My son has been arrested

Thanks, vertebrae. I do have excellent coping skills, but even I'm stretched to the limit at this point.

Sorry you're worried.

Take care yeah

My son took a Zyprexa last night before bed. My mom reports today that he's "not doing well." She says he seems depressed and is talking about moving away to a distant city where we have no connections. He sometimes gets into these wanderlust moods.

Mom wants him out of there, but I'm still waiting to hear from the mhc about temporary housing.

Hang in there! My brother is on zyprexa and it took a few weeks for his medical team to figure out the right dosage. He is now the most like his "pre-break-out" self that he has EVER been, it's almost as if it never happened. I have huge hopes for your son!

Zyprexa has definitely been the best of the meds he's taken - from my point of view. I don't think he likes it because it makes him sleep a lot.

I hope the medication will be a temporary thing to help deal with the current crisis.

Costello I was thinking about your situation and came up with this. You know all the things you told us your son said? Well could it be that his actions were a result of past experiences that came into his mind that have nothing to do with you but merely had popped up into his mind as bad memories he was reliving as real and present? And he had flash backs of these bad memories and they came up right when the dish situation occured? Right now my knowledge of sz is growing but limited but from what i`ve read sz caused confusion, between the real and unreal and delusions and paranoia to become one muddled brain burb (sorry for the icky phrase) but reason I said that is because all those delusions, actions and words may swirl around and around and come rushing out with a huge spontaneous force of verbal and nonverbal behavior. If anyone with reads this, am I on track with my knowledge of sz or way off base? Im try to understand this thing.

Hi SakuraLi:

From what I can gather, no one really knows what causes sz, but that doesn't stop people saying they do. This is my understanding of what people are saying:

To simplify matters, there are two camps right now.

The stronger camp - because it's backed by drug companies who make a huge profit from these meds - is the medical model. They say sz is a brain-based disease, a "broken brain." They compare it to diabetes and say people dx'd with sz need medication like diabetics need insulin. This is a false analogy, because my son isn't suffering from a Zyprexa deficiency the way a diabetic is suffering from an insulin deficiency.

On the other side are people who say sz is caused by trauma of some sort. (I'm oversimplifying.) There are a variety of traumas - physical, emotional, spiritual, etc. - which are thought to lead to the distress which manifests in "symptoms" of sz.

So to answer your question, if you believe the medical model, you'll probably believe that the hallucinations and delusions are random, meaningless thoughts and images produced by a diseased brain. Service providers who take that view have no interest in the content of the psychosis. Some even say it's dangerous to encourage too much discussion. The only question is: are you experiencing psychosis? Never: what do the voices say?

The other side is more interested in the contents of the psychosis. From my point of view my son's psychotic experiences have symbolic meaning. Therapy for him should include, in my opinion, some investigation into the meaning behind his experiences.

I think of it as being a bit like dreams. I think there's meaning in some of my dreams. Others seem totally random to me. I remember years ago I had a dream I was having sex with one of my coworkers. It was clear to me when I woke up that it didn't mean I wanted to have sex with her. Rather I was facing a difficult challenge at that time and I perceived her as having the kind of strength I would need to deal with it.

I doubt my son was having flashbacks, but I do believe he was under a bit of distress because of the dish washing thing and he ran it through his filters and came back with a story that seems bizarre to us but justified him, in his mind, in hitting me.

You have to admit the images of a mother chewing on a dirty tampon and asking her adult son for sex are almost, well, Freudian. I wonder what Jung would have made of it.

The latest updates:

My mother reports my son didn't take the Zyprexa last night. He says he threw it away.

I spoke with the DA and they're not pursuing charges against my son largely because I don't want them to. They'll be lifting the no contact order this afternoon. So he can come home tonight.

Now I have to decide what I need to do to keep myself safe.

Perhaps take self defense classes? Perhaps get a new door for your bedroom installed to lock him out if need be. anyways good luck

That's an idea!

