RE: suicidal posts

Perhaps I need to clarify my feelings on this...

In no way do I feel that sharing that we feel suicidal, wonder if we are ever going to get better, losing hope, and needing someone to listen, help, and offer encouragement should be disallowed...folks with these feelings need reassurance and our love.

Making a post with a definite time and method is not the same thing.
It can cause panic and frantic efforts to dissuade someone from doing it. Sometimes it may help, unless that person responds with a positive No, I won't do it this time how are we to know if they did it?

What about the fear and feelings of helplessness generated in the community?
Sharing our feelings is absolutely necessary for us to get caring and support from others.
Posting a time with details?

It's been pointed out several times that we need people in our real lives to help us.

PC is an adjunct support system.
Resources are posted for help IRL if someone does not have access to their own professionals...

Please, let's not confuse sharing feelings as opposed to telling an exact time and method...

Catherine

I added the trigger icon because I'm nearly 100% certain that someone will get very angry because I do see a difference in these two things.

just thought i'd throw my $0.02 into the ring too...

i get suicidal often due to a history of...geez well everything...it doesn't really matter. i hesitate to share that with my friends and such on the site because of many reasons.

1. i have my t to call...thats what she is there for...thats what i pay her for...and if i can't reach her then i can call my regular family doc .

2. i have friends irl (which makes on line friends sound wrong somehow) who i could call..altho it would panic them to know end.

3. i could call a crisis line which would panic me.

4. i could go to the hospital which i have done. see above and also do i want the extended stay at chez bin?

probably the main reason i don't post here (when i am in that spot) is that i am aware that like me i am conscious that many others have diagnosisis (? that ain't spelled right) and my post will upset them. plus for as much mental health treatment i have had in my life...i am not a counselor, or a trained professional...some whom post here are, i am not...there are just some instances where responding to a post where my input might not be the best thing. when i am in that scary a place i want, no need my help to come from people who are trained professionals (sorry i know i just smashed some toes but its true)...my life depends on it.

and the same is true...when i am that vulnerable a triggered response by someone is not what i need. it might be harmful.

i actually like the no suicidal post thingie...it forces me to look for and use my other resources...like reaching out to my t. its easy for me to hide from her when i am in pain...and i fear i would do just that if i could just post here.

honestly if there was a place to talk about it i would be afraid there might get into a well i have done this and this a # of times kind of thing...i'm very open about my attempts if asked but i don't feel proud about them...the pain that caused them is still around and so is the struggle.

i do thing there should be a seperate catregory listed right up with the others (like depression, bipolar, etc) suicide: resouces, #,s , etc. everything you need in case of an emergency. and it should be kept updated and current and non judgemental.

well maybe is used a few more cents...sorry bout that.

stumpy
who is having a pretty good day

its a fine line....

I agree that people with suicidal ideations should post for support as everyone has mentioned here and have done so myself in the past. Thats the its all tooo much why go on feelings......

Posting that you are going to Su is a different matter - to feeling su.

I agree if you are feeling su that support here can help

if you feel you ARE going to Su then help irl is what you need - family friends professionals anyone who is around that can help you - a real hug is much better than a virtual one no matter how well meant. I fi could reach through the screen and hold your hands and take away whatever you were going to use I would - but I cant and I want everyone to be safe.

anyway thats how i feel - I hope everyone who needs help gets it

be safe be happy be well

P7

Coming from a professional thought... not everyone here knows how to help talk someone through these very strong emotions/feelings to end their life. Some might say something in full support and end up making the other person's feelings being minimized and more desperate. What I would suggest is that in any case where someone is talking along these lines, whether you think they might only need "talking" please have them call their doctor, Pdoc, therapist or ER while you wait in the chat room (or on PM for them.)

Psych Central just doesn't have the capability of determining who is really in crisis and who needs to just talk a bit...nor does it have any way to notify authorities in the event of a real threat. That's good in many ways one being it allows members to not fear for "just talking." But when someone comes from a community that might have those assets, and expect someone here to call help for them, that could be disastrous, you know? So my POV is to ask each one to call their T...and then come back and chat with you while they wait for the return call.

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That's a really good idea Sky. Thanks.

I am still trying to process my thoughts about posting suicidal ideation.

But for the moment another thought running through my head...

What if a person is having homicidal thoughts?

