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Default Apr 29, 2009 at 03:14 PM
  #1
If suicidal posts are prohibited, why are they permitted to remain? i noticed in the depression forum a "gentle reminder" that suicidal posts aren't permitted yet there is one. It's very disturbing. i don't like the powerlessness it invokes nor the resulting anxiety. i want this person to get help and feel supported but it's not a position any of us should be put in. Thank you.
 

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Post Apr 29, 2009 at 03:30 PM
  #2
Hi Meso. This just my thinking, but I do think it's determined by the way it's phrased?

There are many suicidal members here at any one time. To post anything to denote active ideation and possible attempts is not allowed, as it does trigger others and we can't do anything directly for the member in crisis. They need to call their therapist or emergency workers or go to the ER.

However, feeling depressed enough to feel like dying, and posting for support to get through the lousy feelings is another matter. That's what PC is all about: support when you most need it.

I hope I showed the difference.

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Default Apr 29, 2009 at 04:25 PM
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Yes, i do get that. i suppose the post i'm referencing without naming names is a bit vague and, again, i want people to get the support they need. It's just that, in this case, it's not "i feel this way", it uses words that sound more final. Anyway, i appreciate the input, thanks muchly.
 
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Default Apr 29, 2009 at 04:52 PM
  #4
Just for future reference:

If you EVER see a post that you think may be against guidelines, or you find offensive or is a member in clear crisis - PLEASE click the "report post" button found on all posts. That way all of the members of the Community Team are informed and can act. Otherwise, please PM an online moderator or administrator with your concerns and a direct link to the post in question.

If there aren't any of the Community Team online, feel free to PM me or whomever you're most comfortable with on the team and we'll deal with it as soon as we can.

Thank you for caring about another person's well-being.

Have a good day!!

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Default Apr 29, 2009 at 05:02 PM
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Thanks very much. It didn't occur to me to use the report post option. i should have done that so that the person in question could perhaps get quicker support. Man, i hope i didn't mess up in that regard. i think i dissociated and froze a bit...i know i spaced out quite a bit trying to figure out what to say, do, think, feel. i guess i'm doing my best here just as everyone else here. Thanks again!
 
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Default May 13, 2009 at 09:11 PM
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MeSo, I love your tagline. I have lived a lie for so many years. You are so brave! You inspire me to do better. Thanks! Susan
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Question Jul 14, 2009 at 03:39 PM
  #7
I have a question about Psychcentral policy and rather than start a new thread I thought it might fit well with the discussion already in progress.

I don't really understand why messages containing suicidal thoughts or suicidal actions are not allowed but messages about cutting and self mutilation is okay.

Obviously if somebody is thinking seriously about suicide it can upset other people but if I am hurting so badly that I am considering suicide then maybe sharing my thoughts could help me get help before it is too late.

For the record I am not suicidal today but I have been in the past and made one attempt twenty years ago. I would like to think that if I were suicidal again that I could share my desperation but that is not allowed here.

I just don't understand why we have a forum dedicated to discussing self harm but discussing the ultimate self harm, suicide, is banned.

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Default Jul 14, 2009 at 03:54 PM
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I think the issue in question is triggering.
Sometimes when people read about suicide it might trigger thoughts of their own and unfortunately action on said thoughts.
While I understand talking something out sometimes helps people, I think the intent here is for those who are really in a bad way they need to be encouraged to find local tangible support to help prevent any actions rather than just typing away and getting themselves more emotionally "bound up".
Does this make sense?
do I have it right?
And does anyone have any comments on what I've said?
Please let me know if I'm
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Default Jul 14, 2009 at 03:56 PM
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
I have a question about Psychcentral policy and rather than start a new thread I thought it might fit well with the discussion already in progress.

I don't really understand why messages containing suicidal thoughts or suicidal actions are not allowed but messages about cutting and self mutilation is okay.

Obviously if somebody is thinking seriously about suicide it can upset other people but if I am hurting so badly that I am considering suicide then maybe sharing my thoughts could help me get help before it is too late.