Costello,

My heart goes out to you. I'm in a similar situation. My son has never hit me or hurt me, but sometimes when he's really paranoid he looks at me as if he would do something to hurt me. I think anything could happen when he's psychotic and doesn't have a grip on anything. I know the voices are derogatory and tell him to do things. He won't talk about anything..... anyway I didn't mean to hijack your thread. What's going on with you and him now, I think it's been a couple months since your initial posting (if you don't mind me asking).

bcuz

Hi, bcuz. I don't mind your asking. In fact, it's nice that people are interested.

My son has had a hard time maintaining housing since being removed from my house. Jail to my mom's house, to mhc housing, to the hospital, back to mhc housing, to a motel, and currently in a hospital.

The plan is for him to come back to my house when he's released from the hospital. I've arranged for him to see a new psychiatrist and therapist in private practice. I'd like to end our association with the mhc, because it's not been helpful and I feel it's raised additional problems.

He's on Zyprexa which isn't clearing up his thoughts as quickly as I would have hoped. He says he'll continue taking the Zyprexa when he gets to my house. Of course, he's made such promises before.

I hope he'll be home before his 26th birthday which is March 21. And I hope he'll maintain on the medication while we try to find alternatives. He just hates meds, and I believe he'll discontinue them within 6 months, possibly much sooner.

Hi Costello,
I don't know if this would help, but my son gets a shot every 2 wks of Risperdol Consta. I'm attempting to get his shot changed to Invega which is given monthly. It seems many people can take the shots alone and be ok (as you know, an injection given monthly ensures compliance). Unfortunately my son requires other meds as well, which makes it more difficult for him to maintain compliance. Maybe this could be an option for your son. Insurance companies will argue that the shots are too expensive, but the flip side of that, is, repeated hospitalizations due to noncompliance is way more costly. Good luck, let me know what happens. I hope your son has a wonderful 26th b-day.
Take care,
bcuz p.s. You or other family members can be taught to give an injection to make things a little easier( if needed).

I can directly relate to a lack of desire for meds. Honestly, I'm fiercely against the idea of them.

One can say that my brain is "damaged" or "diseased" until they're blue in the face, but trading psychotic symptoms for lethargy, slowed cognition or any other number of "side effects" is nonsense. Funny, they call it a side-effect when it's drug-induced, but it's a symptom in any other circumstance. Something about that offends me deeply.

Aside from my wife, this is one of the very few places where I've met anyone who even attempted to understand my experiences. Granted, I don't expect anyone anywhere to really make sense of it (I don't always make sense of it), but that's not the point - the point is, having an ear that really means to hear what I have to say helps me more than any drug I've ever had pushed on me. True, it doesn't stop the episodes, and only helps in coping with the aftermath, but really...drugs seem to be a substitute for the very same thing, and they do a dreadfully shoddy job of it.

Costello, I've spent the last few months here trying to see things from the other side of the equation, and I imagine it's as hard for me to grasp your struggle as a parent as it must be for said parents to see what happens to people like me. In those rare, quiet moments, I find myself overwhelmed with guilt about it. All this time, I'm trying to make sense of thoughts I can't control, feelings I don't understand, and keep grasping for straws like a drowning man looking for driftwood - it's terrifying. What doesn't cross my mind in those moments is how those around me must be doing the same thing, and how much stress and pain it causes them to have to try and deal with me. I've found myself over the years trying to warn people I know that psychotic episodes are a reality of dealing with me, and they just nod and smile. ...until I have one, of course. On to the next batch of friends, rinse and repeat. But if I can't even adequately explain to them (or myself) what's going on in my head, how can I possibly expect them to accept it?

I love my family, I really do. I know they care, but I also know that they don't understand what's wrong with me, and avoid the topic at every possible opportunity. Sometimes, the normality helps. Sometimes, it's rather hurtful. I'm sure it hurts for them too, to have to face something they really don't understand. I wish I could alleviate them of that, but that isn't possible.

Doctors terrify me. The drugs they push terrify me. Everything I've experienced in the medical community (in psychiatry, at least) tells me that they see me as nothing more than another guinea pig to test their latest poison on. They don't care what I think, or how I think - my so-called "damaged" state gives them free reign and clear conscience to use me like some kind of living litmus test. I have choice words for that, but I won't sully this board with them. What I hope I'm making clear (and I have a feeling I'm not alone) is that there is usually a reason I fight these treatments, these visits, and I think my reasons are shared by others. I don't want to rebel against authority or hurt my family any more than anyone else does, but I don't want to feel like I'm just a drug sponge either, viewed through the filter of "well, his life is basically over anyway, let's see what this does!"

