Do you stigmatise yourself?

I've realised this evening, whilst talking to my mother, that I'm so scared of being stigmatised by others that I'm actually stigmatising myself. I'm so worried that others will find out about my diagnosis and not want to be around me, pity me or judge me as incapable. I'm freaking out about having to fill in a form for special exam arrangements because I have to get it signed by the course leader and he'll find out about me.

What I realised is that I'm ashamed of having these symptoms and this diagnosis of psychotic depression. I suppose it didn't help that the medschool made it clear that I was less capable because of my diagnosis. I think I internalised that, because now I *feel* less capable. I'm on benefits because I can't work, and I'm struggling through my Masters course and we're only 4wks in. These symptoms are such a burden that I feel I have less resources available to do what I want to do, and I'm hedging my bets about my future to ward off failure. When I was a kid I ignored all the people who said I'd never get into medschool and just did it. That didn't work out and now I'm so scared of failure that, when anyone asks me what I want to do (clinical psychology), I finish off with "but it's very competitive..." I'm practically expecting to fail!

Does anyone do this? Does anyone feel less capable because of their symptoms or diagnosis? If not, how do I get over my shame?

Mum says I should go to a local Hearing Voices Network support group, but I'm embarrassed to tell anyone I hear voices, even people who themselves hear voices. It's ok via PC because it's anonymous and I'm hidden behind a computer screen rather than face to face with somebody. IDK. Does anyone think that might help me get over this issue? It would be very hard for me to do; going to new places and meeting new people really scares me right now.

I hope my post doesn't offend anyone, as that's not my intention

*Willow*

Yeah I stigmatize myself to some degree. I never told my work until just the other day when I took my second dose of Loxapine and couldn't work or pass meds (I'm a nurse). So now my bosses know, and I feel like I just screwed myself. I am embarrassed, I suppose, though I know I shouldn't be. But should I be proud? I don't get it. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel. I mean I was just diagnosed 7 months ago and I'm still struggling with the fact.

My wife told me the other day to yell back at my visual hallucinations, to confront them so I'd let them know who's boss. But I said to her, no freaking way, that I didn't want to look the part of crazy when I try so hard to hide it.

I don't know why I hide it to be honest. I think I'm afraid of what people might think, which is strange since I used to tell myself I didn't care what anyone thought of me.

As far as a hearing voices support group for you, maybe it wouldn't hurt to just sit it on one without saying anything. I've seen tons of groups where people hardly talk at all. Maybe if you're willing to give it a go, just ease yourself into it. I know that's how I'd do it--just sit back and listen for a few sessions before I open my mouth.

Me too. I have even tried to end my life because I hate myself for being a failure so much. I was forced to go back onto my medications today. I will have to take them before I hurt others or myself. I am sorry that you are suffering too Willow, I hope that this too shall pass. I hope that we can really overcome everything possible to overcome. I believe in you beloved. You make me proud and happy to be alive, just realizing that the struggle is shared between us all. This gives me hope, when I am utterly rejected and feeling hopeless. Bless you beloved. Yours truly, Lightbulb7

I've always tried to say things to give others the impression that I am less capable than I am. I have this severe fear of failure. I don't know where it comes from. Neither does my therapist. I just feel if others don't expect much, than I'll dissapoint them less. I don't know if this has anything to do with my dx's though.

I was diagnosed 5 years ago (2 1/2 years with psychotic symptoms) and I still struggle. I suppose that maybe we should feel proud that we are fighting against these problems and doing our best, no matter how small that may be some days? You could be proud that, despite your difficulties, you can still hold down a job - I can't do that yet. I hope that you'll be okay when you next have to go into work. When people have been told about me in the past, it's made me really paranoid. Like the voices try to make me paranoid by saying "they know", but usually I can argue with them in my head and say "no they don't!" because it's not tattooed on my forehead or anything and I work extremely hard not to do anything 'weird', but when people do know then I just fall into this shame spiral and can't argue with the voices when they tell me all the things these people are thinking about me. I hope one day to be able to say "so what?" and mean it when they say "they know"...but I'm a long way from it at the moment

Yeah I totally get that. I only talk to them in my head even when I'm alone.

Yeah I think I could do that. I wouldn't jump right in because I'm not like that, but I could maybe just observe until I felt comfortable. I don't even know where the group is, I just remember seeing a poster in my pdoc's office, so I'd have to find that out first.

I'm sorry that you have to take medication again when you don't want to, but I really hope it provides some relief from your struggling.

I'm slightly different icky. I still have a severe fear of failure, but I try to overcompensate by coming over as competent as I can manage. All the while terrified that I will be 'found out' and exposed as a fraud. It's interesting to hear of another reaction to fear of failure though, thank you. Do you remember doing this before your symptoms started, as that might provide a clue as to which came first?