What then? I have no intent today but always thought if I only had six months to live I would pursue this. My psychiatrist knows already about my feelings.

again its just thoughts - if you had a plan it would be different

I hope you are feeling better now

Yoda, that would likely fall under these two points of the "Inappropriate Content" section in the Community Guidelines

My .02....

Here is the thing. There are two points to consider.

one being that like Sky mentioned, not everyone who is on here is going to know the right way(and that depends totally on the person in my veiw) to talk someone down. Things can easily be said and taken out of context, be triggering, just not wanted, ect.. It happens.. and this doesnt mean anyone is wrong! We cannot possibly know what everyone needs all the time.. even that is tough for a professional.

The second thing is how much potential "triggering" could happen if someone came on, was actively suicidal, said they were going to do it, then dissapeared and never posted again. Did they do it? We wouldn't know.. some people would likely feel responsible, some would just be triggered.. heck, i mean it just would be very scary I think.

And heck there is a third thing too.. those who are suicidal DESERVE the VERY BEST PROFESSIONAL CARE - and unfortunately, as Sabby mentioned, we cannot all do that for everyone. As i said even a professional would have a hard time doing and being everything for everyone all of the time.

I think that NOONE should ever have to suffer with suicidal ideation all alone. It takes a big network to change that mood and mindset, and its all well deserved.

the last time I felt even slightly suicidal.. I called my aunt, and i took me to the hospital. I saw the on duty psych, i wasnt kept, he changed my medication and i felt better. But the thing is, I knew although i could come here and say "Im having suicidal thoughts" I personally wouldnt want to come on and say "im going to commit suicide" because I know for a fact if something DID happen and i didnt offer myself that very good care, so many people WOULD feel badly, triggered, etc etc.

I know all of this sounds like im putting the suicidal thinker down. And I am NOT in any way meaning to do that. The core of how i feel is that although getting support for your feelings is good here, if you are suicidal, you need AND deserve professionals to step in and guide you out of that action or mindset. Again, i truly feel so badly for ANYONE in that place.. if you have been there, or even if you know someone who has, you know it is a nightmare and a very dark place.

I hope this is all coming across right.

Okay thanks, Christina, for clarifying this. I was just wondering "what if" , ya know?

I just wanted to say....

I have full respect for the rules of PC and I understand why they are in place. I think the site works pretty well with the rules and guidelines that are enforced....

However, I do not believe that having, mentioning, or discussing having suicidal or homicidal thoughts automatically means that you are condoning illegal acts...nor does it (or should it) put you into the category of pedophile, rapist...etc, etc!!! That idea, to me, is ridiculous.

I have had homicidal thoughts against my abusers and have shared that in therapy before. They are just thoughts!!! Just because I am hurt and angry enough to want to kill, does not mean I advocate killing or any other type of violence for that matter. A thought does not a murderer make!! It is how one responds or reacts to those thoughts that would make them a murderer. Homicidal/Suicidal thoughts are just that....thoughts...and as long as one can keep them in check, take responsibility for themselves and the well being of others, and get help if things start to come undone...I don't think we should push people out for this. If that's to be the case...I better log off now and never return.

And as far as these thoughts placing me or anyone else in the category of pedophiles, rapists, and murders.....I just have one thing to say about that....

WHATEVER!!!!!!!

I am willing to consider that I may have misunderstood the meaning behind Christina's recent post. If I did, Christina, I apologize!!!

Elysium, good point.

I don't know where it would stand actually, mostly done on a case-by-case basis.

Maybe _sabby_ is a better speaker than I am. Sometimes I can unfortunately have rather black/white thinking, my apologies.

Apology not necessary...you didn't offend!! It is a bit of an disgruntled day for me. One of my insiders is up in arms.

I get black and white thinking too. It's hard cause it's difficult to see it sometimes.

I think you are a fine speaker!! And I think it is great that you share your views!!

Take care!!!

((((( Elysium )))))

The specific guideline that Christina mentioned is about illegal acts that should not be discussed here at PC. They are definitely issues that should be discussed with a professional. Because of the nature of these acts, there are way too many members here who would be triggered and scared. We try to our best to create a safe atmosphere for all members.

Unfortunately, we cannot be everything to everybody. I'm sorry if you feel these guidelines are upsetting to you. While you feel that what you have are just "thoughts" and you would never act on them (which by the way I'm glad to hear that), not everyone who has these kinds of thoughts is able to stop themselves from acting upon them. For the greater good of the community as a whole, we do have to draw the line somewhere.


sabby

Sabby....