I don't know you personally, and I won't insult you by suggesting that I have even the faintest idea what your situation is, or what you're going through with your son. My only hope is to try and convey some kind of sense into how my thoughts work, and on the off-chance that he and I share anything in common, maybe it will help.

My thoughts are with you during this tough time. Is it possible to give him medication by injection so he can't throw them away? You did the right thing calling the police when he hit you and should continue to call if the behavior continues. Good Luck with the new T and pdoc. I hope it helps you and your son!

Risperdal doesn't work for my son, but more importantly I'm not into forcing treatments he doesn't want. Since I stopped pushing meds on him, our relationship has improved dramatically. Unfortunately I'm going to have to go back into drug pusher mode, because I'm not interested in having him living with me while he's floridly psychotic. It's not the psychosis that worries me so much as the risk of his hitting me again.

I want him to understand that I'm not saying he has to take medication, but that he has to take medication for the time being, if he wishes to live in my home. We're looking into alternatives and have a new pdoc who is willing to work on actively seeking out alternatives.

Hi ER: You have described my son's views precisely. At least as I understand them. I wish you and he could sit and talk. I'm trying very hard to assist my son without medications. I'm up against so many barriers, though.

First, there's the nature of his problem - illness, distress, whatever you want to call it. BTW, I don't buy into the "diseased brain" model either. I'm willing to sit with it and let it be, but unfortunately he hit me and I can't have that. He also is unable or unwilling to assist me in seeking solutions other than meds.

Second, there's the mental health system (or the "mental illness industry" as Ed Knight calls it. ) I'm pretty pushy and have pulled out all my advocacy skills in trying to channel the mental health people into a direction that will be more helpful for my son, but they're a formidable opponent.

Third, there's a lack of resources - time and money. I work full time, and my son creates a constant series of problems as he wanders through life. There's always a fresh legal or financial fire to attend to. I was hoping the case manager could help in this area, but he's supervised by the most inflexible, rigid, unimaginative woman I've ever had the misfortune to encounter. She's the reason I just spent 3 weeks trying to extricate my son from the state hospital. The case manager called me after it was a done deal and told me frankly that he was going there because he had nowhere else to live - not because he was a danger to himself or others. So as far as I'm concerned, the case manager is off the team.

Fourth, there's a whole culture which is intolerant of difference, is scared of psychosis, and wants a quick, immediate, decisive "fix" for whatever ails my son.

I wish I could have all of the above with me not against me. The only thing I can think to do is to try and recruit my son, and to do that he's going to have to be less psychotic than he's been over the last six months or so. I was hoping his thinking would clear up a little. On the contrary he's got markedly worse. He's nearly unreachable right now. If we lived in a culture that would give him space to be calmly psychotic and see how this plays out, that would be great. And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. I have to fight this battle in the world the way it really is, not the world I would hope for.

Perfectly understandable. I would expect someone to call the police if I ever assaulted them, no matter who it was. Just because we occasionally have trouble dealing with polite society doesn't mean that polite society suddenly stops working on our behalf.

Genuinely helpful people in the medical field seem to be a rarity when they should be the norm. It's unfortunate.

That's terrible. I could understand if they honestly thought it would somehow help him, but this naturally leads into:

...which is the single greatest obstacle anyone in this situation faces, whether patient or caretaker. Ours is a culture of conformity and instant gratification, and not enough people realize just how long treatment/recovery can take for anything, not just neurological disorders. I remember when my appendix ruptured, and after the fact the doctors told me I should be on bed-rest for no less than 2 months. Within 2 weeks, my father was fuming about my lack of employment. I know he meant well, but it's a prime example of what I mean - we as a people want a fix now, and woe betide whoever/whatever rocks the boat. :/

A familiar environment should help some with that, I think. Nothing drives me off the edge faster than being in a place/situation I have no control over, and so I view forceful internment in an institution as the ultimate expression of a personal hell.

