RE: suicidal posts

I am still trying to process my thoughts about posting suicidal ideation.

But for the moment another thought running through my head...

What if a person is having homicidal thoughts?

What then? I have no intent today but always thought if I only had six months to live I would pursue this. My psychiatrist knows already about my feelings.

again its just thoughts - if you had a plan it would be different

I hope you are feeling better now

Yoda, that would likely fall under these two points of the "Inappropriate Content" section in the Community Guidelines

My .02....

Here is the thing. There are two points to consider.

one being that like Sky mentioned, not everyone who is on here is going to know the right way(and that depends totally on the person in my veiw) to talk someone down. Things can easily be said and taken out of context, be triggering, just not wanted, ect.. It happens.. and this doesnt mean anyone is wrong! We cannot possibly know what everyone needs all the time.. even that is tough for a professional.

The second thing is how much potential "triggering" could happen if someone came on, was actively suicidal, said they were going to do it, then dissapeared and never posted again. Did they do it? We wouldn't know.. some people would likely feel responsible, some would just be triggered.. heck, i mean it just would be very scary I think.

And heck there is a third thing too.. those who are suicidal DESERVE the VERY BEST PROFESSIONAL CARE - and unfortunately, as Sabby mentioned, we cannot all do that for everyone. As i said even a professional would have a hard time doing and being everything for everyone all of the time.

I think that NOONE should ever have to suffer with suicidal ideation all alone. It takes a big network to change that mood and mindset, and its all well deserved.

the last time I felt even slightly suicidal.. I called my aunt, and i took me to the hospital. I saw the on duty psych, i wasnt kept, he changed my medication and i felt better. But the thing is, I knew although i could come here and say "Im having suicidal thoughts" I personally wouldnt want to come on and say "im going to commit suicide" because I know for a fact if something DID happen and i didnt offer myself that very good care, so many people WOULD feel badly, triggered, etc etc.

I know all of this sounds like im putting the suicidal thinker down. And I am NOT in any way meaning to do that. The core of how i feel is that although getting support for your feelings is good here, if you are suicidal, you need AND deserve professionals to step in and guide you out of that action or mindset. Again, i truly feel so badly for ANYONE in that place.. if you have been there, or even if you know someone who has, you know it is a nightmare and a very dark place.

I hope this is all coming across right.

Okay thanks, Christina, for clarifying this. I was just wondering "what if" , ya know?

I just wanted to say....

I have full respect for the rules of PC and I understand why they are in place. I think the site works pretty well with the rules and guidelines that are enforced....

However, I do not believe that having, mentioning, or discussing having suicidal or homicidal thoughts automatically means that you are condoning illegal acts...nor does it (or should it) put you into the category of pedophile, rapist...etc, etc!!! That idea, to me, is ridiculous.

I have had homicidal thoughts against my abusers and have shared that in therapy before. They are just thoughts!!! Just because I am hurt and angry enough to want to kill, does not mean I advocate killing or any other type of violence for that matter. A thought does not a murderer make!! It is how one responds or reacts to those thoughts that would make them a murderer. Homicidal/Suicidal thoughts are just that....thoughts...and as long as one can keep them in check, take responsibility for themselves and the well being of others, and get help if things start to come undone...I don't think we should push people out for this. If that's to be the case...I better log off now and never return.

And as far as these thoughts placing me or anyone else in the category of pedophiles, rapists, and murders.....I just have one thing to say about that....

WHATEVER!!!!!!!

I am willing to consider that I may have misunderstood the meaning behind Christina's recent post. If I did, Christina, I apologize!!!

Elysium, good point.

I don't know where it would stand actually, mostly done on a case-by-case basis.

Maybe _sabby_ is a better speaker than I am. Sometimes I can unfortunately have rather black/white thinking, my apologies.

Apology not necessary...you didn't offend!! It is a bit of an disgruntled day for me. One of my insiders is up in arms.

I get black and white thinking too. It's hard cause it's difficult to see it sometimes.

I think you are a fine speaker!! And I think it is great that you share your views!!

Take care!!!

((((( Elysium )))))

The specific guideline that Christina mentioned is about illegal acts that should not be discussed here at PC. They are definitely issues that should be discussed with a professional. Because of the nature of these acts, there are way too many members here who would be triggered and scared. We try to our best to create a safe atmosphere for all members.

Unfortunately, we cannot be everything to everybody. I'm sorry if you feel these guidelines are upsetting to you. While you feel that what you have are just "thoughts" and you would never act on them (which by the way I'm glad to hear that), not everyone who has these kinds of thoughts is able to stop themselves from acting upon them. For the greater good of the community as a whole, we do have to draw the line somewhere.


sabby

Sabby....

This is not an attack on anyones views, or the guidelines....but I come to this site for support, which is what it is for. If I have some thoughts or feelings that I need to express and I feel they may trigger others, I will always ask first if it is okay to speak of such things as to not trigger others. Most importantly I will first and foremost discuss them with my T. I think in this way, it gives people here the choice and opportunity to practice their own self care....and learning good self care does take a lot of practice.

If I ever felt that someone was too vulnerable for a certain topic...I would not bring it up.

