[SeptemberMorn]

Can you give us some of your thoughts on Redemption, Justification and Sanctification? You can take one subject at a time, if you like.

[(JD)]

Such a request! And you aren't the only one asking btw I'll do my best, but can't possibly put all the good stuff in one posting.<font color="green">

Let's begin with the definition, because even from that we can garner hope.

In Hebrew, such as in Job 19:25 the word ga'ul means avenger, deliver, purchase, ransom, redeem

and in Psalm 34:22 the word is paduh meaning ransom, generally to release, preserve.

In the greek, "exagorazo" and "lutroo" are the most used verbs. (For nouns lutrosis, apolutrosis are used.) Used as deliverance from torture, releasing for (on the payment of) a ransom Heb 11:35. Romans 3:24 through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 1:7 defined as the forgiveness of our trespasses, Colossians 1:14 the forgiveness of our sins indicating both the liberation from the guilt and doom of sin and the introduction into a life of liberty.

Hebrew 9:15 is a good verse (as if there are bad verses?) "for the redemption of the trangressions that were under the first covenant."

{For more indepth study: Heb 9:15 "redemption of" is equivalent to "redemption from" : the genitive case being used of the object from which the "redemption" is effected, not from the consequence of the trangrsssions, but from the trangressions themselves! The deliverance of the believer from the presence and from the power of sin, and of his body from bondage to corruption, at the coming (Parousia) of the Lord Jesus.}

<font color="purple"> Genesis 3 brings us to the purpose of the rest of the Bible (after the first two "chapters" of creation, etc.) that being the account of God's redemption of sinners.

Redemption fulfills God's purpose in creation (Genesis 2:7) 1 Corinthians 15:45 c. The covenant plan of redemption is found in Genesis 1:3 even, so it is not something unplanned by God.
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The concept of redemption is an exciting one, btw.

The Hebrew word ga'al, is used 90 times in the OT, chiefly in the Pentateuch, Psalms, Isaiah and Ruth. Genesis 48:16, "the angel which redeemed me (Jacob) from all evil," meaning "delivered me from all harm." It's basic use had to do with deliverance of person or property that had been sold for debt (Leviticus 25:25,26, 39,47-49)

The responsibility to redeem belonged to the nearest relative (kinsman.) Ruth 2:20 (In the NIV) translates the word kinsman-redeemer, as in OT times the person who "redeemed" the one in financial difficulties was known as a kinsman-reedemer.

The verb occurs in this form 12 times, translated at times as "revenger" or "avenger."

For the Book of Isaiah, "Redeemer" is used of God 13 times, and "ga'al" is used 9 times of God (first in Isa. 43:1) Israel's Redeemer is "the Holy One of Israel" (Isa 41:14,) "the creator of Israel, your King (43:14-15) "the Lord of hosts" (44:6)and "the mighty One of Jacob" (49:26." Those who share His salvation are "the redeemed."

The study of "padah," and kapar," both meaning "to ransom" is extensive. Padah indicates that some intervening or substitutionary action effects a release from an undesireable condition. (Money is not the only basis.)

The word kapar is more secular in it's usage at times, but at the basic level of meaning it shows a material transaction or "ransom." But it also carries specific rites and the subject is a priest. This is where it also connects to the sacrifices and the shedding of blood for atonement. Think propitiation and expiation. "Expiate," "atone" and "forgive" when related to a sacrifice, all have God as their primary subject. {expiate: to extinguish the guilt incurred; atone: to supply satisfaction for; forgive: to grant relief from payment of}

All the sacrifices in the world would not satisfy God's righteouness (requirement) Micah 6:7, Psalm 50:7-15) The righteous God is neither implacable nor capricious but provides Himself the "ransom" or substitue sacrifice that would satisy Him. {implacable: not capable of being appeased; capricious: unpredictable, impulsive}

In Leviticus 25:24 where g'ullah (noun) is used, it's with regard to deliverance of persons or property that had been sold for debt.

<font color="purple">[b] I guess in layman's terms... Sin entered the world through (the first) Adam... thus requiring redemption. God gave those who lived before Christ "redemption promised" through the sacrificial offerings as they had faith that He would send the ultimate Redeemer (Messiah.) This was the first or Old Covenant. (The covenant being that if people believed He would send a Redeemer for them in the future, and they showed that belief through offering the required sacrifice, God would do so, and they would be redeemed.)

