Speaking of Controversial...

I think there is a danger of that kind of attitude being present within the wider psychiatric community, too. I know it was a number of years ago when I had closer direct contact with it.

I dare say that it still exists in parts of that community -- one example being E.F.T., for instance.

I think its terrible the amount of predjudice in the world about mental illness and its treatment. I also think its terrible to not be able to speak your mind. It shouldn't matter if everyone agrees with what's being said. I find I enjoy your posts SE . If that site made such a big fuss over promoting hope they are not worth your time. I never joined that site and now I'm glad I didn't.
Treatment is such a complex thing. What works for one doesn't work for all but I think everyone should be aware they have options of how to deal with psychosis . Myself I didn't use meds to control it until about a year ago and I take a lot of heat for that but I did use therepy. Guess what? I got better without meds. I improved. What changed for me in getting the meds was how much my daily world was being affected by my symptoms. In short I was in a downward spiral and all my tricks and tips didn't work. I am now doing very well on light doses of two antipsychotic meds. I still use therepy because it works but I don't claim that any method is better than any other and I don't ever recall you doing so. Please keep posting. don't let a few ignorant /arrogant people stop you
Kayti

In a rare blog entry I made the other day I noted...

Hope is something that is integral to healing. You can't do something unless you first believe it can be done.

I am now doing very well on light doses of two antipsychotic meds. I still use therepy because it works but I don't claim that any method is better than any other and I don't ever recall you doing so. Please keep posting. don't let a few ignorant /arrogant people stop you.

Thank you for your kind words kaytibear. I agree that the best form of treatment is always going to be the one that works for that specific individual; there are a number of options to choose from. Retaining or regaining the ability to make our own decisions is also an act of empowerment that contributes to recovery. I'll gladly continue to post here and elsewhere about schizophrenia/psychosis and recovery ... but I also know to choose my environments wisely too.

~ Namaste

pachyderm: I think there is a danger of that kind of attitude being present within the wider psychiatric community, too. I know it was a number of years ago when I had closer direct contact with it. ... I dare say that it still exists in parts of that community -- one example being E.F.T., for instance.


Some personal reflections on E. Fuller Torrey...

Quite some months ago I had the opportunity to be on a psyche ward. Not just any psyche ward but a psyche ward reserved for the "most ill" -- the kind where you might be for years, where other people rarely visit, and you need a security guard if you want to brush your teeth because everything, including the patients, are under lock and key.

On that ward was a woman. I never met her, but you could hear her -- day after day (and apparently, night after night, too) moaning and wailing. She was in a room with large windows that more often than not were draped. Whenever staff entered that room, they'd first don an outfit that suggested the woman inside carried the Ebola virus. She didn't though. She just couldn't stop sh;tting on herself, and sometimes, in protest, she'd smear the sh;t all over the place.

Usually when she wailed it was because her bowels had, once more, done something she hadn't intended them to do and she'd call out, through the glass walls of her room for someone from the nursing station to come and help her. Some nurses were nicer than others and they'd respond quickly. Other nurses (and sometimes, patients too) would call back that she should "Shut up!" and they'd make her wait. Aside from that, no one ever really saw her because she was always locked in her room and the nurses would always draw the curtains when they entered.

I remember being in the common area one day when the woman in the room caught my eye. A nurse had entered her room and forgotten to pull closed the drapes that the woman must have opened. The woman was sitting on her bed and she raised one hand, smiled at me and waved. I almost felt as if she was saying, "Hey -- you! Can you see me in here? Can you see beyond these glass walls and all this sh;t to the person that I am, that I once was?"

And then, because I thought I could -- I raised my arm in reply, smiled, and waved back.

A few days later, I was in the common room once more and I saw the woman's psychiatrist approach her room. I recall watching as he reached into his pocket and then, with clinical precision, inserted one of the many keys on his chain into the lock. He quickly stepped into the room, pulling the door closed behind him. More wailing and complaining could be heard. Then, I watched as he exited the room and once more, with that same cold and clinical precision, he locked her away, alone, cut off from the rest of the human race. I remembered her raised hand, that tenative wave, the look in her eyes... In that moment, I felt a wave of fury pass over me.

E. Fuller Torrey's sister experienced her first psychotic break after her father died. I experienced mine when my mother died. Her brother remains convinced it was his sister's cat that was the sole cause of the misfortune. I remain convinced it was multiple losses as combined with trauma that was the cause of mine.

I still think of that woman. I wish I'd asked her psychiatrist if he'd ever bothered to explore the connections between neuroleptic malignant syndrome and lack of bowel control. Meantime, E. Fuller Torrey remains a popular and controversial figure in psychiatry but I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be E. Fuller Torrey's sister and what she might have said about everything -- if she'd ever had the opportunity to do so.


See also: Presumed Causes of Schizophrenia and Psychosis: Cat Poop

This is an interesting thread that I have been following. E. J. Kempf wrote a paper about schizophrenia back in 1948. It has been posted on the net but I can't paste the link because I haven't made enough post here yet. Kempf uses the terms "social recovery" and "social recovery with insight" and "psychological miracles" in his paper on schizophrenia.

