RE: suicidal posts

I thought I'd join in on the discussion.

I agree 100% to what Pupp is asking for.

When I start having thoughts of the terrible S word the very last place that I would want to go to during that period of time is to a hospital. The best thing that I need is for someone or a group of people willing to listen to what I have to say and to allow me to vent my feelings without fearing of being incarcerated for a period of time. I don't want to be viewed as a crazed suicidal person and to be pumped up with drugs when all I need is for someone to listen to me.

I agree with Helga. Suicidal people need help, they need a caring person to listen to them. Is that more likely in a hospital or with friends? I know for sure friends just talking to someone can and does save lives.

We can do more than we think.

I'm in total agreement that a person who is on the edge and really contemplating, needs to have the opportunity to talk, be heard and work through it, if at all possible.

But there is a difference between ideation and being on the edge. There has to be a line drawn somewhere in an online community such as PC. Unfortunately, we cannot be everything to everybody. First and foremost PC supplies us with a place to talk, make connections and provide all members with valuable information and a level of safety that is so very important in continuing the mission of this site.

I hope you can all understand that the guideline in place is not meant to stifle any of us it is meant to keep the community safe and to help guide us in the direction that may need to be taken.

Much love and respect,

sabby

Perhaps I need to clarify my feelings on this...

In no way do I feel that sharing that we feel suicidal, wonder if we are ever going to get better, losing hope, and needing someone to listen, help, and offer encouragement should be disallowed...folks with these feelings need reassurance and our love.

Making a post with a definite time and method is not the same thing.
It can cause panic and frantic efforts to dissuade someone from doing it. Sometimes it may help, unless that person responds with a positive No, I won't do it this time how are we to know if they did it?

What about the fear and feelings of helplessness generated in the community?
Sharing our feelings is absolutely necessary for us to get caring and support from others.
Posting a time with details?

It's been pointed out several times that we need people in our real lives to help us.

PC is an adjunct support system.
Resources are posted for help IRL if someone does not have access to their own professionals...

Please, let's not confuse sharing feelings as opposed to telling an exact time and method...

Catherine

I added the trigger icon because I'm nearly 100% certain that someone will get very angry because I do see a difference in these two things.

just thought i'd throw my $0.02 into the ring too...

i get suicidal often due to a history of...geez well everything...it doesn't really matter. i hesitate to share that with my friends and such on the site because of many reasons.

1. i have my t to call...thats what she is there for...thats what i pay her for...and if i can't reach her then i can call my regular family doc .

2. i have friends irl (which makes on line friends sound wrong somehow) who i could call..altho it would panic them to know end.

3. i could call a crisis line which would panic me.

4. i could go to the hospital which i have done. see above and also do i want the extended stay at chez bin?

probably the main reason i don't post here (when i am in that spot) is that i am aware that like me i am conscious that many others have diagnosisis (? that ain't spelled right) and my post will upset them. plus for as much mental health treatment i have had in my life...i am not a counselor, or a trained professional...some whom post here are, i am not...there are just some instances where responding to a post where my input might not be the best thing. when i am in that scary a place i want, no need my help to come from people who are trained professionals (sorry i know i just smashed some toes but its true)...my life depends on it.

and the same is true...when i am that vulnerable a triggered response by someone is not what i need. it might be harmful.

i actually like the no suicidal post thingie...it forces me to look for and use my other resources...like reaching out to my t. its easy for me to hide from her when i am in pain...and i fear i would do just that if i could just post here.

honestly if there was a place to talk about it i would be afraid there might get into a well i have done this and this a # of times kind of thing...i'm very open about my attempts if asked but i don't feel proud about them...the pain that caused them is still around and so is the struggle.

i do thing there should be a seperate catregory listed right up with the others (like depression, bipolar, etc) suicide: resouces, #,s , etc. everything you need in case of an emergency. and it should be kept updated and current and non judgemental.

well maybe is used a few more cents...sorry bout that.

stumpy
who is having a pretty good day

its a fine line....

I agree that people with suicidal ideations should post for support as everyone has mentioned here and have done so myself in the past. Thats the its all tooo much why go on feelings......

Posting that you are going to Su is a different matter - to feeling su.