Sin was conquered through the "second Adam," Christ. Being sinless, Christ carried the requisite (necessary) requirements to be able to pay our debt for sin, and thus Redeem us. He met God's price requirements for the redemption of sinful mankind. <font color="black"> {Therefore the sacrifices are not man's action, but God's own act of pardoning mercy.) </font> This is the second covenant which we (those living after Christ's resurrection) believe for our redemption.

We, as sinners, cannot enter God's presence because He is Righteous and Pure. We are unable to make payment for our own sin, being in bondage to it. God sent His Son to redeem us, so that we may enter into His presence. As the people of the Old Covenant had to rely upon sacrifices to show faith of looking forward to the Messiah's (Christ) payment, we only need to accept God's Redemption for our sin, looking back to Christ's payment with faith. Acceptance of the Redeemer is the method of redemption.

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Let the Redeemed of the Lord say so!

[SeptemberMorn]

WHEW! Why aren't you still preaching/teaching, Sky?

This is amazing! It's something I already knew, but now I see it was only on the surface. The question of the blood sacrifices in the Old Covenant is really clear to me now. Even before the Messiah came, there needed to be faith in Him that he WOULD come! That's something I had never processed.

Thank you SOOOO much! Can't wait for your next installment.

PS I couldn't have gotten this "feeding" in church today. You've done one better!

<center>I am REEDEMED!</center>

[(JD)]

<font color="blue">JustificationLatin justificatio; Greek dikaiosis.)

This is an ecclesiastical term as it describes the transforming of the sinner from the state of unrighteousness to the state of righteous holiness and sonship of God. Considered as an act (actus justificationis), justification is the work of God alone. "Saving grace" is another term, meaning that in spite of our original sinful nature, because of our accepting by faith God's Gift, Christ justifies our righteousness. Grace is unmerited favor. It means something good though we don't deserve it.

Psalm 130 :<font color="purple"> "If You, Lord, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?" (130:3 NKJV) </font>

The answer? No one. That is, on our own accord for we are born into unrighteousness. The doctrine of justification refers to our status before the judgment of God. Every person will be called to account before God for his life and whether he or she accepted God's Gift of salvation. Those who have not, and remain unrighteous will be judged to damnation, but those who have accepted the Gift will be seen through Christ's work on the cross, and be declared righteous, and justified...sola fide. (By faith alone.)
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("For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. As it is written:<font color="purple"> "There is none righteous, no, not one...." Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:9-10, 19-20 NKJV)) </font>
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Paul excludes justification virtue of our doing deeds of the law. Justification on the ground of our works is eliminated as an option. Christians were once debtors who could not pay their debts to God. God requires perfection. We cannot meet that requirement. And, by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in God's sight.

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"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God which is through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:21-26 NKJV) </font> Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.

This is the same way of justification given by The Law to Jews, and spoken by the Prophets of old. It is justification through faith in Jesus Christ, the Messiah. As mentioned before, elsewhere, the Jewish people were required to offer a sacrifice with faith that God would do as He promised them: send the Messiah in the future, to redeem them.

Such justification only is given to those who believe.

"Again,the dilemma faced by the sinner summoned to the judgment seat of God is this: The sinner must appear before a divine Judge who is perfectly just. Yet the sinner is unjust. How can he possibly be unjust and justified? For God to justify the impious (iustificatio impii) and himself remain just in the process, the sinner must somehow become actually just by a righteousness supplied him by another. "

How can this happen? Anyone who is a photographer will easily understand my analogy. When you take a red filter and place it over a lens and take a photograph, the filter filters OUT all the red in the picture. Imagine sin is red, and when the blood of Christ is place before us in our sinful state, God the Father does not see our sin, because we are justified through Christ and deemed righteous. I imagine a scene before the throne for those who are the redeemed, where God calls each of our names and Christ stands in front of us and with arms wide stretched to cover us up, declares we are justified by faith in Him. I hope I see you there.







Study of the doctrine of justification can be found in Systematic Theology texts.

[(JD)]

By the way, I never preached as it wasn't proper, however now that we are in end times, well, God said that women will be doing more things in the way of preaching; I wish them well.

[SeptemberMorn]

Thanks, Sky! This one was a little more difficult to absorb, maybe because there was stuff going on here at home that interfered with my concentration. You can be sure I'll be reading this again and again!



