[ScientiaOmnisEst]

So I'm trawling around Google trying to find any info about an experience I find myself having, and one topic keeps coming up: ego. Ego and how bad it is.

It's a lie, a false self, claim innumerable "spiritual experts". It's part of the Matrix; it's inherently a deranged lie, it's somehow cutting you off from some spiritual Source. Killing your ego has zero negative effects and will make you more logical, loving, effective, and all around alive. What a paradox: kill yourself in every way but physically to be truly alive.

I've met a few possibly egoless individuals: they were not loving or likable. Logical and efficient to the extreme, but had nothing but vitriol for average people they saw beneath them. Many of them were close to perfect though, transcendently intelligent, so maybe there's something to it.

Still, the whole ego-hate thing is so common, it almost sounds creepy. Almost cult-like in its execution, insisting that your deepest and most natural self is really some falsely constructed front, that by eliminating it, obliterating all your desires and personality and connections and becoming a blank empty shell, you'll ascend somehow. I don't buy their pseudospiritual bull that outside of egoic existence is some universal love that trumps any need for competition, connection, or validation - it's too absurd (weird, I know. I can entertain the possibility of a drawing manifesting something into existence but the notion that separation and individuality is an illusion is too ridiculous) I can't be the only one creeped out and frustrated by this.

[leejosepho]

Dr. Harry Tiebout was influential upon Alcoholics Anonymous in its early days, and he talked about ego deflation, not ego destruction. I do not know the formal definition of ego, but today I perceive at least the foolishly-inflated ego as "EGO = Edging God Out" in the sense of my previously having tried to "play God" in my own life as well as in the lives of others and ultimately discovering that never worked out well at all.

[Gus1234U]

there must be as many ways to conceptualize Ego as there are people doing it... when i think of moving beyond the bounds of Ego, i think of seeing my own misconceptions of Being what has happened to me, and how i have responded....

that is what ego is to me,, the form my thoughts take about my Being. i want to reshape those thoughts, to be more open, less afraid, more aware of the whole continuum of BEING, and not just a body, a feeling, a thought, a belief~~

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Heh, I guess this was kind of an impulse post. I was considering deleting it since it's kind of ranty and useless, but now that people have responded, I guess not.

It still distresses me. This idea that my sense of Self is somehow a bad thing, an evil thing - and most of all, a false thing. Then again, I more often find myself thinking that the world and everything in it is evil, like everything is just wrong. Yet I don't see how it's possible to have a full life with no ego.

As long as this is a thread, what do people think of drug-induced ego experiences? It seems like everyone who does LSD has the exact same experience of dissolving into "being", of "realizing" that everything is love, or connected, or something like that. And of course, noticing ego and how bad it is. The fact that seemingly everyone has this same experience makes it look like it's objective fact...

[Thunder Bow]

It is all about Control. If you kill your ego, you can be easily controlled. So keep your "Ego" and think for yourself, please! That is why you feel so creeped out.

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

It still distresses me. This idea that my sense of Self is somehow a bad thing, an evil thing - and most of all, a false thing. Then again, I more often find myself thinking that the world and everything in it is evil, like everything is just wrong. Yet I don't see how it's possible to have a full life with no ego.

leejosepho had a good point on what generally is meant by some ordinary people when they talk about EGO: "EGO = Edging God Out". In that sense people risk loosing their roots, because it is only ME, ME and ME that is left. Only me is lonely!!!

I can only talk from a Christian perspective, but I'm sure that everybody understand what I mean and will allow me to explain even if they have other views on the "Higher Power"/their spirituality. In the triune God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit cooperates. One of the persons cannot exist without the others. (I mention this to try to show how what spirituality we have chosen inspires us to find meaning in life, not to put my religion upon others. As you will see 'cooperation' is a key-word to my understanding on how to be in the world toward humans and toward God. Others might have found the same value from a different perspective about spirituality).

Let me try to make sense of it. Whether we believe in this or that deity, we have to cooperate if we want to have our planet to continue to exist and to feed us all. If I only listen to my own Ego and that Ego wants to run away from all responsibility to only have fun, that person with that Ego have put itself out of the community. It doesn't commit to the common good for all of us. It does not understand that we are dependent on cooperation to survive.

In psychology the Ego is important (in different traditions), because it contains our will , memory, our intellect, our talents, our feelings and so on.

If your memory is full of old harmful memories, your ego would probably serve you better if you give your memories a less dominant place (let Ego decrease in this sense). If your problems have taken such a big part of your life that you didn't manage to use your talents at school, perhaps your ego would need a growth and that growth you can give it that by taking classes now in your grown up years (let Ego increase).

My interpretation of our obligations toward God is to develop the talents he gave us. If you have talents for music as an example, explore it and decide if this can be your contribution to making the world a good place to be.

The Self (Ego) is not a bad thing. It is complete necessary to develop to survive!

When Christians, Jews and Muslims talk about not having a too big Ego, they usually mean morally: Don't go your own way and cheat on your husband (he will hurt when he finds out), don't go your own way without God and talk behind somebody's back (they can get a not deserved bad reputation).

Generally we speak about a common golden rule across different religions.

The best you can do is to find out what your spirituality "demands" of you, how to live morally good and what goals you want to reach in your life that will not harm others.

Hope these thoughts inspire you to reflect more upon the topic and perhaps can be a tiny little help to you to grow as a person as well (with your own spirituallity).

