[ramonajones]

I recently started talking about my transference for my therapist on this thread here: http://forums.psychcentral.com/roman...ease-help.html

but I don't feel like I was totally honest about how deep my obsession with him goes. I totally cyberstalked him, found his wife's Facebook page, and have been ogling the public pics and videos of him with his wife and family for over a year now. I will literally never ever EVER tell him this. Ever. I feel like a complete psycho. I did tell him that I had feelings/an attraction to him, but since I've done that I've found it extremely difficult to talk to him and have been considering ending therapy altogether because I've felt totally stuck and unable to talk for weeks. He's very kind and lovely, but I've been wondering if my attachment to him is pathological. I've felt unable to share the real problems/issues from my life with him, and I don't know if it has to do with a transference that needs to be worked out or because I'm obsessed with him and just keep showing up at the sessions so I can be near him. I feel like I can't tell him any of this and that I've already revealed more than I'm comfortable with by telling him that I have an emotional and physical attraction to him.

I don't know what to do. He has been with me through some very hard times, but I'm wondering if seeing him is counterproductive because of my attraction to him?

[Ididitmyway]

I can relate to such intense transference that goes to the level of obsession and the so-called cyber-stalking. Been there, done that. From my experience, I can say the following.

First off, you are not really stalking him because you are not interacting either with him or those related to him through social media websites. Googling public pictures and staring at them is not illegal so you have nothing to be ashamed of. Is this obsession a problem? Yes, I believe it is. I am one of those who don't believe in the possibility of turning transference into a healing experience. But, again, under the circumstances your behavior is natural and understandable and is nothing to be ashamed of.

I do understand, however, why you don't want to discuss it with your therapist. I am not going to give any suggestion one way or another. It's a deeply personal choice of whether to bring it up with him or not. All I can say is that the fear of bringing this up with him is legitimate and should be respected IMO. On the other hand, it creates an impasse in therapy where you are in the position when you can't discuss something very important with your therapist, something so important that it has become an obsession. Then therapy ceases to be real because you'll be talking about anything except the thing that bothers you the most.

Is this situation counterproductive? Yes. At the same time, such strong attraction doesn't go away simply because we understand intellectually that it's counter-productive. The only way to get unstuck, as I see it, is to tell your therapist that you are unable to discuss your real life issues with him and, hopefully, something good will come out of that discussion. You don't have to tell him about your so-called cyber-stalking, just about how you are unable to discuss with him what needs to be discussed. If this conversation doesn't create any break-through for you, that would be the time to talk to him about how helpful therapy is for you at this point. If those discussions turn out as a disappointment, or if you get hurt as a result, it's for the best because it'd make it easier for you to leave.

[runlola72]

I completely empathize with you, RJ. It's a tough situation to be in and one that is sort of familiar to me. Before I even found this T, while I was searching for one, I cyberstalked many T's, and ruled some out based on what I found. For instance, one person had multiple negative reviews they had posted on FB about various local restaurants or businesses, with zero positive reviews. This told me a lot about this T's general nature, and I wanted someone with a more positive outlook. In contrast, I found several positive reviews my current T posted about hotels/restaurants etc., and I immediately felt that he was a person who wanted other people to do well. . I also saw a FB pic of his online that looked like a pic from a wedding, with him and his (daughter?), and he was beaming. 10 points from me instantly. To me, this cyberstalking is oddly acceptable.

Other online ventures were less acceptable. After I started with him, he had mentioned something briefly that made me realize he had some religious affiliation and I became instantly paranoid that he might be anti-LGBT, as part of my story includes some sexual fluidity as well as a child who is gender non-conforming. Against my better judgment, I went online again and began searching deeper, somehow convinced that I would find news articles with pics of him at anti_LGBT rallies or something else equally improbable. But it is very important to me that I not be stuck in therapy and grow attached to someone who is secretly thinking I am a pervert or a bad parent or something. I went online, and quite easily found a page that linked me to his children (grown) and I actually saw their pictures, and incredibly was able to deduce (from some text) that one of his kids is actually gay. I completely crossed the line, feel really guilty about it, BUT was able to lay my worry aside, because I truly believe that he is a good parent, and must be accepting of his own child, even if it went against religious beliefs he may or may not hold. Since that period of time (months ago) I have inferred from a few of his comments that LGBT issues may in fact be something he struggles in accepting, but that he acknowledges we are all likely on a spectrum of sexuality, so I view him as a person who is *trying*....(he is certainly not bigot material)...and I am at peace with that.