PS My mom didn't have formal studies, but she knew her Bible very well. In her later years, she preached once a month at a very small Hispanic church near here. That was a totally different woman standing behind the pulpit than the woman I had lived with. I learned more from listening to her sermons than I did living with her day to day. Go figure...

She had all her hand writen sermons in a couple of notebooks. I can still get completely immersed just reading them.

[(JD)]

Oh I have notes galore! My presentations were more of conference type lectures/discourses. I'll get to the Sanctification as soon as I can.

I know you said a common phrase before... that justification makes it "just as if" we had never sinned! How true.

[(JD)]

http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenth...k/jcjustif.htm John Calvin on Justification.

" I trust I have now sufficiently shown how man's only resource for escaping from the curse of the law, and recovering salvation, lies in faith; and also what the nature of faith is, what the benefits which it confers, and the fruits which it produces. The whole may be thus summed up: Christ given to us by the kindness of God is apprehended and possessed by faith, by means of which we obtain in particular a twofold benefit; first, being reconciled by the righteousness of Christ, God becomes, instead of a judge, an indulgent Father; and, secondly, being sanctified by his Spirit, we aspire to integrity and purity of life. "

[(JD)]

It has been good to review these strong, important aspects of my faith (((septi))). I will now turn my thoughts to the last term you inquired about: sanctification.

Sanctification is both a noun and a verb. The noun hagiasmos is used of<ul type="square">[*]separation to God[*]the course of life befitting those so separated and also[*] in the NT of the separation of the believer from evil things and ways.[/list]
It is good to notice that there is some difference at times between the Hebrew word that Greek words used in connection to the word "sanctification." This includes words of the same type such as sanctify, holy, holiness, hallow, sacred, dedicate and devoted. There is a distinction between positional sanctification (God's declarative acts) and present and future sanctification (divine works in believers.)

The Greek NT follows the usage furnished by the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the OT Hebrew words.

Most scholars find 4 categories of the word "sanctification." <ul type="square">[*] A pagan cultic use[*]Holy in an ethical-moral sense[*] Biblical religious use and[*] Christian doctrinal use.[/list]
I will try to just focus on the latter.

<font color="purple">Acts 26:18 and 1 Corinthians 1:1 </font> States that there is a past declarative act of God where all Christian believers have been rendered holy. <font color="purple">Hebrews 10:10 "we have been sanctified" and 1 Cor. 6:11 "you were sanctified." </font>

This past sanctification was conferred by Christ <font color="purple">Christ Jesus..made..sanctification 1 Cor 1:30, and Jesus, in order to sanctify the people...Heb 13:12.

Romans 6:14 </font>Gives us assurance that as a Christian, sin will not lord over us.

Past sanctification is by faith. Acts 26:18 It does not rest on what men do or ought to do, except for saving faith.

It is the present possession of all believing sinners.

It being a declarative act of God is complete, perfect, and finished for each believer. <font color="purple"> Once, for all. Hebrews 10:10.</font>

Most theologians speak of present or progressive sanctification when they speak of the doctrine of sanctification.

Sanctification is concerned that God <font color="purple">"sanctify you completely, whole spirit and soul and body..blameless. I Thessalonians 5:23.</font> WGT Shedd : As apostasy began in the pneuma [spirit] and affected the other parts of human nature, sanctification begins in the pneuma and passes throughout the soul and body. A man can control his physical appetites, in proportion as he has vivid spiritual perception of God and divine things. The intuition of the pneuma restrains the appetites of the psyche (soul) and soma (body.) If spiritual perception be dim, the bodily appetite is strong."

When Adam and Eve sinned, God said in warning they would surely die. This not only meant they would no longer be immortal, but that their soul had died. Through regeneration (accepting Christ, being born again, the second birth etc) we receive spiritual life, a new nature by God's grace, betterment of the thought-life, feelings and use of the body that grow with knowledge. "Sanctification is that continuous operation of the Holy Spirit, by which the holy disposition imparted in regeneration is maintained and strengthened." A H Strong.

It is the Holy Spirit that effects the sanctification, as He takes up residence within the believer. <font color="purple"> John 14:17 He will be in you" </font> Creates the fruit of the Spirit,<font color="purple"> Gal 5 22-26 "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control."</font>

Complete redemption of the body awaits the resurrection and until then the "motion" of sin affects us still.

