Spirituality and ego

To me, a need is a need; I guess I wouldn't use your word "favor" as if the requestor is somehow unworthy and bothering the Universe in either wanting or needing something for himself or others?

I think with Omnipresence, etc. the Creator is neither bothered nor unduly taxed by the time we spend and what we speak of/request as opposed to someone else speaking/requesting at the same time something better. I don't picture it like that.

I think it is common for some people to think it is better to ask for others than for one's self but we can only know ourselves and our own lives and problems; we can't truly know what another needs, even if they tell us. We have trouble knowing our own needs from the Universe's viewpoint; we may think or feel we need x but y would be better only we aren't at a place where we can know/see that yet.

So, being even more removed from someone else's situation, if they need y and are asking us to pray for x, we might see/feel they need y but dutifully pray for x since they feel they need x. So our praying for someone else is fraught with even more difficulties and complications than praying for ourselves. Even if we pray for y, thinking we know the other person's situation better than they do (talk about ego!) we can't get an answer to that because it concerns another person and how God is working with another person's soul is not something we get to know first-hand.

But I consider whatever is truly on my heart is what I should be talking to Him about. I would put my own issues first, as I can't really help another with the motes in my eye, until I get them out, then I can consider another. Only insofar as the others' issues impact me and mine would I dare mention them for fear of being told I was off the subject I needed to be concerned about?

((perna)))
"I can't really help another with the motes in my eye"

When i was younger and worked in a nursing home. I found and this is just me that if while i was having a issue. Weather it be at home or in my life was when I found myself the most undrstanding of other ppls needs."or thier pain"

It has followed me all threw my life. The worst things got the more i felt for others.
If I hurt......I never wanted anyone too............so i would pray for I guess everyone......
Never wanted anyone to feel what i did.............
My fav saying is are you ok?
sometimes I say it cause i am not..........
Most times its cause i really care.................
Just my thoughts and i do think i got off track sorry....
muffy

((((((Muffy)))))) we learn compassion for others thru our own struggles. I don't think that is off subject at all. Love and compassion play a great part in what spirituality means to me.

"To love, is to be lovable" and you are certainly lovable!

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recluse1 said:
((((((Muffy)))))) we learn compassion for others thru our own struggles. I don't think that is off subject at all. Love and compassion play a great part in what spirituality means to me.

"To love, is to be lovable" and you are certainly lovable!

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((((((recluse1)))))))))))))))))
Thank you........You have always given me the same. You are a amazing person.

Love and compassion is what helps everyone. You have both of those......my friend...........
muffy

I would say that the type of prayer we use in asking for help for ourselves is the key to whether it is answered or not. A prayer that asks for more wisdom and knowledge and understanding of self or others usually provides us with the type of answer or help we might be in need of.
In helping others silence is good, but if that person still has unmet needs it is ok to tell of what you have done in a non-bragging way to someone else who may be able to fill the rest of that need. It is kind of like that movie that talked about paying it forward. That is a favor done for you translates into you doing favors for others. I believe there is a great blessing in just the good feeling one gets from helping others and seeing that look of thankfulness in their eyes.

Even Jesus prayed for Himself in the garden of Gethsemane, so it can't be that bad. The Lord's Prayer, which Jesus used as an instruction in how to pray, has THREE personal requests outlined, the very FIRST of which is "Give us this day our daily bread," a request for God to fulfill the life needs of the person praying. The next request is for forgiveness, because we all mess up. Then it's for deliverance from the bad things that influence that person to mess up.

Just remember to not "demand" anything from God. He doesn't take well to that. Approach with humility. And always remember that God's plan will be manifest regardless.

Jesus says, "If a son asks his father for bread, will his father give him snakes? No! Then how much more so will your perfect Father provide for you?"

Also, "Ask, and it shall be given unto you," and "If God will provide for the lily of field and the sparrow, then how much more will He provide for his children?"

And of course, "Whenever two people are gathered in my name, I will be among them and hear their prayers."

We're encouraged to pray for ourselves, often. We're also encouraged to ask other people to pray for us. Every person in the Bible who is in God's favor asks Him for something for themselves.

Inserting a gentle reminder:

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DocJohn said:

Hi folks...

The legitimate question was asked about whether people could talk about Jesus here. Well, Jesus is a part of a specific religious belief system, but not others, so no, not as such.

God is allowed, as explained previously, because the idea of a central deity is a key of most mainstream spirituality today. Not all, but most.

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Also, quoting from outside religious sources is discussion of specific religion.

I appreciate the focus remain on spirituality while discussing within the current guidelines for the forum.

I know that everyone might not be aware of the current focus for the forum, so this is just a reminder.

Thanks,

KD

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Perna said:
To me, a need is a need; I guess I wouldn't use your word "favor" as if the requestor is somehow unworthy and bothering the Universe in either wanting or needing something for himself or others?