As far as current cyber-stalking, mostly now I just look at his picture (an object permanence thing?) or look at his website to see if there is any new material posted. This feels slightly OCD to me in that the compulsion to see his face or know if there is new material, feels overwhelming. Twice, several months ago, I looked on social media sites that show pics of his grown kids, who happen to display way too much info publicly, imho. I honestly don't know why I did it. It likely has a lot to do with me feeling disconnected from everyone and the internet has become a way for me to feel some semblance of virtual connection, like reading a good book. So I've stitched this story together in my head about what a wonderful father T is, and part of my transference is paternal, so I guess I just wanted to feel closer to the story I've conjured.

I realize this doesn't have a lot to do with romantic attraction (though I do experience a waxing and waning ET with T, as well) but I wanted you to feel less alone in the obsessiveness. I don't think it's that uncommon. In the last few months I have been trying to forgive myself for having looked where I ought not to have. Like you, I would have great trepidation about bringing any of this up in session, because in my case, I feel quite sure it would mean him showing me the door. I like Ididitmyway's suggestion of just bringing up the fact that you feel you can't talk about certain things. The cyberstalking bit is likely unnecessary and might just make him uncomfortable. Certainly therapists must know the huge potential for clients to look them up, explore their fb profiles. Many of us in therapy have poor boundaries, for a variety of reasons, and they must know this.

Also, is this your first T that you have felt this way about? For me, it's my second. The first was female. I knew as soon as I met current T that I was going to be in heavy paternal and/or ET transference eventually with him, and I was right. Based on my previous experience I saw all the signs. Somehow, knowing this is a "thing" for me, makes it more about *me* and less about my T. I'm sure he's a wonderful dad and a great husband, but this desire in me could be happening with any number of people. He just happened to fit the basic profile, and take my insurance. So if you see this pattern in yourself as well, try taking a step back from it and perhaps explore (in generalities) in session why someone like you would have these feelings, and how to wean yourself from these obsessive feelings.

((HUGS)) to you.

[ramonajones]

Thank you both so much for responding to this. TRULY. I desperately needed to talk about this, but then I was afraid to come back and look at these responses because I thought for sure that it would be people saying that I'm a complete psychopath and should be locked away--or that I'm a terrible creepy person for looking at these photos/videos. I definitely feel like a creep about it. I first saw them about a year ago, then looked at them ALL the time, then I stopped looking at them for about 6 or 7 months and then started again.

Ididitmyway: You have COMPLETELY hit the nail on the head when it comes to the impasse I'm at with my therapist. I'm completely unable to talk about anything with him at this point, because what I really need to talk about is this obsession with him. I did send him an email a couple of weeks ago admitting to the attraction, but we have barely talked about it since then. We've talked about it a little bit, but I think he wants me to feel "in control" of the situation, so he's letting me take the lead and decide when to talk about it, except I'm too scared to take the lead. But you're right. Now I'm completely stuck and unable to talk about anything that I really need to talk about.

I just sent him an email today saying that perhaps after this week I should take a few weeks off from therapy and reevaluate what kind of help I need from him.

I really appreciate these responses and feel a lot less like a freak. Thank you guys so much.

If you are a creep, many/most of us are creeps!

Been there, done that with all of my therapists. It wouldn't happen if the relationship was in any way 'normal', since I'm not in the habit of doing this with other types of people. They create a mystique that I become desperate to tear down (I.e. Discover that they are just people too.)

[UglyDucky]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

I recently started talking about my transference for my therapist on this thread here: http://forums.psychcentral.com/roman...ease-help.html

but I don't feel like I was totally honest about how deep my obsession with him goes. I totally cyberstalked him, found his wife's Facebook page, and have been ogling the public pics and videos of him with his wife and family for over a year now. I will literally never ever EVER tell him this. Ever. I feel like a complete psycho. I did tell him that I had feelings/an attraction to him, but since I've done that I've found it extremely difficult to talk to him and have been considering ending therapy altogether because I've felt totally stuck and unable to talk for weeks. He's very kind and lovely, but I've been wondering if my attachment to him is pathological. I've felt unable to share the real problems/issues from my life with him, and I don't know if it has to do with a transference that needs to be worked out or because I'm obsessed with him and just keep showing up at the sessions so I can be near him. I feel like I can't tell him any of this and that I've already revealed more than I'm comfortable with by telling him that I have an emotional and physical attraction to him.

I don't know what to do. He has been with me through some very hard times, but I'm wondering if seeing him is counterproductive because of my attraction to him?

I'm by no means an expert on erotic or romantic feelings toward one's T, but I have read some opinions written by Ts re: what is probably going on. What you feel is part of the therapy relationship. New Ts are frequently discombobulated by admissions of attraction from the client and may not deal with the situation in the best possible manner. More experienced Ts are able to see the erotic/romantic feelings as something the client and T should work on in therapy - these feelings may be signs of other issues you may be having in relationships, etc.