RD Culver mentions there are 5 things mentioned by Scripture as the means or causes of sanctification: <ul type="square">[*]faith: sanctification is by grace through faith (Eph 2:8.9)[*]the appointed offices, ordinances, and services of the church Heb 13:17, Phil 1:1[*] the Holy Scriptures. John 17:17, Eph 6:17[*] prayer. John 14:13,14[*]the providential divine chastening in the life experience of believers. Romans 5:3,4[/list]
When we are made complete again at the resurrection, then also will be completed the sanctification of the body.<font color="purple"> "fashion anew the body of our humiliation" Phil 3:21.</font>

This act of sanctification by God allows us to understand and follow what we find in<font color="purple"> Matt 5:48 : be perfect as God is perfect.</font> God is conformed to His own nature as God. We, created in His image, should as fast as possible bring our level of thought and deed up to the level of purpose God had for each of us when He created us. This is the correct understanding of the aphorism: to thine own self be true.

<font color="purple">Romans 8:28 all things are employed by God for the good of "those who are the called." </font> The means of sanctification are illimitable!

[SeptemberMorn]

YIKES! I'm still working on "justification"! I'd better be more diligent! I'm gonna have questions, you understand.

Here's the first: It seems to me that I've heard some arguments against Calvin. Could you tell me who it is so that I can read for myself what those arguments are?

I'll ask more as the questions come to me.

In Santification, the phrase "once in grace, always in grace" came to me and I've also heard pro and con arguments on that. You can answer that now or wait...

[(JD)]

"sola gratia" grace alone. Unmerited favor, remember? We do not deserve what God has given and offered to us. Since it is not earned, and is grace, then how -or rather why- would God decide to not extend His grace continuously?

I believe and am encouraged by the verses that do say it is by grace alone that I am saved. Certainly, if it were up to me to physically keep any law or do good works, what then, would I no longer be saved because I am now disabled and cannot do works? AH... I am comforted because it is God who is gracious. I only had to accept His Gift, for it is by grace through faith I am saved.

[SeptemberMorn]

There's no way I can immagine that you, Sky, would do anything that would make you fall out of Grace. Maybe my thoughts were running more towards more like murder or grand theft... heck, even a small theft... say it was a failure to be able to resist a great temptation, knowing that what one was doing was wrong. IDK, it was just a conversation I overheard between my cousins that are all ministers. For sure, I don't have to worry about it... I don't think. LOL

[SeptemberMorn]

Ok, never mind about Calvinism. I figured it out. Actually, both questions are related. I've also answered for myself the last question I asked you. Disregard!

Guess I've shaken some memories loose with my questions and remembering what my cousins talked about at family reunions. They always "talked shop"! LOL There was one cousin-in-law that played the devil's advocate. ggrrrr Can't say as I ever liked the man... any way I looked at him. He thought that "I Walk the Line" by Johnny Cash was a religious song.

[(JD)]

Paul said, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient." Having been included under the grace of God, there is no more sin that would condemn me (or any such person) to hell. But there are plenty of things I (anyone) can do to cause turmoil. The only sin that condemns one to hell, according to my Christian faith, is the rejection of Christ and his propitiating work on the cross.

I believe Christ died for sin, past present and future, otherwise He would have to come and die everyday...and only those secure are those who are dead. And, sin is sin. What may be a big sin to us is "just" sin to Him, and it separates us from Him unless we are covered through Christ ( what I refer to as a true Christian.) Yes, we are chastised when we do wrong, something that is different from those who are not sanctified. (This is why those who aren't really Christians can seemingly get away with doing wrong all the time and never reaping -in this life- what they sow.) True Christians are chastised.

True Christians are also attacked by non Christians. This is a "promise" given in His Word. Because we are set apart, we are different, and others do not understand this. Some, thinking that it is something WE have done, that WE think we are better etc, attack us. It's not really us though that is "offending" them, but the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who causes them bad feelings about their own sinful nature. I always wonder about the "Christians" I am dealing with IRL when full blown attacks on each other occur... though it can be that there are those who are not close to God involved, it could also be that some are not true Christians but pretenders. We are not "better" in one respect, just on a different path. (Think about the high schooler and the college student... different choices different paths.)

This sanctification, though free, comes at a high cost. We "better" study what God wants and be able to speak to others what He has said (or not said) on subjects. This pleases God. We need to know what His wishes are, and talk with Him all the time about what we are experiencing and find out what it is that He wants us to know and learn from it. But all in all, we best fellowship with Him, to please Him.