Regards ~ Shoe

As an update: The site mentioned above now has a new moderating team and a new set of community guidelines that emphasizes the need for respectful, compassionate and ethical treatment within the community.

It's always to be understood that individual members may not see eye to eye but I'm hopeful that I never again have to hear from anyone who has experienced abuse as a result of moderator actions or to have to experience it again for myself.

Kindness. It's not rocket science.

~ Namaste

Spiritual_emergency,

I wrote a long post that got eaten (accidentally erased)...... so I'm going to make this one short and sweet. I'm sorry you had so many probs with the mods. I too have had to deal with both over-policing and under policing by mods- some allowing people to bully others on site and even bullying themselves or at least turning a blind eye to those who do, even when they have def. noticed, and some mods being very strict about not allowing any diff. opinions on site (even if not offensive), or at least being condescending to those who express alternate views. I think it is very dismissive to assume just because someone has schizophrenia, they are automatically being delusional about recovery, etc. As for whether schizophrenia is curable, I don't know if it currently is or not, but I won't deny the possibility. I am reminded of how people once thought BPD was incurable, but now it is known that it is curable, yet some people in the psych community still refuse to believe this. Hopefully your new mod team will be more respectful.

~Locust

Hello Locust,
I think that site is trying to improve. They did bring in one new mod and they also seemed less inclined to interfere. However, some of the same behaviors have still continued. Recently, a number of people have left that site which is what they should do if they're not happy there. There are a number of alternate support sites on the net, psych central being but one of them.

As far as schizophrenia being curable -- if you examine the evidence it's apparent that a number of people recover but for some reason, this information isn't widely shared. I'm not sure why that is but at that site at least, the concerns seemed to revolve around the idea that if people knew other people had made full recoveries, they'd go off their meds. There seems to be a great deal of fear surrounding this issue as coupled with an expectation that medications not only work the same for everyone but that absolutely everyone must be on them. This too, is also not true. Although many people identify them as helpful many others also find they can continue to function well at a reduced level (this helps reduce the risk of harmful side-effects) whereas some can function well without them at all.

Meantime, this site remains one of the ones I recommend to others because they have much healthier moderation policies and a much wider perspective.

Much thanks for sharing your perspective. Some sites are healthier than others.

~ Namaste

First off, I'm happy that I never joined schizophrenia.com
It seems like it is a real pain in the arss. I have only been diagnosed with PS for a couple months now, and I have been researching my condition. I certainly don't want to offend anyone with my ignorance, but I recall reading that one of the main symptoms is that the person believes others do not like them. I'm not saying this is a symptom in you guys, but that was my first thought. I have also read that a person's schizophrenia can be in remission, but one may suffer from relapses. I also have anxiety disorder, so I am very anxious just writing this.I almost hit cancel like 3 times. I really don't want to offend anyone or anything. I just have to say what I feel. Thanks for the heads up about that other web site. I will make sure not to go there.

Sincerely,

Sardean

You'll have to make your own decision in terms of whether or not you should participate there, sardean. If you go back to the beginning of this thread and also read the blog posts I made on the matter -- that provides you with a portion of my experience but that doesn't mean your experience will be the same. Meantime, there was also a poll that the site founder ran wherein I expressed my own objections quite clearly:

It's only fair to say I knew the moderators had a history of targeting individals if they didn't comply with the predominant belief structure. I'd already had a brief encounter with that site and I'd heard from a number of others who'd also been targeted in some fashion and deeply distressed by it. What I didn't anticipate was that the moderators would be so direct and open about those behaviors. One newcomer to the site observed that no one even seemed to notice, it was that commonplace.

The site founder did later acknowledge that it was inappropriate for one of his moderators to repeatedly follow me from post to post and label me as "Nasty Namaste" but when it was pointed out to him that those actions constituted the legal definitions of harassment and those posts were considered legal evidence, he promptly erased all evidence of the harassment.

In spite of the above, some of us did attempt to help create a more open and supportive environment there for a period of time. We recognized that people were making valuable peer connections and the best thing that could happen would be for the site to continue to provide that opportunity to them, albeit with a different moderator attitude in place. Unfortunately, the same behaviors continued to occur although not from the new moderator that had been put in place.

At this time, the discussion areas of that site have been inaccessible for a week. There have been times in the past when its been down for as long as a month. At the point it's accessible once more you certainly could go there if you wanted. As for me, I can talk with peers here or at several other different sites -- it's not necessary that I tolerate abuse to do so. Neither should it be necessary for anyone else.

I have also read that a person's schizophrenia can be in remission, but one may suffer from relapses.

Ahhh, that may be worthy of a new topic, sardean. Meantime, I hope you don't feel anxious for speaking your mind. You did so respectfully, you did so with civility and quite honestly, I think people should be able to say what's on their minds provided they do not resort to attack and abuse.

~ Namaste