If suicidal posts are prohibited, why are they permitted to remain? i noticed in the depression forum a "gentle reminder" that suicidal posts aren't permitted yet there is one. It's very disturbing. i don't like the powerlessness it invokes nor the resulting anxiety. i want this person to get help and feel supported but it's not a position any of us should be put in. Thank you.

[(JD)]

Hi Meso. This just my thinking, but I do think it's determined by the way it's phrased?

There are many suicidal members here at any one time. To post anything to denote active ideation and possible attempts is not allowed, as it does trigger others and we can't do anything directly for the member in crisis. They need to call their therapist or emergency workers or go to the ER.

However, feeling depressed enough to feel like dying, and posting for support to get through the lousy feelings is another matter. That's what PC is all about: support when you most need it.

I hope I showed the difference.

Yes, i do get that. i suppose the post i'm referencing without naming names is a bit vague and, again, i want people to get the support they need. It's just that, in this case, it's not "i feel this way", it uses words that sound more final. Anyway, i appreciate the input, thanks muchly.

[Christina86]

Just for future reference:

If you EVER see a post that you think may be against guidelines, or you find offensive or is a member in clear crisis - PLEASE click the "report post" button found on all posts. That way all of the members of the Community Team are informed and can act. Otherwise, please PM an online moderator or administrator with your concerns and a direct link to the post in question.

If there aren't any of the Community Team online, feel free to PM me or whomever you're most comfortable with on the team and we'll deal with it as soon as we can.

Thank you for caring about another person's well-being.

Have a good day!!

Thanks very much. It didn't occur to me to use the report post option. i should have done that so that the person in question could perhaps get quicker support. Man, i hope i didn't mess up in that regard. i think i dissociated and froze a bit...i know i spaced out quite a bit trying to figure out what to say, do, think, feel. i guess i'm doing my best here just as everyone else here. Thanks again!

[susan888]

MeSo, I love your tagline. I have lived a lie for so many years. You are so brave! You inspire me to do better. Thanks! Susan

[Yoda]

I have a question about Psychcentral policy and rather than start a new thread I thought it might fit well with the discussion already in progress.

I don't really understand why messages containing suicidal thoughts or suicidal actions are not allowed but messages about cutting and self mutilation is okay.

Obviously if somebody is thinking seriously about suicide it can upset other people but if I am hurting so badly that I am considering suicide then maybe sharing my thoughts could help me get help before it is too late.

For the record I am not suicidal today but I have been in the past and made one attempt twenty years ago. I would like to think that if I were suicidal again that I could share my desperation but that is not allowed here.

I just don't understand why we have a forum dedicated to discussing self harm but discussing the ultimate self harm, suicide, is banned.

[confuzzed]

I think the issue in question is triggering.
Sometimes when people read about suicide it might trigger thoughts of their own and unfortunately action on said thoughts.
While I understand talking something out sometimes helps people, I think the intent here is for those who are really in a bad way they need to be encouraged to find local tangible support to help prevent any actions rather than just typing away and getting themselves more emotionally "bound up".
Does this make sense?
do I have it right?
And does anyone have any comments on what I've said?
Please let me know if I'm
"confuzzed"
about all this....

[pegasus]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I have a question about Psychcentral policy and rather than start a new thread I thought it might fit well with the discussion already in progress.

I don't really understand why messages containing suicidal thoughts or suicidal actions are not allowed but messages about cutting and self mutilation is okay.

Obviously if somebody is thinking seriously about suicide it can upset other people but if I am hurting so badly that I am considering suicide then maybe sharing my thoughts could help me get help before it is too late.

For the record I am not suicidal today but I have been in the past and made one attempt twenty years ago. I would like to think that if I were suicidal again that I could share my desperation but that is not allowed here.

I just don't understand why we have a forum dedicated to discussing self harm but discussing the ultimate self harm, suicide, is banned.

((((((((((( Yoda ))))))))))))

Can you not see how distressing it would be if members were allowed to do suicide posts and then went ahead and did it and died? We are not in a position to help someone in that sort of distress. It's not really possible to stop someone from committing suicide on the internet. Someone who is suicidal needs (irl) immediate care and attention. Psych Central is a wonderful support site but it is not a hospital.

[sabby]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I have a question about Psychcentral policy and rather than start a new thread I thought it might fit well with the discussion already in progress.

I don't really understand why messages containing suicidal thoughts or suicidal actions are not allowed but messages about cutting and self mutilation is okay.

Obviously if somebody is thinking seriously about suicide it can upset other people but if I am hurting so badly that I am considering suicide then maybe sharing my thoughts could help me get help before it is too late.

For the record I am not suicidal today but I have been in the past and made one attempt twenty years ago. I would like to think that if I were suicidal again that I could share my desperation but that is not allowed here.

I just don't understand why we have a forum dedicated to discussing self harm but discussing the ultimate self harm, suicide, is banned.

Hey Yoda,

I'll try to explain it for you and hopefully my words will make sense.

Cutting and self mutilation are far from the ultimate of taking ones' own life. There is a big difference there.