I agree if you are feeling su that support here can help

if you feel you ARE going to Su then help irl is what you need - family friends professionals anyone who is around that can help you - a real hug is much better than a virtual one no matter how well meant. I fi could reach through the screen and hold your hands and take away whatever you were going to use I would - but I cant and I want everyone to be safe.

anyway thats how i feel - I hope everyone who needs help gets it

be safe be happy be well

P7

I would just like to add this if it is okay?.... but what about those of us that have no help yet?.... I still have three months to go before I even get to see anyone.... I get those thoughts all the time and need to talk about it, if not I would surely do it.... I feel the exact same way as Elysium on this subject, I also was controlled on what I was allowed to think, say, or do.... isn't this what the Trigger icon is for?.... if it is used then people have a choice to read it or not, we're here for support and if we can't get it then what good is this place?.... If I'm feeling like I want to off myself then I want help and support which everyone gives greatly here.... the last thing I want is to feel like I'm going to do it and have to keep my mouth shut about it.... that is just so stupid.... I mean, what a great feeling that would be to know that someone that needed the help died because of censorship *rolls eyes* when they could have been helped and talked out of it.... You say, talk to your T first then post here if needed, but.... If I feel like ending it I just can't say I'll wait till whenever to talk to a T.... even though I don't have one, but I want the help as soon as i can get it and that help comes from the other caring members that understand what you are going through.

I'm sorry if I was confusing at all here, I'm half asleep but felt I needed to say something.

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My DX is schizophrenia and my meds are - Clozapine

The rules we have here at PC are absolutely spot on. The rules have been in place for a long time, tried and tested to keep the whole forum safe. I really appreciate this.

We are allowed to say how we feel but not to post threats, actual time etc. It is fine for someone to say that they feel they are on the edge and need extra support. It is fine to say you really feel like killing your abuser but not to post when and how you would go about it.

Looking at it from someone reading, (an example) I read that one of my best friends here is about to kill themselves. Their post tells me how and when they are going to do it, and then they disappear! None of us are in a position to zip in the car to that persons house. And what if someone posts they are going to go and kill someone? You see, there is nothing any of us could do to stop that person. This is the internet and all I can see is that these sort of posts would create fear, guilt and severe distress.

Anyone who is truly suicidal or about to harm another human being needs to get immediate help from someone in real life.

May I ask a Q ?

What if...... In the support chat room someone tells you they have taken an over dose ? I know we should inform admin but what if admin takes ages to come to us ? What do we say to the person after we have told them the usual that they must call emergency service straight away.

I have been in this situation and had to wait a fair while for help to come and I really didnt know what to say for the best.

I've come across them, too.

I'd also like to say that those type of thoughts(rapist/murder thoughts) can also occur in someone who suffers with OCD(Like I do), and they can occur for many reasons, but it does not mean that one will act on them = which will then make them a rapist/murderer/etc.

Hello,
I can understand why the PC guidelines state that. Here is my opinion, if it helps.

Saying what one feels in my opinion would be a different state of mind set than saying what one is going to be do.

To me the word feeling is a passive state of mind set (leaves room for discussing giving direction etc.), but for one to actually state that one is going to do with details etc. an action state of mind set (implies to me, already past the feeling part)

To me when one implies they are going to do, implies they are past the feeling state and now on to the action. Very scary I would think that none of us would want to underestimate this implied action and would want to direct the person to professional help.

Being in on the internet, chat room or forum requires all of us to express our emotions in written form, which is not the best form of really communicating effectively to one with the sensitivity of needing urgent and or immediate assistance. To state or mention doing implies action and I would agree that even with an implied action one should seek the attention of actually picking up the phone calling someone or go directly to someone professionally for assistance. It is too (easy) to misunderstand the mind set and emotions of one when your trying to type it and/or read it. Not the same as reaching out and communicating verbally.

www.suicideforum.com is good.
& www.recoveryourlife.com/forum too.

Thanks all for your thoughtful comments and questions about suicide and related topics. These are not things we've taken lightly, but it is primarily a question of helping keep community members safe -- both those who are considering suicide and everyone else who may be triggered by specific method talk. Being online in a good support group can be of great help to someone who is suicidal, which we recognize. And as long as the talk is just about the general thoughts and such that a person is experiencing about suicide, that's fine.

We draw the line in posts that say they are going to die tonight, or tomorrow, or whatever, and this is how. That's not what we're setup here to do or to help with. Throughout the world, there are suicidal helplines (click the button on our homepage to find one near you), and we recommend members make use of these free resources. Online there are other groups where such discussion is allowed (but we don't vouch for those groups, nor what you may find there).

