[newtus]

why people on forums judge the soundness of mind of people with schizophrenia based on their coherent language when they type. all the time.

not all speak word salad.

you can type/speak rather coherently and not be ok.

so why do people say "your comment/post is pretty coherent. you seem like your doing ok"?
why do people say that? it pisses me off to read that.

wait. so what your a psychiatrist now? hm?

[Piraeus]

Originally Posted by newtus

why people on forums judge the soundness of mind of people with schizophrenia based on their coherent language when they type. all the time.

not all speak word salad.

you can type/speak rather coherently and not be ok.

so why do people say "your comment/post is pretty coherent. you seem like your doing ok"?
why do people say that? it pisses me off to read that.

wait. so what your a psychiatrist now? hm?

Schizophrenia is one of the most misunderstood mental illness.
When I first found out I'm schizophrenic, I knew absolutely nothing about it. I searched the web for answers. I bought books about it.Even some people that have the disease, still don't understand. All you can do is be patient with them.

[Nicks_Nose]

People also associate disability with a physical indication such as a leg injury or an illness that somehow requires equipment. Society learns from patterns. If many people who have a disorder demonstrate common traits, and then somebody else with the illness does not show that trait, it is common for the mind to assume that lack of a common trait means less severity. Or, if certain traits are promoted by media as common signs to look for in an illness, then the general public are being taught to think that.

I required use of an elevator for a while, because I could not walk up stairways. Yet, to look at me, I appeared "normal" with no visible equipment showing I could not use my knees for that function. People then assumed that if I could walk into and out of the elevator with ease, I should not have been using it.

We have to remember that people without a condition or new to a condition, are constantly fed misconceptions about illnesses all the time. You have the power to advise people patiently that this trait is not common among all people with schizophrenia.

[FireBird]

I have gotten that as well. People always comment on how well I write. People say I sound perfectly coherent. My ability to write a coherent sentence is on and off during a psychotic break. Luckily its not all the time that I write like a psychotic, just throughout the day. I believe I am nearly done with my psychotic break that I recently had so I am going to write more clearly.

People would actually think I am not disabled in anyway, shape, or form based on how I write/ speak. This goes for my autism as well. They assume all are non-verbal. Not everyone with autism is non-verbal. Yes, I do think approximately 50% are though. I am fully fluent in my speech and writing (most of the time).

My social skills are all over the place, but a lot better than even just 5-10 years ago. I am improving with my social skills everyday. Now I am able to have a decent back and forth conversation with people, something that someone with autism finds very difficult to do. It is easier doing it about subjects I love such as psychology, however. It's not perfect.

I have 3 very good friends. In my childhood, that would have been impossible.

What I hate the doctors saying to me is, "You are a complicated case." I don't like it because to me, it's very easy. I hope its just the autism just screwing it up, not that it looks suspicious to them. I am praying to God.

[newtus]

everyone that just posted above me is right on.

yes its misunderstood. yes the media feeds us BS. and yes firebird some are like you when coherency can go off and on.

mine goes off and on i think. i THINK. i require people to tell me. usually online because i..you know..i rarely venture out my house n stuff.

but you know what i mean?

thing is. im told this sometimes ONLINE.
but how i type is not even how i TALK IN REAL LIFE!
most people dont understand me. not because im you know speaking world salad type stuff (which is incoherence) but because my ability to express myself is very very tough for me. so my speech is skewed..fast..and idk how to explain it. unless you think this is bad. well my speech is worse. i think the doctors said semantic paraphrasia. i had to regoogle that. but i got it now.

please dont say "thats impossible" or "that makes no sense". ok? because i dont know why it is either anyway.

[newtus]

haha i just read what i typed.
i think i just said my speech is disorganized.

yes. to an extent.

but not my typing....i think.
ah idk!...