The guidelines do not upset me. I understand why they are in place, but I personally draw my line to the left of censorship.

I'm sorry if this upset anyone. I spent my whole life in a situation where I was told how I should feel, when I should feel, and what I was and wasn't allowed to feel. I spent the better part of my life keeping my mouth shut because the more I tried to speak up, the more I was told my perceptions were wrong and the worse things would get. I realize this is a completely different situation now, but when I feel like others are trying to stifle me in some way, the memories of all of that can come back and start to boil over.

Ultimately, I agree that if a person is having these thoughts or feelings the first people they should be speaking with are their T's and that people need to be mindful of not triggering others. But if it's all the same....as long as someone is being mindful and respectful of others feelings, and all parties involved are agreeable to the conversation, I don't see why it should even be an issue.......

I would just like to add this if it is okay?.... but what about those of us that have no help yet?.... I still have three months to go before I even get to see anyone.... I get those thoughts all the time and need to talk about it, if not I would surely do it.... I feel the exact same way as Elysium on this subject, I also was controlled on what I was allowed to think, say, or do.... isn't this what the Trigger icon is for?.... if it is used then people have a choice to read it or not, we're here for support and if we can't get it then what good is this place?.... If I'm feeling like I want to off myself then I want help and support which everyone gives greatly here.... the last thing I want is to feel like I'm going to do it and have to keep my mouth shut about it.... that is just so stupid.... I mean, what a great feeling that would be to know that someone that needed the help died because of censorship *rolls eyes* when they could have been helped and talked out of it.... You say, talk to your T first then post here if needed, but.... If I feel like ending it I just can't say I'll wait till whenever to talk to a T.... even though I don't have one, but I want the help as soon as i can get it and that help comes from the other caring members that understand what you are going through.

I'm sorry if I was confusing at all here, I'm half asleep but felt I needed to say something.

The rules we have here at PC are absolutely spot on. The rules have been in place for a long time, tried and tested to keep the whole forum safe. I really appreciate this.

We are allowed to say how we feel but not to post threats, actual time etc. It is fine for someone to say that they feel they are on the edge and need extra support. It is fine to say you really feel like killing your abuser but not to post when and how you would go about it.

Looking at it from someone reading, (an example) I read that one of my best friends here is about to kill themselves. Their post tells me how and when they are going to do it, and then they disappear! None of us are in a position to zip in the car to that persons house. And what if someone posts they are going to go and kill someone? You see, there is nothing any of us could do to stop that person. This is the internet and all I can see is that these sort of posts would create fear, guilt and severe distress.

Anyone who is truly suicidal or about to harm another human being needs to get immediate help from someone in real life.

May I ask a Q ?

What if...... In the support chat room someone tells you they have taken an over dose ? I know we should inform admin but what if admin takes ages to come to us ? What do we say to the person after we have told them the usual that they must call emergency service straight away.

I have been in this situation and had to wait a fair while for help to come and I really didnt know what to say for the best.

I have come across some posts with the titles suicide, suicidal ideation, suicidal...etc. Some of them do have a trigger icon beside the title. I would appreciate if members would use a less triggering word or phrase other than the ones that I have mentioned. Even with the trigger icon beside the title...it is still triggering. And with the Internet it is easy to search for trained mental health professionals in your city/country that are better able to help you if you are suicidal or having suicidal ideations. It is even as simple as going to the front of most phone books and calling a crisis network phone number...etc.

I've come across them, too.

I'd also like to say that those type of thoughts(rapist/murder thoughts) can also occur in someone who suffers with OCD(Like I do), and they can occur for many reasons, but it does not mean that one will act on them = which will then make them a rapist/murderer/etc.

Nothing personal or disrespectful here but I don't know what words to substitute for suicidal. Sometimes I am dense so please forgive my ignorance.

I have tried to seek help when I have felt suicidal but for me it was not simple nor effective.

An example - in 1989 I had postpartum depression and called my gyn/ob doc and told him I was severely depressed. His response - drink a beer. Seriously, that is the advice he gave me. Two days after I called him I attempted suicide but it failed.

In 2007 I was very manic for a few days and then within several hours my mood went from flying high to rock bottom. I called my psychiatrist's office and then went to his office to wait until he could work me in. After waiting awhile his office worker told me to go home and he would call me later that evening. He never called. The next day I returned to his office and they said he would not be in the office that day. I felt abandoned. So I bought some orange juice and vodka and started drinking which was a part of my suicide plan. I was then in progress toward my suicide since I mattered to nobody. I decided to see if my therapist was in the office since her office was en route to my suicide destination and if she was not there then that would just be one more sign that I should end it all. But she was in and she sent me to an emergency dept nearby and I was admitted.

Although I was a member of PC I knew I could not post about my intent. I felt totally alone and my mood was grim. Personally I think if somebody is that far down they need support anywhere they can find it. I know others disagree and that is fine but I wish PC could be part of my support network if I am suicidal again. Surely I could find better advice here than a doc telling me to drink a beer.

These are my thoughts and I respect that others here will disagree with me.

Just a thought, but I know there are self-help forums out there for those who are suicidal, who DO allow discussion. I remember one specifically but do not remember the name of it. You might google for something like that though.