This is just me...you must make your own decision. Talking about such feelings with the person you are attracted to is terribly difficult. On the other hand, if your T has gotten you through tough times in the past, don't you think he will understand your feelings and be able to get you through this situation? (You won't be the first who's had these feelings for him and you won't be the last) The feelings you have about your T are not just your issue...perhaps you could give him a chance to address what you feel and give him the opportunity to help you discover what's driving those feelings? This same situation is coming up in my therapy as I'm becoming aware of erotic feelings for my T. Again, this is my choice and you have to do what's right for you. But, I can't imagine NOT talking to my T about how I feel.

Good luck.

[susan900]

Hi RamonaJones,

Just been reading your post and some replies.. I understand what your going through, as I has similar experience with therapy.. I been seeing my therapist over one year now, for my Ocd. He been really caring, and wanting me to get better.. And last few weeks I had strong feelings for him.. I been crying alot .. I phoned him last week, as I was thinking he was cross at me a couple of sessions ago.. he said to me if I was cross at you, you wouldn't be here! Anyway.. Itold him on phone, that I care alot what he thinks about me.. and when I saw him next session, I said I feel some like.. Attachment to him... He just listened and didn't say anything. but therapy will end for 3 reasons.. when he said this I felt so upset. I feel I want him to be my friend after therapy finishes. I am so sad.. hate being like this.. I also did something stupid. when he wouldn't call me back (cos he was busy) Isent him a facebook message! saying sorry but I wanted to talk to you, but you not called me back, etc.. when I saw therapist, he didn't say anything about my facebook message, so I don't know if he got that facebook message.. I am seeing him this week.. and feel like its hard to tell him how I feel. As its emarrassing! My daughters, where not happy that I send my therapist a message on facebook.

Please don't feel bad about checking our your therapist on videos etc.. I know what its like.. Maybe you had hard time as A child, and that's why this Attachment happens, to you.. I think that's what is happening with me.. cos few years, ago, I felt like this too,, Attachement to therapist. Wishing you best of luck.. Please try talk to your therapist. about how you feel.. we should be able to talk to them about anything.

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by susan900

Hi RamonaJones,

Just been reading your post and some replies.. I understand what your going through, as I has similar experience with therapy.. I been seeing my therapist over one year now, for my Ocd. He been really caring, and wanting me to get better.. And last few weeks I had strong feelings for him.. I been crying alot .. I phoned him last week, as I was thinking he was cross at me a couple of sessions ago.. he said to me if I was cross at you, you wouldn't be here! Anyway.. Itold him on phone, that I care alot what he thinks about me.. and when I saw him next session, I said I feel some like.. Attachment to him... He just listened and didn't say anything. but therapy will end for 3 reasons.. when he said this I felt so upset. I feel I want him to be my friend after therapy finishes. I am so sad.. hate being like this.. I also did something stupid. when he wouldn't call me back (cos he was busy) Isent him a facebook message! saying sorry but I wanted to talk to you, but you not called me back, etc.. when I saw therapist, he didn't say anything about my facebook message, so I don't know if he got that facebook message.. I am seeing him this week.. and feel like its hard to tell him how I feel. As its emarrassing! My daughters, where not happy that I send my therapist a message on facebook.

Please don't feel bad about checking our your therapist on videos etc.. I know what its like.. Maybe you had hard time as A child, and that's why this Attachment happens, to you.. I think that's what is happening with me.. cos few years, ago, I felt like this too,, Attachement to therapist. Wishing you best of luck.. Please try talk to your therapist. about how you feel.. we should be able to talk to them about anything.

Thanks for writing back Susan. You said that your therapist said that the therapy was going to end for three reasons? Are you not going to see him anymore? What are the reasons?

I emailed my T over the weekend telling him that I'm so frustrated about not being able to share things with him that maybe I should take a few weeks off of therapy. He wrote back that while that is one option, maybe I could try writing down all the things I don't feel able to say to him and the reasons I can't say them and then I can choose whether or not I want to share them with him, and if not, at least I'll have the reasons clarified for myself.

The things I can't share with him are basically just specifics of my attraction to him, and also the fact that I've gone to another therapist he doesn't know about as well as a hypnotherapist in the hopes of getting some relief--I don't want to tell him about either of those because I'm afraid it will irritate him.

I guess if I could really truly talk freely with him, I'd want to tell him that I think about him all the time and wish that I could spend more time with him. I wish that I could know him in real life and be close to him. I would tell him that I want to be liked by him and that I would love to have his respect. I would tell him that I wish he could give me some guidance on what to do next with my life. And then, of course, the specifics of my attraction to him as well.

[susan900]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

Thanks for writing back Susan. You said that your therapist said that the therapy was going to end for three reasons? Are you not going to see him anymore? What are the reasons?

I emailed my T over the weekend telling him that I'm so frustrated about not being able to share things with him that maybe I should take a few weeks off of therapy. He wrote back that while that is one option, maybe I could try writing down all the things I don't feel able to say to him and the reasons I can't say them and then I can choose whether or not I want to share them with him, and if not, at least I'll have the reasons clarified for myself.