<font color="blue"> To win others to Christ is not our ultimate task as a Christian. (I believe that it is the Holy Spirit that woos people to Christ, we are there to show them how if they ask.)

God created Adam and Eve for HIS GLORY, for HIS FELLOWSHIP. When they sinned, He lost that fellowship. Yes, He could have just forgiven them, but then who would believe Him in the future? He had said they would die. We would not respect a capricious Supreme Being (like those we see in Star Trek?) But HE provided a way so HE could fellowship with us, and us with Him. THIS is our task: to fellowship with God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. This is why our every word we speak, thought we think, and action we make should try to honor Him. We are not here for the benefit of others, though that is a result of our walk with God. We are here to honor and please and fellowship with God.

[b] I find this most comforting, that the God of the Universe not only knows who I am, but loves me and wants to share in my life.

[SeptemberMorn]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
And, sin is sin. What may be a big sin to us is "just" sin to Him, and it separates us from Him unless we are covered through Christ

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That's something I learned as a child. Sin is black. The lack of sin is white. There are no grey areas. "Sin is sin."

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Yes, we are chastised when we do wrong,

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Finances have always been a problem for me. If I manage my money wisely, I find that what I have left is more than enough to meet my needs. When I've been wasteful, no matter what I do, I don't have enough to get me through... even when I pray for help. For a while now, it has felt and I have said that "God is tightening the screws." Maybe that's not a good way to put it, but in essence, He's "chastising" me in order to bring me back in line where He wants me and where I need to be. There have also been times when he has been "a doting Father."

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I always wonder about the "Christians" I am dealing with IRL when full blown attacks on each other occur... though it can be that there are those who are not close to God involved, it could also be that some are not true Christians but pretenders.

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This brings to mind The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis. It also brings to mind a great old man of the cloth that I once knew.

It could be that some "Christians" are on the verge of making that final commitment for Christ and Satan is launching an all out attack on them. Satan attacks them because he doesn't want to lose "another one." Then there's Dr. Miller, the man of whom I spoke above. He was such a threat to Satan that Satan sent a fireball to chase Dr. Miller around a hut in some country that is strong in Voodoo. No doubt someone invoked Satan to do this. Dr. Miller, through the grace of God, survived that attack.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Because we are set apart, we are different, and others do not understand this.

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This brings back the words of my aunt in a coversation we had. She said she prayed for her daughters as well as for me that God would keep us "set apart from this world" as we were sent into the world. The verse is in the book of John, I do believe. I'll have to look it up.

Why is it that we're so ready to believe those that aren't as close to us as our own parents?? My mother may have said the very same words to me but I didn't hear them from her. Feels like to me that all this has stirred up even more hidden issues with my mother. It's amazing how studying God's Word can bring about more healing just when you think you've got the bull by the horns! I can hear my mother's voice ringing in my head as she taught and preached. It sounds glorious!! There's got to be some closing of the gap between the woman that raised me and that woman that had to stand on a box to look over the podium. Oy Vey! Too many memories!

[(JD)]

I'm not sure of which you speak exactly. One of the references I left out is Romans 12:2 But I'll list from 12:1.. I beseech you therefore bretheren, by the mericies of God that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God which is your reasonable service.. (2) and be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God.

verse 3: For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly acoording as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

It's a good text and worthy of it's own thread. It can certainly uplift Christians, while putting us in our places, almost literally

[SeptemberMorn]

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Here is what I found... but the words aren't coming up just right. Maybe it was my aunt's interpretation of them that I'm remembering.

John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

What I remember my aunt saying is "I have prepared them to go into the world, yet they are not of this world. (They have been set apart.)"

Jesus was speaking of the disciples' sanctification through Jesus' own sanctification.

[(JD)]

LOL well why didn't you quote that to me in the first place? John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love his own, but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

You know, you probably would do better if you knew what translation your Mom used. Back then there weren't as many to choose from... Scofield, Cambridge, KJV, ASV...

John 17:16,17 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through the truth, thy word is truth
[b]
18: As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

[SeptemberMorn]

If I had quoted it to you in SPANISH, would you have understood it?? My AUNT was speaking Spanish to me at the time! LOL

This was my MOM'S verse for me:

Psalm 1:1
1 Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers.

She NEVER, NEVER trusted me OR my friends. Oh, well...