As for homicidal ideation about wanting to kill one's abuser, I fairly certain we've allowed such discussions, as long as they are fairly limited and well defined, because they fall into the same category about thoughts. Each case is different however. And so while we may allow such discussion about wanting to end the life of one's abuser, we wouldn't allow discussion about someone wanted to end the life of a person for some other reason. We have to balance individual member's needs versus those of the entire community, and so we usually have a discussion about such threads as they arise and make decisions on a case by case basis.

DocJohn

hi docjohn,

thanks for clarifying & explaining your thoughts behind the community guidelines.

in the depression forum there is a reminder saying "no suicidal posts" (or something to that effect) - i was wondering if it might be possible to add a link next to it to this post of yours (or maybe add it to the suicide resources stick you already have there)? it might clarify that suicidal thoughts are ok, but that talk of intent/method is not. and also provide a useful reminder that there are suicide helplines one can contact in crisis also.

just a suggestion .

Hey Tishie - in that situation, please PM an administrator with a copy of the chat (if you don't know how to do that, I can tell you). Please also do tell the person that they MUST call emergency services right away. If they don't choose to do that - here's a good page on our website you can give to them: http://psychcentral.com/helpme.htm

Please do take a look at the "Who's Online" list at that time and see if a moderator/administrator is online and PM them asking them to help. (Even though I've received PMs after I disappeared offline and still appeared "online").

Beyond that you do NOT have to put yourself into a situation you're not comfortable with. You are more than allowed to put another member on "ignore" if you're in that situation. It can be really triggering and upsetting dealing with someone who is suicidal.

We are not equipped, nor trained to deal with someone in that sort of a crisis so please only help out as much as you can.

I had this situation where a guy in chat was talking about killing himself that night. I was trying to be supportive, but got frantic when he signed off with grim words. I actually managed to FIND THE GUY & CALL HIM AT HOME. (I also notified an admin. here at PC). This guy when he answered the phone was quite jovial. I asked for the guy who had posted by name & he said it was him. I expressed my deep concern about what he had been saying & can you believe it, this guy was laughing & having a party! He had just written this stuff & then forgot about it & went on in a happy-go-lucky way.

I was frantic & spent a lot of time worrying until I could locate him.

Those kind of posts definitely shouldn't be here. Talking about thoughts or previous experiences is one thing, but when you are posting like it is imminent is totally irresponsible & scary to those who read it.

Thankfully, he didn't seriously mean what he posted, but I didn't know that! It was awful to go through that experience as my mother did commit suicide & I've had attempts of my own & am working so hard to never do that kind of thing again & I certainly can't ignore a post like that.

((((((trying & caring))))))

i'm so sorry you had to go through such a frightening experience. you did the right thing in notifying admin, and you are such a caring person for finding this person's number to call and check up on him. it touches me so much that we have people on PC who would do that for a stranger they've spoken to over the net.

just a suggestion (should it ever happen again - here or elsewhere on the web, which i sincerely hope it won't) - is that you call the police/emergency services in your area and turn the chat transcripts over to them. they will have the resources to track the poster down, assess them and provide support if it is required.

it is a difficult balance between being someone who is concerned and desperately wants to help, and also knowing that you need to look after yourself. i used to volunteer for a suicide crisis line (phone & online) and this is what we would do (try to talk the person out of those thoughts, but once it became apparent that the threat was immediate - refer on to emergency services who had better and more appropriate services & personnel to deal with an critical situation like that). there was a case recently where someone in america made a report about someone they were concerned about, and it became an international thing - i think they were able to find & help the girl involved in time, but i can't remember the details of which countries were involved or anything.

Would it be helpful to have a forum for survivors of loved ones that have committed suicide? Maybe when we get over the top we could look at the aftermath and rethink??

Personally, I would like to see that on PC being a survivor of a parental suicide. jmo...

My sister killed herself and my parents killed themselves 15 years later. It's been 10 years but it continues to weigh so heavily on my heart and soul.

I an so sorry for your loss. I hope we can keep in touch...it would be so helpful to have someone who's "been there" to talk with. I find that so many others are "fascinated" by the situation that they don't hear my pain.

Ho, ho, ho...happy holidays

~ Melanie

Be the kind of woman who, when your feet hit the floor in the morning, the devil says...
"Oh Crap. She's up!"

May you find peace.