We do have members here that are feeling suicidal at any given time. If they post that they are feeling that way and what emotions they are going through at the time and looking for support, that is one thing. For a member to post that I'm going to do it xxx and this is how I will do it.....that is against our guidelines.

Our guideline states -

Inappropriate Content

• Messages containing suicidal threats or suicidal actions

A threat would be along the lines of "I'm done, tonight's the night" or "Goodbye cruel world, I won't be back PC".

If you are discussing that you are wondering why you should continue....that leaves the door open for conversation and support. See the difference?

I hope what I have said has helped.....feel free to pm if you have further questions ok?


sabby

[Pup]

Yet self harming threads are just as triggering, and can actually lead to accidental death.

I think we should be allowed to express how we feel, whether that's suicidal, sad, depressed, lonely, triggered, hurting, suffering, happiness, etc.

Being heard is important and being less alone and feeling related to is important, too.

But yeah.
It's doubtful the rule will be changed.

[Catherine2]

Originally Posted by Pupp

Yet self harming threads are just as triggering, and can actually lead to accidental death.

I think we should be allowed to express how we feel, whether that's suicidal, sad, depressed, lonely, triggered, hurting, suffering, happiness, etc.

Being heard is important and being less alone and feeling related to is important, too.
But yeah.
It's doubtful the rule will be changed.

Jmo...
There is obviously a big difference in an accidental death and a planned one.
Struggling with SI is absolutely dangerous, and much support and understanding is given. It can give the poster time to think before acting, or seek medical help if they have already SId and it's serious.
There is a chance to prevent, to guide and direct someone.

With suicidal posts, there is nothing anyone here can do.
Oh wait, there is...we can worry and weep and wonder if that person did it.
Sharing feelings of despair and needing comfort is vastly different from an announcement of "here I go..."
What the heck can anyone do with that kind of post??
Nothing.

I have seen it happen on another forum where someone will post about their detailed plans on their final exit. Nothing is heard from them despite pleas to get help, numbers for the Hot Lines, numerous offers of personal phone calls...

There is a void, but there is also a question of whether that person was serious and did it; or was it an attention getter.
Crap like that stirs up a lot of guilt, fear, and sadness from those who tried to help.

There has to be some kind of boundary about these things.

Sharing most feelings and reaching out for help has never been discouraged here at PC.

For the protection of the community as a whole, yeah, it's been asked that members do not make suicidal posts.

Jmo, of course

Catherine

[deliquesce]

that was a really helpful clarification, sabby, thank you. do you think that bit you quoted could be put in the depression forums instead of the current message? or maybe a link to that quote? because i have been reading it like meso - that suicidal content is inappropriate, not just threats/plans.

[Pup]

Whether an "attention getter" or seriously considering, they should be heard and supported.

I've tried to attempt suicide more than 30+, I've just lost count now, times in my life, since age 9, through to last year in December, almost succeeding many times, I think people do understand suicidal idealization, suicidal feelings, suicidal thoughts, as well as SI/SH. I just think people should be heard and should say how they feel/what they are thinking for a chance to open the door to help/being supported.

But I know this one opinion won't matter to change a rule like that. Just my opinion, and that's it. Cheers.

[sabby]

Originally Posted by Pupp

Whether an "attention getter" or seriously considering, they should be heard and supported.

I just think people should be heard and should say how they feel/what they are thinking for a chance to open the door to help/being supported.

But I know this one opinion won't matter to change a rule like that. Just my opinion, and that's it. Cheers.

I agree with you that people deserve to be heard Pupp....most definitely. Thank you for your input

While we have a lot of leeway to speak our minds here, there are some things that we just cannot help members with, and that is real life, real time assistance to a member who is actively suicidal. This needs to be dealt with between a member and a professional who can help and treat immediately for that member's safety. DocJohn created this guideline to help keep our community safe and to aid those who are suicidal to look IRL for support and help.

Many members have suicidal ideation every single day. It's not against guidelines to discuss that one is feeling like this, and as long as there is no plan or discussion of how they would accomplish it, one can reach out for support and help.

Pupp, if you feel really strongly about your thoughts on this, you are more than welcome to pm DocJohn and let him know. I can't speak for him as to if he would or would not change this guideline, that's up to him.


sabby

[Fuzzybear]

Thanks sabby, I also agree that people deserve to be heard.

[marvin_pa]

I too wondered about this when I first signed up - I did think to myself that even talking about contemplating suicide could be conceived as a threat & would therefore be inappropriate & unwelcome. I do fully understand the reasoning for the rule & sabby's clarifications make absolute sense to me.

I did wonder if the resources links under the depression forum & maybe a link back to the appropriate section of the main site's Resources pages, might be duplicated somewhere on the main forum index page - just so they're more immediately available for somebody in crisis? (My reasoning for that, is that when I visit the site, the main forum index is nearly always the 1st page I hit.)

[HelgaDE]

I thought I'd join in on the discussion.

I agree 100% to what Pupp is asking for.

When I start having thoughts of the terrible S word the very last place that I would want to go to during that period of time is to a hospital. The best thing that I need is for someone or a group of people willing to listen to what I have to say and to allow me to vent my feelings without fearing of being incarcerated for a period of time. I don't want to be viewed as a crazed suicidal person and to be pumped up with drugs when all I need is for someone to listen to me.