I can say with all honesty that you amaze me as a person though. Rare and few are those who truly advocate, and it's a tough battle even with support. Hopefully one day, there will be better tools in place to assist. Until that time comes, people like yourself are the greatest heroes we have.

On a related note:

If you like, we could exchange contact info in a PM.

I told my son you'd be willing to talk to him. I'll let you know if he decides to take you up on it.

I feel a little sick right now. He was released from the hospital today. He agreed to take the Zyprexa. Tonight when I got it out and asked him to take it, he was so distressed. I felt mean insisting he take it. He said it would kill him. He just started acting so upset.

We had a very frank discussion about meds versus psychosis. He said he didn't mind being psychotic; it's the people around him that are bothered. I mentioned my concern that he would hit me again. He promised he wouldn't, but I don't trust that he can control himself.

I have to say, honestly, that I like the son that came back from the hospital better than the one that left here in January. He's more considerate - smoking outside without being asked, offering to do the dishes, etc. He seems to be more focused and aware. He wants to take a drafting class, and even got on the Internet and filled out an application as soon as we got home.

I don't want to lose this son, watch him sink back into psychosis. But I also don't want to have this scene twice a day where I feel like a monster forcing a pill on him. And I promise you in the very near future he'll simply refuse to take the medication. Then I'll have to decide what I'm going to do about it. Will I let him stay here or will he have to leave? And where would he go?

This is really awful.

I can only say what I tell myself on a daily basis: "One step at a time, one day at a time." We can't fret over what could be, only focus on what is.*

Here's hoping for the best, costello. ^_^

*Edit: ...however hard that may be at times.

........and I say to myself over and over again at night......."Give it to the universe.........give it to the universe". I'm living the life with my son very much like the one you described with yours'. It's all slipping away.......mine and my son's. An unending nightmare. Costello......I truly wish you and your son can be pulled to a better place than we are in. Thinking of you......grey

Well, that first night didn't work. My guess is this isn't going to last a week.

He DID NOT take that Zyprexa last night. He spit it out. And he was awake all night. And therefore I was awake all night. And I must have sleep to function. So this morning I'm screaming at him. Which of course disorganizes him. So he's walking around speaking nonsense - literally.

He told me that he didn't take the Zyprexa last night. He spit out as much as he could. He said he didn't realize it would keep him from sleeping. How can he not realize that? After 5+ years of this, how can he not realize he would be awake all night if he skipped the Zyprexa?

I want this to work so badly, but I... must... have... sleep.

Was he at least non-violent?

He was non-violent. He seemed confused, distressed. He has a 5 mg Zyprexa pill that he takes in the morning. I put it away last night, and he couldn't find it. He asked for it somewhat urgently during this exchange. Within 10 minutes of taking it, he'd calmed down and was thinking more clearly.

It doesn't help when I get angry. The problem is, as I see it, that I'm human. I get tired. I get stressed. I get worried. I get overwhelmed. I get angry.

This morning he ordered a computer. After we repeatedly discussed the fact that he can't afford a computer. He blew the rest of his money on a computer. And he doesn't get paid until the 3rd of April. I'm going to have to get him make me (or someone) his payee. He's essentially paid no bills for over 6 months. In fact I bought almost all of his groceries when he lived with me. And I can't afford it. Luckily this time I got him to give me $280 yesterday. That should cover his groceries, but we can't go on this way with him purchasing expensive jewelry and electronics and ignoring his bills and letting me feed and house him.

The money thing alone is stressful. Then there's the worry that he'll hit me again. Put lack of sleep on top of it all...

It's a very good idea to talk to him about having some kind of "financial executor." The best decision I made when I was unwell was to give my money to the "bank of Dad," and the money was still there when I got better, minus bills which he paid for me out of the money.

I really do hope that he'll agree to let someone else manage his money... just having the pressure of money relieved actually helped reduce my anxiety and symptoms. The payee doesn't have to be you, in fact, it might be best if it wasn't... but it needs to be somebody you both trust. It could even be a mental health professional if necessary. Ask whether they have someone who could be an executor for your son.

Also, have you considered having your son's anti psychotic medication administered via weekly or monthly injection? That way you won't have the bidaily fight.