[SeptemberMorn]

This is NOT an issue for child discipline. This is Kindness for others in general. Please don't take this post where it isn't intended to go.

The duel role of kindness and confrontation need not be confusing. If you are a mother, surely you are tenderhearted toward your child. Your disposition as a mother is tenderness, but sometimes your child will not respond favorably to tender guidance. On those occasions, you may find that you must activate profit through pain. Thus, a few firm words or a brisk swat on the behind may be in order. What keeps the normal mother from “abusing” her unruly child? Her disposition of tenderness toward that child; a tender heart of love. The disposition of kindness safeguards the dispensing of goodness.

In this concept we see a major reason why God only entrusts the fruit of the Spirit to those filled with the Spirit. You must be yielded to God to be a proper vessel of confrontational goodness. Self cannot be involved; therefore, goodness is never a personal issue, nor a personal platform, nor for personal gain. It is never the means by which we take up for ourselves or pamper our opinions. Remember, good works are always appointed, never assumed. Let’s pray that we have all learned that agathosune, or zeal for the good, is a trust. And we cannot be trusted to do good works until the Word of God does its good work in us. If we cannot accept the teaching, rebuking, correcting and training of God’s Word in our own lives, then we cannot be vessels of teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in other lives. God help us to know the difference.

[SophiaG]

Even though I am a college student without kids, I find this an interesting statement.

To keep one's love for one's child in the forefront of their mind, rather than anger or frustration can only lead to healthy disciplinary action, rather than abuse.

Are you trying to say that Good works are appointed to us through God, rather than US deciding to do good?

And if we cannot learn how to guide our own lives through the Word, then we do not know how to guide others lives in the name of God?

Am I getting this right?

It is not I, but through him that...Spirit inspired things are done?

*is thinking about it*

[sky dancer]

Kindness has nothing to do with God for me. It has to do we how we treat ourselves and others.

It is a state of accepting the truth of how things are.

In the context of parenting, it is shame free parenting.

[SeptemberMorn]

Sophia, I took the above from a study a group of us are doing. Your question

Are you trying to say that Good works are appointed to us through God, rather than US deciding to do good?

To me it means that we are not saved by works that we chose to do because we think they are good, the Good works it's speaking about is when a person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Those are the good works that are appointed to those who believe.

You are right about the other statements you made.

[KathyM]

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

And we cannot be trusted to do good works until the Word of God does its good work in us. If we cannot accept the teaching, rebuking, correcting and training of God’s Word in our own lives, then we cannot be vessels of teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in other lives. God help us to know the difference.

May I ask a "What if" question?

If you were somehow placed in authority over me, knowing what you know of me, how would you describe/explain your credentials and kindness toward me?

Thanks.

[bluenarciss]

To me, kindness is not a matter of any kind of obedience to external influences, including spiritual teachings.

And I don't see why there could be a problem in the fact that behaving kind and caring feels healthy and good to oneself when doing so. Everything has its consequences, and acting "good" can have the rewarding consequences that what's given comes back, a kind of healing circle. That is exactly the benefit of supporting and helping each other and the profit of cooperating.

Children are almost always naturally open to cooperate, and they often have a very fine sense for feeling if someone acts selfishly (and abusively) or with care and selfless kindness.

[SeptemberMorn]

Kathy, I'm not sure about your scenario. If I was your boss, say at a workplace, and you asked me why I was kind, I'd tell you "That's just the way I am." If you pushed it, I'd have to tell you that it's a "consequence" of my faith and beliefs.

[sky dancer]

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

Kathy, I'm not sure about your scenario. If I was your boss, say at a workplace, and you asked me why I was kind, I'd tell you "That's just the way I am." If you pushed it, I'd have to tell you that it's a "consequence" of my faith and beliefs.

I have a bumper sticker that says "My religion is kindness."

[SeptemberMorn]

Kathy, my original response was edited because I mentioned the name of my faith. I'm sure you know what it is.

[SeptemberMorn]

Sky Dancer... the meaning of the word "religion":

religion

• a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"

[KathyM]

SM

I didn't mean to confuse you. I thought you already knew I am completely disabled, terminally ill, and going blind. My working days are over. I was referring to having to place my entire life in your hands, possibly in an institutional setting. Knowing I don't necessarily subscribe to your beliefs, how would you define "kind" and how would you display your kindness toward me?

[sky dancer]

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

Sky Dancer... the meaning of the word "religion":

religion

• a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"

Why are you giving the definition to me? You're not trying to pick a fight, are you?

According to this definition you offered, I ought to be able to mention the name of the type of meditation I do and not have it censored.

It is not 'religious' based on any 'supernatural powers controlling human destiny.'

