Sky

Excuse me, Coralproper, but this is an APPRECIATION thread for Sky, not a venue to vent your frustrations with ADMIN issues.

Take your complaints to PM with Doc John. It's against guidelines to hijack a thread and even more so to discuss the decisions that Admin has made!

Cease and desist!!

Tomi, is there a kinder way to say that? Coral is obviuosly having an issue and he has stated again and again he doesnt know where to turn... excuse me please, but is anger any way to treat someone who is searching for help and understanding? i beleive he is looking for peer understanding... is that so wrong?

coral has stated again and again he feels no where to turn... where is the compassion in the angry faces?

i know you are supporting Sky... i have no issue there at all personally, and others here are trying to be all around supportive, so, is the angry face the way you would lead a lost pilgrim?

you are correct tho... this is a much needed support thread for Sky personally...

I'm afraid not, Darrel. Not when someone has set about to hijack a thread that was meant to show appreciation for one of the most intelligent, faithful, caring members of this site who also happens to be one of my dearest friends and mainstay in my life!

Sky isn't the only faithful person here. I am too! I am extremely faithful to Sky as my friend and as my Sister in Jesus. When she is attacked, I am attacked also. When her oppinions are attacked, my opinions are attacked also because we both have the same faith and the same strength in our faith.

Regarless, Coralproper is going against guidelines in various ways. Doc John is already aware of what's going on and this thread stands to be deleted. Who knows. It may be me that causes that deletion because my hackles are up and I have the courage to speak up for what I believe and I say it the way I see it.

This forum is NOT for Bible Study or any other study. It is for support of what anyone already believes. That leaves no room for discusion or debate. Doc John has said that time and again.

Doc John has suggested that people that want to discuss or debate religion can try BeliefNet.com. There are many places where religion can be debated and where any particular belief can be learns. This is not the place!

well... in the spirit of new growth, i am listening to you Tomi : )

You may find it faulty, but I lead by example, both in love and in righteous anger.

the anger part is what concerns me Tomi

There's nothing wrong with righteous anger. Jesus displayed it. It can also be called "strength of my convictions."

sorry you are so angry,september

I did not realize I am in so many vilations,or that I was a highjacker, honestly, heck the person that started the thread did not seem to feel I highjacked her thread

so I will not say no more, and just accept my punishments , whatever they may be

well, hope the thread stays, im finding this very educational... some examples of Jesus anger that come to mind would be how he complained of the profiters in the temples, and then he only attacked the idea of profiting... not the people themselves, those, he forgave...

are you angry because of peoples questioning?

he also said it is those that are sick that need the doctor ( I think ) when he was questioned about eating with the pharases (I think)

sorry, I know I said I will say no more

No, I'm not angry at the questioning. If memory serves me, I either told Coral or someone else that I see Coral as simply searching for answers. But again, the questions lead to debate...

And in answering your question, Darrel, we're taking this tread away from the original intention... again.

{*}{*}{*} Sky {*}{*}{*}

Thank you, Angie!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sky}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

<blockquote>
A few years ago coralproper (and any others who may be interested), there was a movie that came out in regard to how people can clash with each other. Quite often, we're coming from a place of fear when we do that. I thought the movie was absolutely wonderful. There was much in it that I could identify with. It was called

[youtube video] and has become one of my favorite movies of all time.

I can see you're feeling a bit of heat at the moment and perhaps it would be best for you to pull back a bit so you can recenter yourself. When you do so, I would hope you will not sink into self-blame or personal invalidation. You were speaking from your own experience and although the conversation may be challenging in some respects, I didn't see you trying to deliberately hurt anyone.

Anyway, if you're going to slip away for a bit of relax time, I highly recommend that movie as a good way to chill.

Regards.

{*}{*} KathyM {*}{*}
for starting this thread for support, praying we stay on topic

No one is debating religion. They are sharing their feelings with us, and we are trying to provide them with a little compassion and support.

Why do we have to break off into splinter groups? Why do we have to give each other splinters?

This is MY thread and I do NOT want another thread deleted. PLEASE. This is not an argument or debate over religion - just a sharing of feelings.

