, yet, I believe if the child had words he/she would have said, "No way, Granma! You are making as anxious as the dickens." Could this have been what it was like for you?

Please know Rainbow that I respond to your thread with love only, and that it is just my opinion.

PS: I use the word *culprit* hoping it will jog you into your unconscious, not to demean your mom.

Best wishes, Rainbow!

ETA: Today I was surprised to find out I was still a part of PC.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Thank you, Petra. I'm trying to find a good article that explains it but I can't. If you find one, I'd appreciate if you post the link.

I found some articles... I know there are a lot more because I've read about this multiple times but anyways here's a couple:

"The erotic transference can occur regardless of the client's and therapist's gender or sexual orientation. That means that a heterosexual woman can develop an erotic transference for a heterosexual female therapist, even if this client never had erotic or romantic feelings for women in the past. It can also occur with a heterosexual man and a gay therapist, even if the client never had sexual or romantic feelings for gay men before. A gay male client can develop an erotic transference for a heterosexual female therapist. And so on. This can be very confusing for clients and, at times, causes them to question their sexual orientation. But, most often, especially if they're not having these romantic and sexual feelings outside of treatment, it's not about a change in their sexual orientation. It's usually about unmet childhood needs and, as an adult, these needs can be transformed into romantic and/or sexual feelings for the therapist."
- See more at: Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist: Hypnosis, EMDR, Somatic Experiencing: Psychotherapy and the Erotic Transference: Falling "In Love" With Your Psychotherapist

"It’s what Sigmund Freud called transference love which is not about sexual feelings but rather the more ubiquitous sensual fantasies of merging, enmeshing and being engulfed in the mother/child symbiotic relationship. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a male or female therapist, whether your therapist is fat or thin, attractive or has a face like a smacked bum, or whether or not you (or they) are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual; these transference fantasies always come from the same deep primitive place – your parents and the way they related to you as a child.

Transference love is crucial to the therapeutic process. It allows the patient to explore all manner of parental feelings in a safe, trusting and respectful environment."
- Unrequited Transference ? Eight Ways to Know You are in Love with your Therapist | Therapy Unplugged

[EnormousCabbage]

rainbow8, there is an article you might find interesting by Lisa M Diamond PhD, called "What does sexual orientation orient? A biobehavioural model distinguishing romantic love and sexual desire".

I can't link to it as my post count is not high enough, sorry, but if you search for that exact title it should come up, or also look for Lisa M Diamond at the University of Utah.

[rainbow8]

It was hard for me to get back to this thread. It's embarrassing, and triggers my feelings about my last sesssion, but here I am again!

Originally Posted by Two89w

Google Sexuality and Love written by Dr Raymond Richmond PHD, it's a great read , it won't take you long.

Thank you. I read it, but maybe I read the long version as it was a little hard to understand but definitely interesting!

Originally Posted by Aloneandafraid

Oh Rainbow. I so understand what you have written. It is such a painful/raw emotion and so difficult to begin to explain. Well done for writing about it. I am afraid I don't have any good advice but I want you to know that I relate to every word you have written and to the brilliant replies you have received. This is really painful for me. Although I hate that you are suffering it gives me hope that I am not totally alone with these feelings. thank you for this thread.

Thank you. I'm sorry you're going through the same thing. I just read that you said your T is away for 8 weeks!!! I don't think I could manage that.

GTGT: You're not anonymous to me! I'm going to type in bold after your comments:

Originally Posted by Anonymous35535

The same parts of the brain and chemical reactions involved in mother love are the exact ones that are involved in sexual feelings. In my opinion only, I believe that these sexual feelings for your Therapist, Rainbow, are a heck of a lot easier for you to wonder around in and deal with than accepting the fact that you did not get what you needed from Mom/Dad — most likely Mom was the culprit — which is a safe and secure foundation. I don't find the feelings easy at all! I DO accept that my Mom didn't give me a secure foundation, but not that she did that purposely. She was there for me, loved me, and in no way abused me. She always wanted the best for me, and was a good mother. There was no safe harbor for you, and this continued to exist in therapy, because of your therapist changing her techniques and telling you about them, as opposed to integrating them quietly with her other techniques . If you noticed then it would be right for her to tell you what she was doing.
I don't understand what you mean. How could I not know we stopped EMDR when she learned SE? She told me it was better for me. If you mean about holding my hand, she admitted that it was a mistake to stop, and not to explain why she stopped when she did.
These sexual feelings for your therapist have nothing to do with your identifying as gay, straight or whatever, Rainbow. This is my opinion only. For me, when we (my therapist and I) fixed the kid stuff I had nowhere to go with my feelings after that, so I thought. In my mind, and from PC I thought the next step had to be sexual feelings for her. I was wrong. I was lucky because my therapist didn't say I was bad or wrong to have these thoughts. I'm glad your T was so understanding. Mine is the same way.She wanted me to let them be, and explore them. I did, and it led me to a clear understanding of where my sexual identify is at this time and has always been. I do recognize that sexuality is fluid, especially for woman. Also, and Most Important, She Did Not Take any Physical Touch Away From Me. hSe wanted me to embrace my feelings, and wade through them, see where they lead me, with the clear message,"It is Her Responsibility as my Therapist, not mine, To Hold The Therapeutic Boundary! and, I trusted her to, and she did. My T made a mistake in not telling me that holding my hand was triggering her. She admitted that to me. Yes, I wish she hadn't taken it away but I managed all right anyway. She says I don't have to ask any more. She won't take it away again, and I trust her.

I remember in one of your post that you were trying to comfort your grandchild, and you were crying. If I remember correctly you felt it was working for your gran, yet, I believe if the child had words he/she would have said, "No way, Granma! You are making as anxious as the dickens." Could this have been what it was like for you?
Maybe. My Mom was anxious so I internalized that. My T's touch is totally calming for me. I don't remember feeling that in my life.
Please know Rainbow that I respond to your thread with love only, and that it is just my opinion. I know that, and I appreciate your post. I hope you are going to continue to post here.

PS: I use the word *culprit* hoping it will jog you into your unconscious, not to demean your mom. Thank you. I appreciate that, for my Mom was the nicest person, and well-liked by everyone, including me.

Best wishes, Rainbow!

ETA: Today I was surprised to find out I was still a part of PC.

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I found some articles... I know there are a lot more because I've read about this multiple times but anyways here's a couple:

"The erotic transference can occur regardless of the client's and therapist's gender or sexual orientation. That means that a heterosexual woman can develop an erotic transference for a heterosexual female therapist, even if this client never had erotic or romantic feelings for women in the past. It can also occur with a heterosexual man and a gay therapist, even if the client never had sexual or romantic feelings for gay men before. A gay male client can develop an erotic transference for a heterosexual female therapist. And so on. This can be very confusing for clients and, at times, causes them to question their sexual orientation. But, most often, especially if they're not having these romantic and sexual feelings outside of treatment, it's not about a change in their sexual orientation. It's usually about unmet childhood needs and, as an adult, these needs can be transformed into romantic and/or sexual feelings for the therapist."
- See more at: Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist: Hypnosis, EMDR, Somatic Experiencing: Psychotherapy and the Erotic Transference: Falling "In Love" With Your Psychotherapist

"It’s what Sigmund Freud called transference love which is not about sexual feelings but rather the more ubiquitous sensual fantasies of merging, enmeshing and being engulfed in the mother/child symbiotic relationship. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a male or female therapist, whether your therapist is fat or thin, attractive or has a face like a smacked bum, or whether or not you (or they) are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual; these transference fantasies always come from the same deep primitive place – your parents and the way they related to you as a child.

Transference love is crucial to the therapeutic process. It allows the patient to explore all manner of parental feelings in a safe, trusting and respectful environment."
- Unrequited Transference ? Eight Ways to Know You are in Love with your Therapist | Therapy Unplugged

Thanks so much, Petra. I sent part of it to my T. Do social workers NOT learn about erotic transference????? Or, maybe my T just wants me to be open to the possibility that I could be bisexual, and if I were, it wouldn't be so terrible.

Originally Posted by EnormousCabbage

rainbow8, there is an article you might find interesting by Lisa M Diamond PhD, called "What does sexual orientation orient? A biobehavioural model distinguishing romantic love and sexual desire".

I can't link to it as my post count is not high enough, sorry, but if you search for that exact title it should come up, or also look for Lisa M Diamond at the University of Utah.

I'm going to look for it. Thank you!

[growlycat]

No need to be embarrassed!! So many of us struggle with similar issues. I admire that you are able to tell your T about it. So far with me not so much.