This is not an attack on anyones views, or the guidelines....but I come to this site for support, which is what it is for. If I have some thoughts or feelings that I need to express and I feel they may trigger others, I will always ask first if it is okay to speak of such things as to not trigger others. Most importantly I will first and foremost discuss them with my T. I think in this way, it gives people here the choice and opportunity to practice their own self care....and learning good self care does take a lot of practice.

If I ever felt that someone was too vulnerable for a certain topic...I would not bring it up.

The guidelines do not upset me. I understand why they are in place, but I personally draw my line to the left of censorship.

I'm sorry if this upset anyone. I spent my whole life in a situation where I was told how I should feel, when I should feel, and what I was and wasn't allowed to feel. I spent the better part of my life keeping my mouth shut because the more I tried to speak up, the more I was told my perceptions were wrong and the worse things would get. I realize this is a completely different situation now, but when I feel like others are trying to stifle me in some way, the memories of all of that can come back and start to boil over.

Ultimately, I agree that if a person is having these thoughts or feelings the first people they should be speaking with are their T's and that people need to be mindful of not triggering others. But if it's all the same....as long as someone is being mindful and respectful of others feelings, and all parties involved are agreeable to the conversation, I don't see why it should even be an issue.......

I would just like to add this if it is okay?.... but what about those of us that have no help yet?.... I still have three months to go before I even get to see anyone.... I get those thoughts all the time and need to talk about it, if not I would surely do it.... I feel the exact same way as Elysium on this subject, I also was controlled on what I was allowed to think, say, or do.... isn't this what the Trigger icon is for?.... if it is used then people have a choice to read it or not, we're here for support and if we can't get it then what good is this place?.... If I'm feeling like I want to off myself then I want help and support which everyone gives greatly here.... the last thing I want is to feel like I'm going to do it and have to keep my mouth shut about it.... that is just so stupid.... I mean, what a great feeling that would be to know that someone that needed the help died because of censorship *rolls eyes* when they could have been helped and talked out of it.... You say, talk to your T first then post here if needed, but.... If I feel like ending it I just can't say I'll wait till whenever to talk to a T.... even though I don't have one, but I want the help as soon as i can get it and that help comes from the other caring members that understand what you are going through.

I'm sorry if I was confusing at all here, I'm half asleep but felt I needed to say something.

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My DX is schizophrenia and my meds are - Clozapine

The rules we have here at PC are absolutely spot on. The rules have been in place for a long time, tried and tested to keep the whole forum safe. I really appreciate this.

We are allowed to say how we feel but not to post threats, actual time etc. It is fine for someone to say that they feel they are on the edge and need extra support. It is fine to say you really feel like killing your abuser but not to post when and how you would go about it.

Looking at it from someone reading, (an example) I read that one of my best friends here is about to kill themselves. Their post tells me how and when they are going to do it, and then they disappear! None of us are in a position to zip in the car to that persons house. And what if someone posts they are going to go and kill someone? You see, there is nothing any of us could do to stop that person. This is the internet and all I can see is that these sort of posts would create fear, guilt and severe distress.

Anyone who is truly suicidal or about to harm another human being needs to get immediate help from someone in real life.

May I ask a Q ?

What if...... In the support chat room someone tells you they have taken an over dose ? I know we should inform admin but what if admin takes ages to come to us ? What do we say to the person after we have told them the usual that they must call emergency service straight away.

I have been in this situation and had to wait a fair while for help to come and I really didnt know what to say for the best.

I have come across some posts with the titles suicide, suicidal ideation, suicidal...etc. Some of them do have a trigger icon beside the title. I would appreciate if members would use a less triggering word or phrase other than the ones that I have mentioned. Even with the trigger icon beside the title...it is still triggering. And with the Internet it is easy to search for trained mental health professionals in your city/country that are better able to help you if you are suicidal or having suicidal ideations. It is even as simple as going to the front of most phone books and calling a crisis network phone number...etc.

I've come across them, too.

I'd also like to say that those type of thoughts(rapist/murder thoughts) can also occur in someone who suffers with OCD(Like I do), and they can occur for many reasons, but it does not mean that one will act on them = which will then make them a rapist/murderer/etc.