I think with Omnipresence, etc. the Creator is neither bothered nor unduly taxed by the time we spend and what we speak of/request as opposed to someone else speaking/requesting at the same time something better. I don't picture it like that.

I think it is common for some people to think it is better to ask for others than for one's self but we can only know ourselves and our own lives and problems; we can't truly know what another needs, even if they tell us. We have trouble knowing our own needs from the Universe's viewpoint; we may think or feel we need x but y would be better only we aren't at a place where we can know/see that yet.

So, being even more removed from someone else's situation, if they need y and are asking us to pray for x, we might see/feel they need y but dutifully pray for x since they feel they need x. So our praying for someone else is fraught with even more difficulties and complications than praying for ourselves. Even if we pray for y, thinking we know the other person's situation better than they do (talk about ego!) we can't get an answer to that because it concerns another person and how God is working with another person's soul is not something we get to know first-hand.

But I consider whatever is truly on my heart is what I should be talking to Him about. I would put my own issues first, as I can't really help another with the motes in my eye, until I get them out, then I can consider another. Only insofar as the others' issues impact me and mine would I dare mention them for fear of being told I was off the subject I needed to be concerned about?

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thanks for your very thoughtful reply Perna... in reading it i can only say that God, Creator, Spirit understands what we each need... for example.... if i prayed that God help you, it would be in the understanding that God knows what you need.. i would not pray for a new car for you, or a special birthday present... i would definitely pray for your health tho cause i do believe that God would like us each to have healthy lives...

muffy said:

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((perna)))
"I can't really help another with the motes in my eye"

When i was younger and worked in a nursing home. I found and this is just me that if while i was having a issue. Weather it be at home or in my life was when I found myself the most undrstanding of other ppls needs."or thier pain"

It has followed me all threw my life. The worst things got the more i felt for others.
If I hurt......I never wanted anyone too............so i would pray for I guess everyone......
Never wanted anyone to feel what i did.............
My fav saying is are you ok?
sometimes I say it cause i am not..........
Most times its cause i really care.................
Just my thoughts and i do think i got off track sorry....
muffy

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recluse1 said:

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((((((Muffy)))))) we learn compassion for others thru our own struggles. I don't think that is off subject at all. Love and compassion play a great part in what spirituality means to me.

"To love, is to be lovable" and you are certainly lovable!

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we all are, we all matter ... thank you both



1oxbowgirl said:

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I would say that the type of prayer we use in asking for help for ourselves is the key to whether it is answered or not. A prayer that asks for more wisdom and knowledge and understanding of self or others usually provides us with the type of answer or help we might be in need of.
In helping others silence is good, but if that person still has unmet needs it is ok to tell of what you have done in a non-bragging way to someone else who may be able to fill the rest of that need. It is kind of like that movie that talked about paying it forward. That is a favor done for you translates into you doing favors for others. I believe there is a great blessing in just the good feeling one gets from helping others and seeing that look of thankfulness in their eyes.

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very nicely said (((1oxbowgirl))))

(((ChildOfLight))))

(((KD)))))

I have made a few request that were based on things superfical
that I wanted in the past, Ironicly things usually go the way I request....... Is this good ? I cant say for another person but,
after the fact I always felt quilty, since usually I made promises
that I never kept in order to recieve what I requested.

This is a touchy subject for me, and I have decided to take
any request by me to the other extreme in the future, meaning
I will be carful with what and how I request, since there is so much work to be done that I could focus on nothing but things that need to be adressed that have nothing to do with me, and for some mysterious reason, I have ended up with more than I need despite my selfish requests that seemed to be granted, despite the fact I never held up to my agreements, therfore I feel I need to make up for it somehow

sorry if this is a little cryptic but, it go's so far back its hard to explain

Eddie

how should i respond to this rapunzel?

Sorry, that wasn't to you. I just thought that Child of Light's post was really good, and I'm still sad about the way things are here.

words cannot convey how i wish that you were not sad Rapunzel, or that any of us be sad....

And as I have read through these postings ,,, I learn .

{ This is going to sound odd } Buttttttttt.........

Whereas we walk ,, what is left behind ??? A mear shadow? Or a thought that maybe just one other can hold onto ,, That at a time of stress ? Anger ? or Sorrow .... May ones words hold an abundance of fruit .. yet eaten ,, and/or never tasted >>> It would be for me ,,, the road not so ventured ,, but always another hill to climb ,, in order to see above , another horizon .

Like I said >> Would sound Odd.

WMD .. very deep and moving... one thought is enough at times, to save us in a moment of need...

that makes me more aware of the preciousness of each and every thought...

thank you friend

aw heck WMD... lets hug like women lol (((((((WMD! ))))))

Go to Bed ,,,, and no cookie crumbs >>> oh and No hogging the covers >> sheeesh .. [[[[ man hug ]]]] ...LOL Peace Bro !