I think it's a shame that you all understand how I feel It's bad enough that we experience stigma from the outside world without beating ourselves up with it too

*Willow*

oops...I responded to your response on my thread before reading this.

Have you read Agnes' Jacket? It really enlightened me about other voice hearers.

I have really reduced my productivity. I get worried I will screw up. I also worry about people knowing my psych stuff. I generally volunteer instead of taking paid positions. I seldom post in this forum for fear of being "found out". Even on pc I feel stigmatized.

Thanks for the recommendation; it looks really interesting

I'm sorry that you feel stigmatised here

*Willow*

I told my work because I have some issues that become very difficult for me to work around. Memory issues. Organizational issues. I get confused and can't remember what I'm doing. Difficulty reading and understanding So, I thought if I told them what was wrong, then I would get accomidations and they would understand... wrong! And I was told I could never be considered for a promotion or to be moved to another position because of my bipolar also...

So... I do stigmatise myself, I think. Because I know I have limitations and although they are sometimes worse and sometimes better, I think I just feel like I won't ever achieve anything really. But, I don't really think it's because of the bipolar diagnosis itself, but because I seem to be getting worse symptoms all the time. Working in healthcare as I do, I see that many illnesses are progressive and so it just kind of scares me in thinking "if physical illness is progressive, then it makes sense mental illness is also progressive."

I'm sorry that work have treated you negatively since they found out about your diagnosis You would think that people in healthcare would be more understanding...but they're not, as I found to my cost at medschool.

*Willow*

I saw my mental health support worker from Uni yesterday and he commented about my lack of eye contact. It's so difficult for me to make eye contact with people, but I can generally do it if they don't know about my diagnosis/symptoms. The voices may tell me "they know" but I can argue with them. I can't exactly argue with them when I know that others know about me though, and so I get so self-conscious and just feel distinctly lacking in some way. I think people are either judging me for being 'crazy' or are judging me for not being crazy enough. I always struggle with not being good enough and not deserving anything, so I worry that anyone who helps me e.g. pdoc, GP, MHSW, CPN etc think I'm not bad enough to need support. I've been told plenty of times to "just get on with it", and not just by the voices!

This is why I don't want any of my lecturers to know because the less people who know, the less opportunity for stigmatisation like I had at medschool, and the less I stigmatise myself. One of the reasons I avoid support groups is because I don't want other people to judge me of not deserving (being ill enough) to be there, or for me to sit there and listen to what others go through and feel inadequate for being unable to deal with my trivial-in-comparison problems. One of the reasons I struggle taking meds is because I'm not sure I'm ill enough to need them.

IDK, I clearly have a lot of issues around 'deserving' things... I wish I had a T right now to talk to, but pdoc won't refer me until my meds kick in as he doesn't think therapy will help until then

*Willow*

(((((Willow)))) hope you are doing better with the medications and are having a better day.

yeah i totally get how you feel. actually, i was just told this by my own mother two days ago. i am facing eviction and having a hard time coming up with cash, so i asked my mother for help. a lecture about money quickly turned into her saying that she doesn't believe i have sz because i finished school and passed my nursing boards easily. she said at worst i have an anxiety disorder. i just said, ok whatever, and hung up.

i can hold down a job but it takes every ounce of my will and strength to do so. so i can hold down a job, pass nursing exams, and graduate from school. big deal. Elyn Saks is a law professor who graduated with honors and she's got sz. but i can't manage people, so i've got no friends, a marriage that is shaky at best, and a pervasive, paranoid fear of people.

everyone with sz is going to be different, and i think will have areas in their life that are more difficult to deal with than others. if someone judges your problems as trivial, then they're just a short-sighted idiot. just because someone may think your issues are trivial obviously doesn't make it so. i mean, they could be catastrophic to you. it's all about perception, and your perception of the issue is the only one that matters. to hell with what anyone else might think.

I don't stigmatize myself at all, but I am reasonably wary about the criticism I will reach once I enter my ideal profession. If it is found out that I am somehow mentally ill? My research will probably be viewed as biased or the idealizations of a delusional mind. But I try to remain on the positive side that maybe, with enough objective work done beforehand, they won't judge too much.

Thanks Optimize

I'm sorry that your mother said that Wayfarer, and that you're struggling with housing right now. I hope that you are able to avoid eviction

I think the problem is this self-stigmatisation whereby I've internalised this "just get on with it" attitude and so am really critical of myself. There's like this battle raging on inside me between the part that feels like it's only barely keeping things together and the part that thinks there's nothing wrong with me and I just need to suck it up. On paper I'm doing better than I was a month ago - I'm now living independently and I'm doing a Masters course - but I feel like it could all come crashing down around me at any moment. And then I think that I need to stop whining, but I feel so unstable, and the cycle repeats ad nauseam. It's exhausting!