Just because we cannot allow it here doesn't make it inherently "wrong". Its just that we are not set up to take care of something like that in these parts.

www.suicideforum.com is good.
& www.recoveryourlife.com/forum too.

Thanks all for your thoughtful comments and questions about suicide and related topics. These are not things we've taken lightly, but it is primarily a question of helping keep community members safe -- both those who are considering suicide and everyone else who may be triggered by specific method talk. Being online in a good support group can be of great help to someone who is suicidal, which we recognize. And as long as the talk is just about the general thoughts and such that a person is experiencing about suicide, that's fine.

We draw the line in posts that say they are going to die tonight, or tomorrow, or whatever, and this is how. That's not what we're setup here to do or to help with. Throughout the world, there are suicidal helplines (click the button on our homepage to find one near you), and we recommend members make use of these free resources. Online there are other groups where such discussion is allowed (but we don't vouch for those groups, nor what you may find there).

As for homicidal ideation about wanting to kill one's abuser, I fairly certain we've allowed such discussions, as long as they are fairly limited and well defined, because they fall into the same category about thoughts. Each case is different however. And so while we may allow such discussion about wanting to end the life of one's abuser, we wouldn't allow discussion about someone wanted to end the life of a person for some other reason. We have to balance individual member's needs versus those of the entire community, and so we usually have a discussion about such threads as they arise and make decisions on a case by case basis.

DocJohn

hi docjohn,

thanks for clarifying & explaining your thoughts behind the community guidelines.

in the depression forum there is a reminder saying "no suicidal posts" (or something to that effect) - i was wondering if it might be possible to add a link next to it to this post of yours (or maybe add it to the suicide resources stick you already have there)? it might clarify that suicidal thoughts are ok, but that talk of intent/method is not. and also provide a useful reminder that there are suicide helplines one can contact in crisis also.

just a suggestion .

Hey Tishie - in that situation, please PM an administrator with a copy of the chat (if you don't know how to do that, I can tell you). Please also do tell the person that they MUST call emergency services right away. If they don't choose to do that - here's a good page on our website you can give to them: http://psychcentral.com/helpme.htm

Please do take a look at the "Who's Online" list at that time and see if a moderator/administrator is online and PM them asking them to help. (Even though I've received PMs after I disappeared offline and still appeared "online").

Beyond that you do NOT have to put yourself into a situation you're not comfortable with. You are more than allowed to put another member on "ignore" if you're in that situation. It can be really triggering and upsetting dealing with someone who is suicidal.

We are not equipped, nor trained to deal with someone in that sort of a crisis so please only help out as much as you can.

I had this situation where a guy in chat was talking about killing himself that night. I was trying to be supportive, but got frantic when he signed off with grim words. I actually managed to FIND THE GUY & CALL HIM AT HOME. (I also notified an admin. here at PC). This guy when he answered the phone was quite jovial. I asked for the guy who had posted by name & he said it was him. I expressed my deep concern about what he had been saying & can you believe it, this guy was laughing & having a party! He had just written this stuff & then forgot about it & went on in a happy-go-lucky way.

I was frantic & spent a lot of time worrying until I could locate him.

Those kind of posts definitely shouldn't be here. Talking about thoughts or previous experiences is one thing, but when you are posting like it is imminent is totally irresponsible & scary to those who read it.

Thankfully, he didn't seriously mean what he posted, but I didn't know that! It was awful to go through that experience as my mother did commit suicide & I've had attempts of my own & am working so hard to never do that kind of thing again & I certainly can't ignore a post like that.

((((((trying & caring))))))

i'm so sorry you had to go through such a frightening experience. you did the right thing in notifying admin, and you are such a caring person for finding this person's number to call and check up on him. it touches me so much that we have people on PC who would do that for a stranger they've spoken to over the net.

just a suggestion (should it ever happen again - here or elsewhere on the web, which i sincerely hope it won't) - is that you call the police/emergency services in your area and turn the chat transcripts over to them. they will have the resources to track the poster down, assess them and provide support if it is required.

it is a difficult balance between being someone who is concerned and desperately wants to help, and also knowing that you need to look after yourself. i used to volunteer for a suicide crisis line (phone & online) and this is what we would do (try to talk the person out of those thoughts, but once it became apparent that the threat was immediate - refer on to emergency services who had better and more appropriate services & personnel to deal with an critical situation like that). there was a case recently where someone in america made a report about someone they were concerned about, and it became an international thing - i think they were able to find & help the girl involved in time, but i can't remember the details of which countries were involved or anything.

Would it be helpful to have a forum for survivors of loved ones that have committed suicide? Maybe when we get over the top we could look at the aftermath and rethink??

Personally, I would like to see that on PC being a survivor of a parental suicide. jmo...

My sister killed herself and my parents killed themselves 15 years later. It's been 10 years but it continues to weigh so heavily on my heart and soul.

I an so sorry for your loss. I hope we can keep in touch...it would be so helpful to have someone who's "been there" to talk with. I find that so many others are "fascinated" by the situation that they don't hear my pain.

Ho, ho, ho...happy holidays

~ Melanie