I have had a problem with prayer for years......I got to the point where I wondered what the point even was when God was going to do what he wanted anyway....why should I even bother.

Well, since I became really involved in the bible study & the Holy Spirit has provided me with insights that I had ignored for most of my Christian life (which has been 55 years), I decided that I would look into it & see what God really had to say about praying. I came up with some very interesting points that direct us in who, what, when, where, & how to pray.

I have realized that if I follow what God says, eqo has nothing to do with prayer...ego only comes in when we are the ones telling ourselves the who, what, when, where, & how to pray.

Some of the notes on prayer that I found from the Bible (old testement & new):
- God is near whenever we pray to him.
- We should pray for others, for the well being of our leaders, for our friends, pray for peace & prosperity of our city's
- We should pray to god for guidance, where we should go & what we should do.
- Pray for help we need, help to stop sins & ask for forgiveness when we truely mean it

The most fascinating point I found was this:
It's ok to make mistakes with words & attitude while we are suffering even if we are in rage or challenging God as long as we are speaking honestly before God. We are not to mouth beautiful statements without living knowledge of the God we are honoring.

There were several key points I found interesting:
- prayer is to speak TO God & not ABOUT God.
- pray in the quiteness of your room, not on the street corners to be seen by men....when God sees what is done in secret, he will reward you
- Don't babble God doesn't need a lot of words since he knows what you need before you ask him.....he wants to hear that you know that you have needs.

I related to the post about how some teachers can really teach. I have found that to be a successful teacher, you have to KNOW what you are teaching. With knowledge comes insight & you are filled with what you know & usually have a love or passion for it. That is a capable teacher who can then get it across to others & instruct them rather than to preach at them with gentleness. It's the gentle passionate teacher.

I have found that when my ego's get in the way, it blocks all paths & then neither I nor God are willing to listen. It definitely takes humility to put the ego aside & it's not easy, but with prayer, it's possible & I have found out for me, that with God, all things are possible. Praying for the humility & the opening of our heart so that we can accept the insights God has for us everyday is the most important prayer we can pray. With those insights, we can finally find the peace that God wants us to have & he wants to answer our prayers....he wants to have a close relationship with us that only comes with communicating with him.

Debbie

((((((eskielover))))))) Beautifully said!

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coralproper said:
I have made a few request that were based on things superfical
that I wanted in the past, Ironicly things usually go the way I request....... Is this good ? I cant say for another person but,
after the fact I always felt quilty, since usually I made promises
that I never kept in order to recieve what I requested.

This is a touchy subject for me, and I have decided to take
any request by me to the other extreme in the future, meaning
I will be carful with what and how I request, since there is so much work to be done that I could focus on nothing but things that need to be adressed that have nothing to do with me, and for some mysterious reason, I have ended up with more than I need despite my selfish requests that seemed to be granted, despite the fact I never held up to my agreements, therfore I feel I need to make up for it somehow

sorry if this is a little cryptic but, it go's so far back its hard to explain

Eddie

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coral, the point i take from your post more than anything else is that you understand the basic difference between yourself and others in terms of God and praying for understanding and support...

i believe that God speaks to us in the gentlest and kindest ways... maybe that is why a quiet stillness often helps to hear what Spirit wants us to learn...

i also think its true that God knows exactly where we are in the Spiritual journey and knows we all are at a different place in growth and understanding, so in infinite wisdom, is able to minister to us each in exactly the right way that will bring us closer to the truths of Gods' will..

for some, that may be bounty, for others, it may be suffering... i cannot pretend to know the thoughts of God, but some things seems reasonable to assume (forgive me God)

"i believe that God speaks to us in the gentlest and kindest ways...
maybe that is why a quiet stillness often helps to hear what Spirit
wants us to learn...

i also think its true that God knows exactly where we are in the
Spiritual journey and knows we all are at a different place in growth
and understanding, so in infinite wisdom, is able to minister to us
each in exactly the right way that will bring us closer to the truths
of Gods' will.."

A very good answer.(((Nowheretorun.)))))))))
I use to call it god breezes.....he waits till we are ready to hear
them. Sometimes you have to listen very carefully to hear them. But
they are there..............
Sometimes its one word spoken by a stranger. At times a long gentle
sentence from someone you know. At times just a thought or breeze
that blows by you.
I do believe God always knows what we need......truth, honesty, faith
in him and our self's. Love and kindness for one another. As we all
matter.........
I agree he speaks to each one of us at our own place of growth.
"what he feels we can handle" sometimes more than we think. But we
really can handle it......
"i think"
I go back to that blanket prayer thing. I still have a hard time
praying for me. Others come first....................
just the sheeps thoughts
hope i was not off topic
I do believe this. God i think wants truth, love, kindness for all
even animals.......and to know we all matter no matter
what.................

((((((muffy))))))) what a sweet sheep!