[SeptemberMorn]

Originally Posted by KathyM

SM

I didn't mean to confuse you. I thought you already knew I am completely disabled, terminally ill, and going blind. My working days are over. I was referring to having to place my entire life in your hands, possibly in an institutional setting. Knowing I don't necessarily subscribe to your beliefs, how would you define "kind" and how would you display your kindness toward me?

I know your disabilities, Hon. You made mention of my somehow me being in a position of authority over you so I went with what came to mind first since you didn't specify.

Knowing that you and I don't always agree, I wouldn't make mention of my faith. I would show you kindness just like I mentioned above. If you're thinking I might confront you with something as a for of being kind, I would do it only for your own physical well-being and I would use the most tender tone of voice that would be appropriate.

If you need more specific answers, then ask me more specific questions as long as I don't have to mention my faith. It will only be "moderated."

[SeptemberMorn]

Originally Posted by sky dancer

Why are you giving the definition to me? You're not trying to pick a fight, are you?

According to this definition you offered, I ought to be able to mention the name of the type of meditation I do and not have it censored.

It is not 'religious' based on any 'supernatural powers controlling human destiny.'

If I was going to pick a fight or start an argument, I would have done it in response to your PMs. All I was trying to do is clarify what the word actually means. Nothing more, nothing less. Kindness is not a religion.

While I'm clarifying the meaning to words that are thrown about in this forum, let me say that "spirituality" is one's connection to God, not one's practices in different forms of meditation. Many faiths practice different forms of mediation. Groups like yours also practice meditation. Meditation is a practice. It wasn't I that made the decision what can be said here and what can't. Those of my faith and belief were quite heavily persecuted in one form or another just about a year ago, right before our Holy holiday of Easter/Resurection Sunday. THEY won in that we are ALL censored here in this forum. So why are you singaling me out?

Like I said before, if you want to discuss your practices and what they are called, please do start a Social Group of your own. I know there are several other people on this board that practice what you practice. No one will bother or censor you there.

Those of my faith have truly found a "sanctuary" in our Social Group. I hope you can find yours, too.

[Rhapsody]

I personally don't feel that kindness is only grounded in religion or religious beliefs, therefore, one faith should not be a factor in how a person treats other people.... many atheist are kind at heart (and) I as a person was kind to others long before I found my connection to God - my high power.

Kindness is a Sate of Mind -
A Choice... given by a Warm & Caring Heart... men & women, children & teenagers, adults and elders.

I feel that we all can get along IF we are but only KIND to each other.

[sky dancer]

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

If I was going to pick a fight or start an argument, I would have done it in response to your PMs. All I was trying to do is clarify what the word actually means. Nothing more, nothing less. Kindness is not a religion.

While I'm clarifying the meaning to words that are thrown about in this forum, let me say that "spirituality" is one's connection to God, not one's practices in different forms of meditation. Many faiths practice different forms of mediation. Groups like yours also practice meditation. Meditation is a practice. It wasn't I that made the decision what can be said here and what can't. Those of my faith and belief were quite heavily persecuted in one form or another just about a year ago, right before our Holy holiday of Easter/Resurection Sunday. THEY won in that we are ALL censored here in this forum. So why are you singaling me out?

Like I said before, if you want to discuss your practices and what they are called, please do start a Social Group of your own. I know there are several other people on this board that practice what you practice. No one will bother or censor you there.

Those of my faith have truly found a "sanctuary" in our Social Group. I hope you can find yours, too.

"Kindness is my religion." The essence of my religion is kindness. I'm not mentioning anything specific to a particular path. I'm describing the essence of many paths--the practice of kindness, the practice of patience, the practice of sympathetic joy, the understanding of wisdom.

These are within the domain of human experience, and human spirituality--regardless of specific religion.

One needs no special 'holy days' to practice patience, kindness, clarity, compassion and wisdom. Atheists can practice these too. These are universal and within the ken of all beings.

As to references to the PM's, I must have misunderstood. I offered to no longer write to you privately, but you encouraged me. Was I mistaken? If you don't want to post with me or discuss things privately I am quite happy to leave you be.

[SeptemberMorn]

Sky Dancer, it is you who has brought up the subject of argument, not I. I'm more than willing to get to know you as a friend. I don't see the necessity for being on the defensive. I'm not the kind of person that pushes my beliefs on anyone. I either lead by example or I state what my beliefs are and wait for others to ask more questions, if they are interested.

When I said to you that you didn't have to leave me alone, what I was doing is walking the walk of my beliefs. They are what we call the fruit of the Spirit which is love (agape, Divine love), joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. These become evident in a person's life that has the Spirit.

You are free to make your own decisions about me. You can either keep talking to me or... not. It's totally up to you. I will welcome peaceful communication with you.