[FireBird]

I don't know if its true, but some people write so much better than their actual speech patterns. Even schizophrenics. I have my own words for things when I speak. I call my computer "comcrasher" or "error machine" which is a combination of the words, computer and crash. Most everything is called a "hair." This refers to any obstacle, idiot, itchy or something just going wrong. It is called that because I have curly hair and its always in my way. An airplane is called a "safe" because it is much safer than driving. I have other words for things as well. I think this actually is a result of my autism rather than the schizoaffective disorder but it might be both. I sometimes get word salad as well while speaking. Or my sentences don't connect together. It mainly happens while psychotic though and doesn't happen between psychotic breaks. In fact I can speak at autism conferences as long as I am not having an active psychotic break.

[coyotetaught]

I'm not dx'd with Schizophrenia or anything for my psychosis (again, yet. Now that epilepsy is basically out, this time I get to have an MRI. Yaaay~), but I've gotten that. Like....'wow you sound really coherent.' Well no duh, Sherlock, probably because I double-check my prose upwards of 4 times before hitting enter because otherwise it probably would look like word salad. Since my recent 'break', I've started replacing words with other words and -not even noticing it until I reread it-. Now -that- scares me.

But people don't notice this, because I type -really- fast, and often -think- really fast (had an IQ test in high school...apparently I think...oddly fast. >>; ). So I can correct myself pretty fast, and my response time turns out normal. But that bothers me, because I remember when my response time in chat and forums was -much- faster.

Now, when I communicate verbally, it's a different ballgame, because if I replace words, I only notice it a second after it comes out. And...yeah. I do not -sound- very coherent sometimes, even when I'm in full-on insight mode. It's like I...process speech differently or something. Like instead of just hearing the sentence and -getting- it, I have to do mental linguistic math. Word a (=meaning a) + word b (don't forget meaning b!)+ word c, ect = sentence 1, possible meaning 1. Again though, it's like my brain can overcompensate, because I have a very long uh...'digit memory', I think it's called? At least that's what the testing said. So I can hold the 'math' in my head until I get the meaning usually...but if people start adding more and more, or get too fast, sometimes, I'll drop the entire 'equation' and stand there for a second like 'uhhh....could you repeat that? Slower? Maybe?' Apparently that's not normal, from talking to my mom about it. Reading is easier, the 'work' and 'math' is all there on paper to refer to.

It's the same when I talk, but I end up speaking really quickly often, so I can get the 'equation' out before I forget it. And lately since the 'break', I've been having more trouble with it, and some words get replaced. It's like when I'm 'sane' I'm forced/forcing myself to think in words, but it's odd to me. I'm more 'used' to thinking in, well, -thoughts-. Feelings. The -meaning-, not the word. But it's so hard to explain and I've only met a few people who 'get' it, even a bit, both on the schizophrenia/psychosis 'spectrum', I guess you'd call it.

But I've had coherent and non-coherent times, and it doesn't change the fact that a deep part of me believes that basically I'm having thoughts shoved into my head. It doesn't matter how coherent I sound. My psychosis is -still- there, it's just a matter of how obvious it is, and how well I'm coping. :/

And really, my insight doesn't count for much either if when I see a shadow-dog that I -know- isn't really there, I still freak out, run inside, and hover over the sink because I'm so panicked I'm -sure- I'm going to be sick. My delusions are still affecting me if I act on them even though a good part of me knows they're delusions. Sometimes I wish wasn't 'insightful' about it at all. At least then I wouldn't blame everything on myself, I could just start doing some made-up 'magic' to protect the house or something and then at least feel a bit better at night. :/

Sorry if I got off track there. But basically...yeah, this psychotic person agrees, even if I don't have a dx for anything yet. :x

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by newtus

haha i just read what i typed.
i think i just said my speech is disorganized.

yes. to an extent.

but not my typing....i think.
ah idk!...

I think you type like you think! I like it, it's very pleasant to read. But yes, sometimes typing like thinking doesn't sound grammatically brilliant. Who cares? I've never seen you come close to word salad. That's like "Hello you taco my Gilgamesh" or something.

[fishsandwich]

I've always relied on being coherent as a weapon against the diagnosis. I don't know. It's not the best strategy for an ESL speaker Even worse, I live in a country where learning other languages is not really a "thing", so nobody really understands how your mind works when you speak other languages. AND I speak four of them, and when I get stressed I mix them up really badly. One time a psychiatrist was asking me if I was suicidal and I was like, 'No, I never think about "autoktonising",' which is some bizarre Greek portmaneau of a Canadian French word for suicide. It didn't support my argument that i'm not nuts and don't need drugs.

