[precaryous]

I wrote PrevT:

Me to PrevT
I told you this-
...I can't deal with the plumber coming again tomorrow Because I am overwrought and exhausted and at the end of my rope, crying all the time. I screamed while driving all the way to T's-
"NOOO! You're wrong, T!" (You are wrong to ask me to come to session)
I literally did.

I told T about it. She asked me then why did I come to our appointment?
I told her, because I trusted her...there must be a reason she said, "Come." I told her I want to trust her.

Maybe sometime in the future she may say, Pre, we really need to think about going impatient hospital. I told her I may not agree or see the need for it. I may argue with you...but if you tell me, "go," I want to trust that you understand things that I can't. I want to trust that you see things I can't see."

But I didn't tell you her (T's) reply-
She told me i should have turned around and went home and called her and explained. In the future she wants me to follow my instincts and not come to therapy if I feel that strongly about it. She never wants me to do something I don't want to do just because she says so.

PrevT replied:
"Completely agree!!"
---

How can I EVER trust my instincts again after all the devastatingly bad choices I have made!

[unaluna]

This is exactly why i am so proud of my zero to one hundred rule. I do not go to t if the wind chill or heat index exceeds 0-100F. Its MY decision. Based on my almost passing out from heat stroke a few years ago, and also telling myself, its okay to not want to freeze my nostrils.

Its kinda ridiculous that we werent supported in learning to make decisions, but i distinctly remember having these conversations with my parents. I think their reasoning was, if i never learned to make a decision, then i wouldnt mind always deferring to my husband. Unfortunately, homegirl dont play that!

[atisketatasket]

But were your instincts the reason for your choices?

Your first instinct was not to go, your choice was to trust your therapist instead of yourself. Maybe you should trust you first.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

But were your instincts the reason for your choices?

Your first instinct was not to go, your choice was to trust your therapist instead of yourself. Maybe you should trust you first.

You ask a hard question. This is why parents should not force (or deprive) food on their children. It overrides their first instincts.

[precaryous]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

But were your instincts the reason for your choices?

Your first instinct was not to go, your choice was to trust your therapist instead of yourself. Maybe you should trust you first.

I hadn't realized I haven't been trusting my own opinion until T brought it up. But when I've trusted my instincts I've made such bad decisions.

I haven't trusted my own instincts for some time!
I need a lightbulb emoji.

[atisketatasket]

Pre - what I was trying to say was, your instincts in the case with your t were overriden by your attitude towards her. My sense of your ex-psychiatrist is similar - you trusted him and not necessarily yourself.

I think what the therapist was saying is that your instincts should not be superseded by your opinions about other people. Sometimes you will have to go to an appointment you don't want to go to, but if you do it should be for you and not for anyone else involved or because of how you feel towards them.

I think (not sure, per usual) that what una was saying is that kids naturally stop eating when they're no longer hungry, not when they're full or still hungry. So when parents interfere with that dynamic, they mess up the child's natural instinct. It's still there, but the child now trusts the parent's instinct, not their own. (Am I right, una? )

You trusted your therapist's instinct, not yours, and you made your choice on the basis of that; that's what she doesn't want you to do. If you have made bad choices, it may not be because you have bad instincts. It may be because you follow other people's instincts instead.

[Ididitmyway]

I think, instincts are often confused with desires but those are distinctly different things. When our desires are not in alignment with our instincts that could lead to making bad choices. Therefore, the main task is to be able to separate instinct from desire and to recognize what is what. This is the task of a lifetime I'd say and this is a huge subject to delve into.

By the way, I'd also make a distinction between instinct and intuition. People use those words interchangeably but those are different concepts. Instinct is more immediate, more in the moment kind of thing. It quickly assesses the reality of the situation at the moment and makes an immediate decision about the best course of action. This is the feeling of "knowing" something specific about the situation that is very important to know to make the right decision in the moment. Intuition is more strategic, it is more about seeing the bigger picture or something operating behind the scenes with the long-term potential. It is aimed at solving bigger life problems and dilemmas that are not immediate and have continuity.

The example of instinct could be "knowing" how to respond to a specific message and the example of intuition could be "knowing" how to deal with the person who sent the message in general. The both come from our "higher consciousness" which always serves our best interests. Our desires on the other hand don't always serve our best interests. Desires are easy to hear and to follow because they are very loud and very demanding. Instincts and intuition are not easy to hear because their voice is very quite. In order to hear that inner voice one has to be able to quite their mind chatter though which the desires speak.

It's very easy to say to someone "trust your instincts" when the person may not even be aware of what their instincts are because they've never had an opportunity to connect with them.

[precaryous]

Thank you for your thoughts. You all make interesting points. I need to think about them. It's 2:00am here- I'll grab some sleep and reply later today.

[precaryous]

"If you have made bad choices, it may not be because you have bad instincts. It may be because you follow other people's instincts instead."

You're probably right! I think I've always done this to an extent, now that I think about it.

[precaryous]

"It's very easy to say to someone "trust your instincts" when the person may not even be aware of what their instincts are because they've never had an opportunity to connect with them."

Thanks for this. I've never thought about the differences between instinct vs. intuition and how desires may interfere.

"Instincts and intuition are not easy to hear because their voice is very quite. In order to hear that inner voice one has to be able to quite their mind chatter though which the desires speak."

Describes me perfectly.

[precaryous]

The issue that has grabbed my attention isn't so much the single incident of me going to therapy when my mind was screaming at me that I should stay home. I'm bothered more that I did something just because T said so. I'm bothered more that after all I've been through with exploitive T's, that I so easily disregarded my best interest.

[precaryous]

Someone suggested-

Maybe think about why you went...only to please her?

-It might please her...but that's not the only reason
-Going along is easier than fighting/disputing or standing my ground
-I had showered, changed and went through the struggle of getting ready to go anyway.
-Sometimes I trust other people's judgement over my own
- Getting along in my house, the youngest of five people, it was easier to go along and do what other people wanted. It was how I coped.

I'm still working on this list.

I never want to be exploited by ANYONE ever again. Going to session just because T said so- it's a wake up call for me.

Here I am advising other people not to let themselves be exploited...who am I to say anything?

[unaluna]

My gf who is a t told me her grandson (at like age 3 or 4 maybe?) was eating potato chips with his grampa, when grampa tried to start telling the little boy how many chips he could have. The grandson said, "grampa, youre the boss of EVERYTHING here (my friends house), but I'M the boss of the potato chips!"

We just never had our "boss of the potato chips" moment. That changes your whole worldview. Your sense of agency. It was never encouraged in us. Sports helps, this kid was kicking around a ball as soon as he could walk.

[precaryous]

"We just never had our "boss of the potato chips" moment. That changes your whole worldview. Your sense of agency. It was never encouraged in us. Sports helps, this kid was kicking around a ball as soon as he could walk."

Thanks for this. That must be a huge part of it. You're right, we must have been raised similarly. I wasn't the boss of much growing up. I don't know why I've accepted letting other people decide things for me after that. I'll have to work this out.

The turning point for me, I think, was dropping out of nursing school. I did well in class but I lived in the dorm and I couldn't handle it emotionally. I think I could have been independent if I had graduated. I have rarely felt I've been in a position of power.
Having lots of thoughts around this.