For the record I am not suicidal today but I have been in the past and made one attempt twenty years ago. I would like to think that if I were suicidal again that I could share my desperation but that is not allowed here.

I just don't understand why we have a forum dedicated to discussing self harm but discussing the ultimate self harm, suicide, is banned.
((((((((((( Yoda ))))))))))))

Can you not see how distressing it would be if members were allowed to do suicide posts and then went ahead and did it and died? We are not in a position to help someone in that sort of distress. It's not really possible to stop someone from committing suicide on the internet. Someone who is suicidal needs (irl) immediate care and attention. Psych Central is a wonderful support site but it is not a hospital.

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Default Jul 14, 2009 at 04:05 PM
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
I have a question about Psychcentral policy and rather than start a new thread I thought it might fit well with the discussion already in progress.

I don't really understand why messages containing suicidal thoughts or suicidal actions are not allowed but messages about cutting and self mutilation is okay.

Obviously if somebody is thinking seriously about suicide it can upset other people but if I am hurting so badly that I am considering suicide then maybe sharing my thoughts could help me get help before it is too late.

For the record I am not suicidal today but I have been in the past and made one attempt twenty years ago. I would like to think that if I were suicidal again that I could share my desperation but that is not allowed here.

I just don't understand why we have a forum dedicated to discussing self harm but discussing the ultimate self harm, suicide, is banned.
Hey Yoda,

I'll try to explain it for you and hopefully my words will make sense.

Cutting and self mutilation are far from the ultimate of taking ones' own life. There is a big difference there.

We do have members here that are feeling suicidal at any given time. If they post that they are feeling that way and what emotions they are going through at the time and looking for support, that is one thing. For a member to post that I'm going to do it xxx and this is how I will do it.....that is against our guidelines.

Our guideline states -
Quote:
Inappropriate Content
  • Messages containing suicidal threats or suicidal actions
A threat would be along the lines of "I'm done, tonight's the night" or "Goodbye cruel world, I won't be back PC".

If you are discussing that you are wondering why you should continue....that leaves the door open for conversation and support. See the difference?

I hope what I have said has helped.....feel free to pm if you have further questions ok?


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Default Jul 14, 2009 at 04:17 PM
  #11
Yet self harming threads are just as triggering, and can actually lead to accidental death.

I think we should be allowed to express how we feel, whether that's suicidal, sad, depressed, lonely, triggered, hurting, suffering, happiness, etc.

Being heard is important and being less alone and feeling related to is important, too.

But yeah.
It's doubtful the rule will be changed.
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Default Jul 15, 2009 at 01:51 AM
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupp View Post
Yet self harming threads are just as triggering, and can actually lead to accidental death.

I think we should be allowed to express how we feel, whether that's suicidal, sad, depressed, lonely, triggered, hurting, suffering, happiness, etc.

Being heard is important and being less alone and feeling related to is important, too.
But yeah.
It's doubtful the rule will be changed.
Jmo...
There is obviously a big difference in an accidental death and a planned one.
Struggling with SI is absolutely dangerous, and much support and understanding is given. It can give the poster time to think before acting, or seek medical help if they have already SId and it's serious.
There is a chance to prevent, to guide and direct someone.

With suicidal posts, there is nothing anyone here can do.
Oh wait, there is...we can worry and weep and wonder if that person did it.
Sharing feelings of despair and needing comfort is vastly different from an announcement of "here I go..."
What the heck can anyone do with that kind of post??
Nothing.

I have seen it happen on another forum where someone will post about their detailed plans on their final exit. Nothing is heard from them despite pleas to get help, numbers for the Hot Lines, numerous offers of personal phone calls...

There is a void, but there is also a question of whether that person was serious and did it; or was it an attention getter.
Crap like that stirs up a lot of guilt, fear, and sadness from those who tried to help.

There has to be some kind of boundary about these things.

Sharing most feelings and reaching out for help has never been discouraged here at PC.

For the protection of the community as a whole, yeah, it's been asked that members do not make suicidal posts.