[Shoe]

Donald Trump once said, show me someone without an ego and I will show you a loser.:-)

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Shoe

Donald Trump once said, show me someone without an ego and I will show you a loser.:-)

Sure, and show me someone with too much of one and we will ultimately see the same.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

So...what to do with a threatened ego? That was where I kept stumbling on all this "ego isn't real and you're better off without it" business. The only reason it feels threatened is because it's inherently false, or something (the feeling being either that or narcissism).

It kills me to talk about it, and I honestly don't want to go into much detail, but I got on this subject while trying to see if anyone shared some of my own... distressed ego experiences.

Also, sorry for the late reply.

[zijax]

I once went to India and lived in an ashram at the Isha Yoga Center with a guru who had all these people in various stages of 'ascension.' They were trying to shed their egos and become 'enlightened' while alive and there was this underlying motivation of pure competitiveness and favoritism for the guru's attention. Everyone was under his spell. We were given secret practices and sworn not to disclose them because others could hurt themselves. It was intensive energy work. I told the guru I had bipolar and he gave me a set of pranyamas and yoga exercizes especially for that and it was 4 hours of practice a day! I did it for awhile and was on no meds and was stable but after awhile it was just too much. I decided I didn't want to be lead around by any one person and I unentangled myself from the organization. He did a death meditation and one lady almost didn't come back, yes, she crossed over and he had to work on her to bring her back. The guru's own wife 'dissolved' into the 'nothingness' because it was so beautiful she didn't want to live anymore. Yes she died. Many strange things happen in India spiritually and they try to kill the ego by 'dissolving.' Part of killing off the ego was transcending likes and dislikes and getting rid of attachments to people, places and things. By doing this it is susposed to create more happiness and well being. The bramyacharas or nuns were happy people and they had nothing. They were just happy. But they were still striving to be egoless so that is still striving. I think Taoism is quite probably most ego free that I have found as far as paths go.

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by zijax

I once went to India and lived in an ashram at the Isha Yoga Center with a guru who had all these people in various stages of 'ascension.' They were trying to shed their egos and become 'enlightened' while alive and there was this underlying motivation of pure competitiveness and favoritism for the guru's attention. Everyone was under his spell. We were given secret practices and sworn not to disclose them because others could hurt themselves. It was intensive energy work. I told the guru I had bipolar and he gave me a set of pranyamas and yoga exercizes especially for that and it was 4 hours of practice a day! I did it for awhile and was on no meds and was stable but after awhile it was just too much. I decided I didn't want to be lead around by any one person and I unentangled myself from the organization. He did a death meditation and one lady almost didn't come back, yes, she crossed over and he had to work on her to bring her back. The guru's own wife 'dissolved' into the 'nothingness' because it was so beautiful she didn't want to live anymore. Yes she died. Many strange things happen in India spiritually and they try to kill the ego by 'dissolving.' Part of killing off the ego was transcending likes and dislikes and getting rid of attachments to people, places and things. By doing this it is susposed to create more happiness and well being. The bramyacharas or nuns were happy people and they had nothing. They were just happy. But they were still striving to be egoless so that is still striving. I think Taoism is quite probably most ego free that I have found as far as paths go.

This post proves how losing ones ego can lead to being controlled by others. This is why it seems so creepy.

[Shoe]

I just finished watching this talk by Russell Targ. In it he mention something from his book, The End of Suffering, where he mentions if you stand in front of a mirror and think that you are the person that you see in the mirror you are in for a lot of suffering.
His talk here is only 30 minutes.

Here is a link to his book just mentioned at amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/End-Suffering...d+of+Suffering

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Shoe

I just finished watching this talk by Russell Targ. In it he mention something from his book, The End of Suffering, where he mentions if you stand in front of a mirror and think that you are the person that you see in the mirror you are in for a lot of suffering.

I found that quite interesting and I have ordered two of his books from here: Russell Targ - Alibris

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by Shoe

I just finished watching this talk by Russell Targ. In it he mention something from his book, The End of Suffering, where he mentions if you stand in front of a mirror and think that you are the person that you see in the mirror you are in for a lot of suffering.
His talk here is only 30 minutes.

I don't think I even need to watch the video to know I disagree. I have tabs open about "nonattachment" at the moment too...I don't see the benefit of nonattachment. Attachment might bring suffering, but it has the potential for so much joy as well. One article tried to argue that nonattachment doesn't mean indifference - then explaining it further with some bull about "unconditional love". I don't buy it. I'll take the lows with the highs.

As to your quote - if you're not the person in the mirror, who are you? There's no one else you can be.

[ImmerAllein]

Originally Posted by Shoe

Donald Trump once said, show me someone without an ego and I will show you a loser.:-)

Donald Trump is not exactly an example to follow, now, is he ?

(I hope not)

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

So...what to do with a threatened ego?

That depends on what parts of your 'Ego' you feel threatened? In my former answer I left, among other, this sentence: "In psychology the Ego is important (in different traditions), because it contains our will , memory, our intellect, our talents, our feelings and so on".

Is it you will, your memory, your intellect, your talents or, as an example, your ability to stay focused without seeing things that not other people can see or hearing things that not other people also can hear?

Since you wrote, "I honestly don't want to go into much detail", please don't feel obliged to answer in public, but please seek treatment if there is something inside or outside you that feels overwhelming!

Good luck!