*Willow*

I'm glad that you don't stigmatise yourself Shay; there's enough of it coming from others without us doing it to ourselves too! How do you avoid thinking badly of yourself when you're struggling - I just can't seem to stop passing judgement on how I'm doing?

What is your ideal profession? I want to go into clinical psychology and I'm hoping that they're more open minded than the medics were. There are quite a few psychologists who are open about their difficulties.

*Willow*

Well... To be truthful, I think my PD really has a lot to do with why I can't bother giving a ****! Haha. It may be counterproductive on most parts, but it really helps me to be assured of myself even when I'm down. I'm in a bit of a bad spot, as you know. Of course I'm going to second-guess myself & feel really confused... But it's not quite my fault. It's not something deserving of being judged. It just IS. There's no way of changing the inevitable. No matter how you think of it, it's going to persist, so why put yourself through more hell than the one you're in?

I want to be a research neuroscientist. Behavioural, I think, since that will allow me to study the effects of psychological AND neurological illness on the way we act/think. That really interests me... There's still a small part of me that is concerned with my own validity, but I think that's just because I know I'd cast a questionable eye at a researcher if he showed a modicum of subjectivity concerning his own observations. I'm not going to disclose, but I'm also not going to hide it if it should leak out somehow! I think putting too much emphasis on it would appear as if I was shamelessly asking for attention & validity from other people about how good I am doing.

Yeah. I used to—to the point where I believed people who said I was capable of less because some dickhead said I have sz so much that I dropped out of uni. It was a huge f*cking waste of time, believing people who said I couldn't do things just because of the sz label. I don't recall how I got over that, though . . . I think realising that the doctors are full of ***** was what did it for me.

I get this. I feel this way, too. I'm stable enough to go to work, but I'm not stable enough to work every day. I want help, but I'm not bad enough for help (or maybe I can't tell if I am?) Yes, this makes total sense to me.

i do.

i'mn always telling people- i have this, this, this, i've no idea why i do it but that's how it is for me

That's awful that a dr made you feel less capable I'm debating whether doing this course was a good idea, purely because I feel that I'm not going to be able to do it 'good enough', by which I mean get a mark I'm not ashamed of.

I'm sorry that you relate.

Do people then expect less from you because you've disclosed?

*Willow*

The funny thing is, people don't expect less from me, they expect more. I feel like everyone expects me to carry the world on my shoulders, and when I tell them I'm doing too much, they tell me I'm lazy and do more.

It's annoying.

I'm ashamed of the results of my bar exams . . . but I'm still a barrister, in the end. I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you get the qualification (and the result, if applicable) that you need to do what you want.

I still get people telling me I should be unable to do things because I was once diagnosed. I suppose what galvanises me against it is that I'm probably more educated/qualified than they are. (See also: arrogant.)

I'm sorry that you're not happy with your bar result. I get that; being a perfectionist myself, I've never been happy with most of my results. If I got 99% I'd want 100%, you know. The thing is that I need at least a commendation if I want to become a clinical psychologist to make up for my poor degree mark, and I really don't think that's going to happen. I can still get a job as long as I pass, but my chances of getting onto the clinical doctorate will be zero in all honesty.

I don't honestly know if I'm grasping at straws, wanting to do clinical psychology. I'm not sure if I'm capable of it. I think intellectually I am, but I'm not sure that realistically I can manage all the demands of this course and then working and then a doctorate. That makes me feel sad as I feel worthless by not being able to get a career. I've always wanted a career not just a job. But then I wonder if I'm just giving in to this image of me as incapable because I've got depression/?bipolar...IDK.

I don't think arrogance is bad if it allows you to believe in yourself when others look down on you. I could do with a bit of that myself. To be able to tell others, and myself when I believe them, "screw you! I'm going to do it anyway". I had that with medicine, when everyone said I'd never get accepted to medschool, but dropping out has taken all that self-belief away

It's nice to see you around fish I hope you get sorted with a permanent place to live soon

*Willow*

Sorry I didn't notice this reply until just now.

That sounds very frustrating and upsetting

I tell myself that I'm lazy all the time, that I should be able to do more, like other people seem to do. I'm constantly berating myself, whether the voices or my actual internal voice. Nothing I do is ever good enough. I sometimes get from my family that I'm lazy, which really hurts because it confirms everything bad I tell myself. Actually them calling me lazy actually makes me do less because I just get more depressed and crawl into bed rather than try to prove them wrong, so it doesn't even work as a motivator if that's what it's intended to be.

*Willow*

Yeah, negative motivation doesn't help much. It just makes you want to give up.