Jmo, of course

Catherine

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Default Jul 15, 2009 at 02:36 AM
  #13
that was a really helpful clarification, sabby, thank you. do you think that bit you quoted could be put in the depression forums instead of the current message? or maybe a link to that quote? because i have been reading it like meso - that suicidal content is inappropriate, not just threats/plans.
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Default Jul 15, 2009 at 04:42 PM
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Whether an "attention getter" or seriously considering, they should be heard and supported.

I've tried to attempt suicide more than 30+, I've just lost count now, times in my life, since age 9, through to last year in December, almost succeeding many times, I think people do understand suicidal idealization, suicidal feelings, suicidal thoughts, as well as SI/SH. I just think people should be heard and should say how they feel/what they are thinking for a chance to open the door to help/being supported.

But I know this one opinion won't matter to change a rule like that. Just my opinion, and that's it. Cheers.
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Default Jul 16, 2009 at 11:36 AM
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupp View Post
Whether an "attention getter" or seriously considering, they should be heard and supported.

I just think people should be heard and should say how they feel/what they are thinking for a chance to open the door to help/being supported.

But I know this one opinion won't matter to change a rule like that. Just my opinion, and that's it. Cheers.
I agree with you that people deserve to be heard Pupp....most definitely. Thank you for your input

While we have a lot of leeway to speak our minds here, there are some things that we just cannot help members with, and that is real life, real time assistance to a member who is actively suicidal. This needs to be dealt with between a member and a professional who can help and treat immediately for that member's safety. DocJohn created this guideline to help keep our community safe and to aid those who are suicidal to look IRL for support and help.

Many members have suicidal ideation every single day. It's not against guidelines to discuss that one is feeling like this, and as long as there is no plan or discussion of how they would accomplish it, one can reach out for support and help.

Pupp, if you feel really strongly about your thoughts on this, you are more than welcome to pm DocJohn and let him know. I can't speak for him as to if he would or would not change this guideline, that's up to him.


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Default Jul 16, 2009 at 11:23 PM
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Thanks sabby, I also agree that people deserve to be heard.

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Default Jul 17, 2009 at 02:30 AM
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I too wondered about this when I first signed up - I did think to myself that even talking about contemplating suicide could be conceived as a threat & would therefore be inappropriate & unwelcome. I do fully understand the reasoning for the rule & sabby's clarifications make absolute sense to me.

I did wonder if the resources links under the depression forum & maybe a link back to the appropriate section of the main site's Resources pages, might be duplicated somewhere on the main forum index page - just so they're more immediately available for somebody in crisis? (My reasoning for that, is that when I visit the site, the main forum index is nearly always the 1st page I hit.)
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Default Jul 17, 2009 at 04:54 AM
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I thought I'd join in on the discussion.

I agree 100% to what Pupp is asking for.

When I start having thoughts of the terrible S word the very last place that I would want to go to during that period of time is to a hospital. The best thing that I need is for someone or a group of people willing to listen to what I have to say and to allow me to vent my feelings without fearing of being incarcerated for a period of time. I don't want to be viewed as a crazed suicidal person and to be pumped up with drugs when all I need is for someone to listen to me.

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Default Jul 17, 2009 at 05:53 AM
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I agree with Helga. Suicidal people need help, they need a caring person to listen to them. Is that more likely in a hospital or with friends? I know for sure friends just talking to someone can and does save lives.

We can do more than we think.

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Default Jul 17, 2009 at 10:54 AM
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I'm in total agreement that a person who is on the edge and really contemplating, needs to have the opportunity to talk, be heard and work through it, if at all possible.

But there is a difference between ideation and being on the edge. There has to be a line drawn somewhere in an online community such as PC. Unfortunately, we cannot be everything to everybody. First and foremost PC supplies us with a place to talk, make connections and provide all members with valuable information and a level of safety that is so very important in continuing the mission of this site.

I hope you can all understand that the guideline in place is not meant to stifle any of us it is meant to keep the community safe and to help guide us in the direction that may need to be taken.

Much love and respect,

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