((Sky)) - for the record, this is MY fault, not yours.

Salukigirl - Sorry you felt you were treated like a dog-ma. They should be treating you like a Saluki-girl.

I also am finding this thread educational (and hope it stays)

Sky

What I mean is it's my fault for opening up the wound of having a thread deleted. I don't want you or anyone here to feel persecuted. It belongs to all of us.

You're still WAAAAAAY smarter than me, and I enjoy reading your contributions here.

i dont think anyone is attacking or anything. whatever happened to sharing opinions? why is it that one person states a opinion and people cant accept that? all of a sudden its always an attack. nobody is accusing or offending or anything.... anyone who sees that is reading way too much into it. i have read every single post just now and don't see anyone being mean or anything. people just see "oh my gosh.... its something different from what i feel, i must fight it!" september - if youre allowed to defend someone then were allowed to defend ourselves. you are totally separate from sky and considering nobody was attacking her, nobody was attacking you.

coral wasnt trying to insult. he was trying to allow sky to examine the way she speaks and possibly grow from this experience. also, he is trying to grow from this experience. the day that you forget the ability to look on yourself is the day you stop growing. instead of becoming defensive, we should all look at the way were treating people in here. when someone says a problem they have with you or what youre doing, look at yourself, not whats wrong with them. if you find something you dont like change it. if you see what theyre talking about but are okay with it, then explain so. but there is absolutely no need to get so angry. support comes in ways other than saying "youre so smart". if you dont tell someone when theyre acting childish, and youre allowing them to be childish and not grow, how is that support? support is helping someone to grow in every way and not accepting criticism is the opposite of that.

you are your own person. youre the one creating the anguish by thinking you and sky are the same person. in a more generalized term, thats considered narcisism. why cant we sit back and say 'you have a problem with the way i responded. im sorry i over-reacted and will try to consider others' feelings before i lash out." several people on here can say that, not naming names.

kathym - i get the pun haha. im glad you know what a saluki is! when we moved down here so I could go to SIU which has the mascot of a saluki, my whole family called me and sai "please explain to me what a saluki is." lol.

Job 26, 27
But Job answered and said, How hast thou helped without power? How savest thou the arm that has no strength? How has thou counselled no wisdom? and has thou plentifully declared the thing as it is? To whom has thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?

Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof. Hell is naked before him, and destruction has no covering.

HE stretcheth out the north over the empty place and hanging the earth upon nothing. HE binds up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them. HE holds back the face of his throne, and spreads his cloud upon it. HE has compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end. The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at His reproof. He divides the sea with his power and by his understanding he smites through the proud. By His spirit he has garnished the heavens; his hand has formed the crooked serpent. Lo, these are parts of His ways; but how little a portion is heard of Him? but the thunder of his power who can undersand?

As God liveth, who has taken away my judgement and the Almighty, who has vexed my soul; all the while my breath is in me, and the Spirit of God is in my nostrils; my lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.

God forbid that I should justify you; till I did I will not remove mine integrity from me. My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go; my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live. Let mine enemy be as the wicked, and he that rises up against me as the unrighteous. For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul? Will God hear his cry when trouble comes upon him? Will he delight himself in the Almighty? Will he always call upon God?

I will teach you by the hand of God: that which is with the Almighty will I not conceal. Behold all ye yourselves have seen it: why then are you thus altogether vain?

could you translate that for me Sky? not sure what you mean as the Bible is open interpretation... am i a dead thing?

(((Sky))))

you know there is a way to believe and not push others away. people change all the time. and religion (or lack thereof) is based on everyone's individual experiences. as you grow older your experiences change so its only natural that your beliefs change too. it really bothers me to see someone claim to be so open and loving but totally ignore anything that doesnt include god. but ive tried my best. if you still refuse to allow anyone elses thinking thats not my problem. im gladly done with this thread and probably the entire "spirituality" forum.

<blockquote>
NW: could you translate that for me...

Hey, it all sounds familiar to me! I think I've got this one nailed...

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...We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
Through the unknown, unremembered gate
When the last of earth left to discover
Is that which was the beginning;
At the source of the longest river
The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple-tree
Not known, because not looked for
But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
Between two waves of the sea.
Quick now, here, now, always—
A condition of complete simplicity
Costing not less than everything...