The things I can't share with him are basically just specifics of my attraction to him, and also the fact that I've gone to another therapist he doesn't know about as well as a hypnotherapist in the hopes of getting some relief--I don't want to tell him about either of those because I'm afraid it will irritate him.

I guess if I could really truly talk freely with him, I'd want to tell him that I think about him all the time and wish that I could spend more time with him. I wish that I could know him in real life and be close to him. I would tell him that I want to be liked by him and that I would love to have his respect. I would tell him that I wish he could give me some guidance on what to do next with my life. And then, of course, the specifics of my attraction to him as well.

Hi Again, maybe having few weeks out, may help to sort stuff out. I dont remember what 3 reasons my therapist gave.. one was if your not doing the therapy, I guess! I am off to see him today, and feel how can I explain to him that he has been on my mind all week, without looking like a fool. Also that I am trying my best to face my ocd. but i can only go at my own pace.. I think Ramona, after reading this message above,that, you will work out what is best for you. . Best of luck..

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

He wrote back that while that is one option, maybe I could try writing down all the things I don't feel able to say to him and the reasons I can't say them and then I can choose whether or not I want to share them with him, and if not, at least I'll have the reasons clarified for myself.

I really like his reponse.

Originally Posted by ramonajones

The things I can't share with him are basically just specifics of my attraction to him, and also the fact that I've gone to another therapist he doesn't know about as well as a hypnotherapist in the hopes of getting some relief--I don't want to tell him about either of those because I'm afraid it will irritate him.

I have been less hesitant than you to tell my T about the specifics of my attraction. But, I have not been able to tell him some of the specifics of ``stalking" him online. For example, at some point, I found his profile on a dating website. I told him about it (long and complicated story which I recount in older posts). But I could not tell him that even though I do not use the site anymore since I started dating my current BF, I still log in to see if he is there. I have made my peace with this. I realize I am doing something a little pathological, but I've told myself the specifics do not matter. It is enough for me to tell him I am feeling obssesed with him when I check there too frequently.

Originally Posted by ramonajones

I guess if I could really truly talk freely with him, I'd want to tell him that I think about him all the time and wish that I could spend more time with him. I wish that I could know him in real life and be close to him. I would tell him that I want to be liked by him and that I would love to have his respect. I would tell him that I wish he could give me some guidance on what to do next with my life. And then, of course, the specifics of my attraction to him as well.

These are exactly the things that I said to my T. he was very receptive and understanding, not in an overblown way as he is quite understated, but in a way that made me believe he understood. I think if you were to say or write these things to him, he would ask you about your need to be liked and respected by him, and this might be worth thinking about on your own.

I enjoyed this process in spite of the pain of the transference feelings for him. I learnt more about myself and my drives. I don't know if I became happier, but I do feel stronger - maybe less at the mercy or my emotions and other peoples emotions.

Good luck, and be well.

[susan900]

Hi frackfrackfrack, I think what you say is true.. I want to be liked by my therapist. and I want him to respect me, maybe he already does! hope so.

[BudFox]

There are a few things about these scenarios that I find troubling:

- If the client has childhood attachment trauma/wounding, it's possible what's happening with the T is a reawakening of that wounding. The T is an idealized caregiver, the client wants proximity to them, can't have it, so they resort to googling, obsessing, emailing, etc. This experience can be inherently retraumatizing for some, it seems.

- If the client does not recognize this, and the T does not either, the client will feel ashamed and guilty, even though they are possibly responding to unbearable traumatic flashbacks and physical sensations and deep longings.

- Some Ts will respond to such obsessiveness or infatuation as behavioral problems that must be "corrected" with boundary setting, instead of understanding the root.

I started a thread a few days ago about this:
http://forums.psychcentral.com/psych...nt-trauma.html

I am in an obsessive hell with my ex T, and I get how terrible this can be. Has ruined me.

[ramonajones]

Wow Bud, reading your thread now and really relate about the obsessive thoughts and desperate need for proximity. I pretty much talk to my T in my head ALL day long. Pretty much every move I make, I think about what he would think of it if he saw me doing it. He's with me all the time--I guess that's because I want him to be with me all the time. I don't know if it's healthy or not? Is this a healing or a further wounding? I would really like to talk to T about it in these terms--and be really open about how much I think about him every day. I'm keeping a running list of things that I'm afraid to tell him and said that I may bring some of them in to him from time to time. I feel so incredibly awkward about all of this.

[ramonajones]

Ugh. I wish I could just stop going to my guy. It's clearly not a productive relationship. I just spend all week longing to be close to him. He hasn't really been able to help my but I'm so attached to him that I just can't let go.