Sometimes I hear voices in my other languages and so when a "real" person talks to me, I respond in the language of the voice I'm hearing because my brain is in that mode. They don't really get it here.

Also, accent is really highly valued in certain parts of this country. All the psychiatrists have the received pronunciation, Oxbridge posh accent, like the Queen speaks. They look down on you if you speak any other way, and in English I happen to sound Scottish FOR REASONS I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND?!?!

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by FireBird

I don't know if its true, but some people write so much better than their actual speech patterns.

Can you send them my way, please? I'm so sick of editing writing by people who can speak like they're about to orate in the forum, but write like they threw alphaghetti at the wall for thirty minutes and called it "news analysis".

[newtus]

Originally Posted by fishsandwich

I think you type like you think! I like it, it's very pleasant to read. But yes, sometimes typing like thinking doesn't sound grammatically brilliant. Who cares? I've never seen you come close to word salad. That's like "Hello you taco my Gilgamesh" or something.

thats a myth actually that word salad is strictly of that extreme. it CAN get to that if someone is very not well off. but thats an extreme form. ive been in the hospital about 9 times and have met people with word salad that isnt like that.

word salad is not always incomprehensible. some people can have a mild, moderate or extreme form of it.

when you actually experience someone with disorganized speech, what they say sounds like it makes sense, sometimes it might even sound poetic or really "smart sounding" but it really isnt and holding a conversation is either half possible or not at all.

ive met some in hospitals where you can ask them stuff where only requires short answers and its completely coherent but get them to talk about something in length and its like i said above - a mild or moderate word salad.

[newtus]

the internet btw is so not the best place to find completely accurate info on schizophrenia. ive found that out being in the hospital so much. the internet makes it out to be so extreme. and while it's possible, those are only a small fraction of the population of people with schizophrenia that are to the extreme portrayed in examples on like wikipedia or other med sites. its all "copy and pasted" anyway.

[MickG]

I rely on my writing to communicate. I am very different in person. With writing, one can edit and re-edit before posting to allow a coherent sounding post. This can give the illusion we are more coherent than we would seem if spoken to face to face.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by MickG

I rely on my writing to communicate. I am very different in person. With writing, one can edit and re-edit before posting to allow a coherent sounding post. This can give the illusion we are more coherent than we would seem if spoken to face to face.

THANK YOU. THATS what i was trying to say but couldnt.

[FireBird]

I have had the nearly extreme version of word salad many times. Just most of the time I sound coherent. I also have neologisms. I described that in another post, it just means creating new words that don't make sense to others. I also have saying the wrong word for things, but that is more like a memory problem for me. Some people say I have loosening of associations. Most of the time I write better than I talk. There are times where they both are equal. I just am all over the place. But 99% of the time I write nicely. I went to my psychologist today and for some reason she was absolutely sure that I am having a manic episode, just based on how I looked and talked. Huh? I just don't understand it. It is because I am actually depressed. I am hopeless. But yet laughing at every little thing at the same time. I wonder if its actually a mixed episode, having features of both. My doctor also notices that I sometimes do have a thought disorder based on the way I speak. Other times I am at the other extreme because I speak at autism conferences and pray I am not having an episode at the time (because if I am having one, it might not always be coherent, or if coherent just really fast pressure of speech). The problem is that I haven't had an autism conference that I spoke at in a long, long time so I am losing my speaking ability. I also was in Toastmasters awhile ago and I quit that.

[Twisti]

Exactly what MikeG stated.

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by newtus

thats a myth actually that word salad is strictly of that extreme. it CAN get to that if someone is very not well off. but thats an extreme form. ive been in the hospital about 9 times and have met people with word salad that isnt like that.

word salad is not always incomprehensible. some people can have a mild, moderate or extreme form of it.

Yes, I was being hyperbolic. I've spent enough time in hospitals to know what it's like. Actually, I was accused of having it because I was apparently too articulate for a nutter.