[sky dancer]

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

Sky Dancer, it is you who has brought up the subject of argument, not I. I'm more than willing to get to know you as a friend. I don't see the necessity for being on the defensive. I'm not the kind of person that pushes my beliefs on anyone. I either lead by example or I state what my beliefs are and wait for others to ask more questions, if they are interested.

When I said to you that you didn't have to leave me alone, what I was doing is walking the walk of my beliefs. They are what we call the fruit of the Spirit which is love (agape, Divine love), joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. These become evident in a person's life that has the Spirit.

You are free to make your own decisions about me. You can either keep talking to me or... not. It's totally up to you. I will welcome peaceful communication with you.

SeptemberMorn-

Please try and see things from my point of view. The topic of kindness is universal. It is not the domain of any single spiritual path or religious tradition. It is a practice or attitude toward other human beings and can be practiced by atheists and non-theists.

Try and use some universal language when you speak to others. It really helps. The term you use 'Agape' is specific to Christianity.

agape definition: (Christian theology) the love of God or Christ for mankind
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn -

I enjoy discussing love, compassion, joy, equanimity, generosity, patience, concentration, kindness and wisdom. These are universal topics and they are not the sole province of any specific religion.

They are qualities of human potential that are within every being.

What is difficult in making a forum inclusive to all, and I understand increasingly why specific terms that identify one's personal tradition are verboten is that unless the interest is inter-relgious dialogue--which is not what this forum is about--someone will feel excluded.

It is in the very nature of some specific religous paths to include proselytizing. Not in mine, perhaps not in yours, but I see it in some others. The folks that come walking up to my door. I do not come walking up to their doors to push my spiritual views on them, but when they knock, I am happy to see them, and I graciously appreciate them even though I don't have to buy what they sell.

From my side, that they think their path exclusively is the answer to all human beings ignores how different we all are in what works for us. I'm glad there are so many religious paths and spiritual points of view. That way there is something for everyone, whether a 'believer' or not.

My T's have always supported me in my spiritual practices. They are always holistic--it's part of my screening of them. And the two I have worked with have been skilled and wonderful.

[Lenny]

That is the Spirit this forum's banner blazes...Patience, Tolerance, Love and Acceptance,,not necessarily in that order...

You both have offered the olive branch in this Spirit...

In the 6 billion plus souls that march upon each day there is bound to be disparaging views of the universe but that there is a connection between the hopes, dreams and desires of something better is without arguement...

Kindness, I believe is one of the many keys to heaven whether it abounds upon the breathing or etheral...

IMHO.

Lenny

[cantstopcrying]

***Sigh*** Plunging in where I will probably regret and be monitored, but I have to say this. This is the "Sanctuary for Spiritual Support". Every time two of these posters post in the same forum, it never feels like a sanctuary...it feels like sparks could fly at any moment. Obviously there is some history here, but it scares me and makes me uncomfortable. I enjoy hearing what everyone has to say, I love the topic of kindness, but where is the support? Where is the sanctuary? Honest to God, I cry when I read threads that have posts by two of the contributers here because there is such tension underlying it. "So don't read them" would be the obvious answer, but I don't know until I've already read. Anyway, I just would like to ask if please, at least in this forum, can we try to keep the challenges and bitterness and venom out? I really don't want to take any pm's on this, so please honor that. Thank you all for the thought provoking ideas and such brought forth.

[Rhapsody]

Originally Posted by sky dancer

The topic of kindness is universal. It is not the domain of any single spiritual path or religious tradition. It is a practice or attitude toward other human beings and can be practiced by atheists and non-theists.

I think we all agree to this fact (including you & sm), therefore, may we all let what has been be gone and move forward with with KINDNESS...

[sky dancer]

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

I think we all agree to this fact (including you & sm), therefore, may we all let what has been be gone and move forward with with KINDNESS...

Exactly. Kindness is universal. I think there is a good reason that terms specific to certain paths are not encouraged in this forum.

It doesn't matter how you get there--into kindness--it's just important to be kind.

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by sky dancer

it's just important to be kind.

And to birth it in others it must be first recognised,,and to be recognised it should be displayed...without expectation..



Lenny

[SeptemberMorn]

I don't remember ever posting to Sky Dancer other than on my Kindness thread. You aren't the only one that is becoming uncomfortable with the back and forth. I'm done with it.

[SeptemberMorn]

Lenny, here is my explanation for having posted. It just seems that some choose to argue with certain members. There's a disposition of taking offense simply because it comes from a particular member. In this case it was simply because I mentioned "God" which is acceptable in this forum.

So be it. Good things came from it.

I did not post my Kindness post here or anywhere else to start any kind of debate. My heartfelt purpose was to show everyone in general and no one in particular that "support" as well as "kindness" DOES include gentle confrontation. It isn't showing anyone a kindness to allow them to continue in wrong thinking or in wrong action or without suggesting that they get professional help.

Period. The end.