Source: Little Gidding ~ T.S. Eliott</center>

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... Jung can say that he has never seen a patient past the age of thirty-five who was cured without finding a religious attitude toward life. A religious attitude, understood psychologically, is based on an experience of the numinosium, i.e. the Self. But it is impossible for the ego to experience the Self as something separate as long as the ego is unconsciously identified with the Self. This explains the need for the alienation experience as a prelude to the religious experience. The ego must first be disidentified from the Self before the Self can be encountered as "the other". As long as one is unconsciously identified with God he cannot experience His existence. But the process of ego-Self separation causes alienation because loss of ego-Self identity also involves damage to the self-Ego axis. Hence the typical "dark night of the soul" that precedes the numinous experience. [Ego & Archetype, Page 52]

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The calamaties that precipitiously befall Job are represented in an engraving of William Blake. Above the picture Blake printed the caption, "The Fire of God is Fallen from Heaven". Understood psychologically, the break up of the conscious status quo by an influx of fiery energy from the unconscious. Such an image heralds an individuation crisis, a major step in psychological development which requires that old conditions be destroyed to make room for the new. Destructive or liberating effects may predominate, usually there is a mixture of both. Emphasis on the latter is seen in a picture published in a case study by Jung. In this picture, which began a decisive phase of individuation, the lightning from heaven is blasting a sphere out of its surrounding matrix -- the Self is being born. The tarot card XVI emphasizes the destructive aspect. When the ego is particularly inflated, as represented by the tower, the breakthrough of energies from the Self can be dangerous. The appearance of the Self inagurates a kind of "last judgement". Only that survives which is sound and based on reality.

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With the loss of almost everything to which he attached value, Job is plunged into a state of acute alienation ... If the Self is to be recognized as the supreme value, attachments to lesser values must be destroyed. Job's life meaning was evidently connected to family, property and health. When deprived of these, he fell into despair and entered the dark night of the soul. [Ego & Archetype - Edward Edinger, Page 81]

<font color=blue>...Examplary also is Christ's attitude in the Garden of Gethsemane. "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; neverless, not as I will, but as thou wilt. (Luke 22:42)</font>

This is the classic statement of the ego attitude needed in the face of an individuation crisis. And with such an attitude, support from the archetypal psyche is usually forthcoming. Likewise, the experience of betrayal, which has its ultimate agonized expression in the words: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46) is a characteristic feature of crucial phases of individuation. At such times, the ego feels utterly deprived of comfort and support, both from within and from without. Trust, based on projections and unconscious assumptions, is abruptly terminated. This state is a transition period. It is the limbo of despair following the death of an old life orientation and preceding the birth of a new one. Jesus' resurrection symbolizes the birth of a more comprehensive personality which can result from the conscious acceptance of the cruxifiction ordeal. St. John of the Cross describes the situation in these words:

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It is meet then, that the soul be first of all brought into emptiness and poverty of spirit and purged from all help, consolation and natural apprehension with respect to all things, both above and below. In this way, being empty, it is able to indeed be poor in spirit and freed from the old man, in order to live that new and blessed life which is attained by means of this night, (the dark night of the soul). [Ego & Archetype - Edward Edinger, Page 150]

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The central image of the Christian Myth is the cruxifiction itself. For close to two thousand years the image of a human being nailed to a cross has been the supreme symbol of Western civilization. Irrespective of religious belief or disbelief, this image is a phenomenological fact of our civilization. Hence, it must have something important to tell us about the psychic condition of western man.

The cruxifiction was the culmination of Jesus' earthly life. In the course of being cruxified, Jesus as ego and Christ as Self merge. The human being (ego) and the cross (mandala) become one.


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See also:
- Forms of Spiritual Emergency: Ego Death/The Dark Night of the Soul
- John Weir Perry: Visionary Experience in Myth & Ritual
- The Only Way Out is Through

<blockquote>
salukigirl: im gladly done with this thread and probably the entire "spirituality" forum.

You could always come hang out in the schizophrenia topic.