[Greenleaves]

I agree with Helga. Suicidal people need help, they need a caring person to listen to them. Is that more likely in a hospital or with friends? I know for sure friends just talking to someone can and does save lives.

We can do more than we think.

[sabby]

I'm in total agreement that a person who is on the edge and really contemplating, needs to have the opportunity to talk, be heard and work through it, if at all possible.

But there is a difference between ideation and being on the edge. There has to be a line drawn somewhere in an online community such as PC. Unfortunately, we cannot be everything to everybody. First and foremost PC supplies us with a place to talk, make connections and provide all members with valuable information and a level of safety that is so very important in continuing the mission of this site.

I hope you can all understand that the guideline in place is not meant to stifle any of us it is meant to keep the community safe and to help guide us in the direction that may need to be taken.

Much love and respect,

sabby

[Catherine2]

Perhaps I need to clarify my feelings on this...

In no way do I feel that sharing that we feel suicidal, wonder if we are ever going to get better, losing hope, and needing someone to listen, help, and offer encouragement should be disallowed...folks with these feelings need reassurance and our love.

Making a post with a definite time and method is not the same thing.
It can cause panic and frantic efforts to dissuade someone from doing it. Sometimes it may help, unless that person responds with a positive No, I won't do it this time how are we to know if they did it?

What about the fear and feelings of helplessness generated in the community?
Sharing our feelings is absolutely necessary for us to get caring and support from others.
Posting a time with details?

It's been pointed out several times that we need people in our real lives to help us.

PC is an adjunct support system.
Resources are posted for help IRL if someone does not have access to their own professionals...

Please, let's not confuse sharing feelings as opposed to telling an exact time and method...

Catherine

I added the trigger icon because I'm nearly 100% certain that someone will get very angry because I do see a difference in these two things.

just thought i'd throw my $0.02 into the ring too...

i get suicidal often due to a history of...geez well everything...it doesn't really matter. i hesitate to share that with my friends and such on the site because of many reasons.

1. i have my t to call...thats what she is there for...thats what i pay her for...and if i can't reach her then i can call my regular family doc .

2. i have friends irl (which makes on line friends sound wrong somehow) who i could call..altho it would panic them to know end.

3. i could call a crisis line which would panic me.

4. i could go to the hospital which i have done. see above and also do i want the extended stay at chez bin?

probably the main reason i don't post here (when i am in that spot) is that i am aware that like me i am conscious that many others have diagnosisis (? that ain't spelled right) and my post will upset them. plus for as much mental health treatment i have had in my life...i am not a counselor, or a trained professional...some whom post here are, i am not...there are just some instances where responding to a post where my input might not be the best thing. when i am in that scary a place i want, no need my help to come from people who are trained professionals (sorry i know i just smashed some toes but its true)...my life depends on it.

and the same is true...when i am that vulnerable a triggered response by someone is not what i need. it might be harmful.

i actually like the no suicidal post thingie...it forces me to look for and use my other resources...like reaching out to my t. its easy for me to hide from her when i am in pain...and i fear i would do just that if i could just post here.

honestly if there was a place to talk about it i would be afraid there might get into a well i have done this and this a # of times kind of thing...i'm very open about my attempts if asked but i don't feel proud about them...the pain that caused them is still around and so is the struggle.

i do thing there should be a seperate catregory listed right up with the others (like depression, bipolar, etc) suicide: resouces, #,s , etc. everything you need in case of an emergency. and it should be kept updated and current and non judgemental.

well maybe is used a few more cents...sorry bout that.

stumpy
who is having a pretty good day

[phoenix7]

its a fine line....

I agree that people with suicidal ideations should post for support as everyone has mentioned here and have done so myself in the past. Thats the its all tooo much why go on feelings......

Posting that you are going to Su is a different matter - to feeling su.

I agree if you are feeling su that support here can help

if you feel you ARE going to Su then help irl is what you need - family friends professionals anyone who is around that can help you - a real hug is much better than a virtual one no matter how well meant. I fi could reach through the screen and hold your hands and take away whatever you were going to use I would - but I cant and I want everyone to be safe.

anyway thats how i feel - I hope everyone who needs help gets it

be safe be happy be well

P7

[(JD)]

Coming from a professional thought... not everyone here knows how to help talk someone through these very strong emotions/feelings to end their life. Some might say something in full support and end up making the other person's feelings being minimized and more desperate. What I would suggest is that in any case where someone is talking along these lines, whether you think they might only need "talking" please have them call their doctor, Pdoc, therapist or ER while you wait in the chat room (or on PM for them.)

Psych Central just doesn't have the capability of determining who is really in crisis and who needs to just talk a bit...nor does it have any way to notify authorities in the event of a real threat. That's good in many ways one being it allows members to not fear for "just talking." But when someone comes from a community that might have those assets, and expect someone here to call help for them, that could be disastrous, you know? So my POV is to ask each one to call their T...and then come back and chat with you while they wait for the return call.

[Greenleaves]

That's a really good idea Sky. Thanks.