[kittycat97]

I hear voices of people whom i know asking me questions or having a conversation as though we are talking face to face. I sometimes have 2 types of my own voices when i make decisions. The two different voices of mine are like an angel and the devil. For eg, the angel tells me to forgive while the devil voice tells me not to show mercy. Any advice? I am really troubled about this. Am I really hearing voices or am I thinking up of them or are they my own thoughts.

[Rainbow_fishB]

Hi, i'm 15, and about a year ago i was in the same situation as you. I was refferred to a psychologist for various reasons and on eof the first questions they asked was 'do you hear voices?' I said i didnt know. Then i explained that i did but i could easily convince myself that they were just my thoughts and that i wasnt really sure what they were. The psychologist said that i could decide, basically, if they were voices or not. Well, not exactly, but she said the way to find out was to see wether you could control them, if you could make them say things, or if they spoke on their own. Then she said once i ffigured out that i couldnt control them, that if they bothered me, or were significant and not something i had always had, then we could call them voices. So we did.
i hope this helps, but i dont know if it made sense :/
Rainbow

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by kittycat97

Am I really hearing voices or am I thinking up of them or are they my own thoughts.

Can you actually hear them? Are they separate people or not?

During my breakdown I had mental processes where I could see that they might develop into "voices" that I could hear. Never quite got to that point. But I personally think that ALL those "voices" that people say they hear come from our own thoughts. Heck, I have dreams whose originality seems so great that I have a hard time believing my mind could have created them. I also think in terms of thoughts that sometimes "contend" with each other. An internal conversation. It can be very useful. I suspect that is quite normal.

[FireBird]

The primary difference between thoughts and voices is that with voices you hear it with your ears rather than silence of thoughts. I get both. But right this second its silent in my head just heard a couple of whispers but that is it. The government helicopters were real that flew over my house. It scares me but good luck.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by FireBird

The primary difference between thoughts and voices is that with voices you hear it with your ears rather than silence of thoughts.

idk about this anymore.
i thought this too but asking several doctors - some of them say certain "thoughts" can be considered voices. but its not something thats easy to tell. youd have to ask your own doctor. its different with everyone. some people say "thought-voices" too.

idk yea anyway

[Piraeus]

Originally Posted by FireBird

The primary difference between thoughts and voices is that with voices you hear it with your ears rather than silence of thoughts. I get both. But right this second its silent in my head just heard a couple of whispers but that is it. The government helicopters were real that flew over my house. It scares me but good luck.

I know what you mean about the helicopters. They fly low over my house every 15 min or so. I am afraid one is going to crash and kill a lot of people.
It feels like I am in a war zone. Like Vietnam or something. There are two air force bases within 10 miles. They do a lot of training, but I feel they are up to other things. Spying, etc......... My folks keep telling me they are just training,but I don't believe that. My folks tell me if I am not doing anything wrong then I don't have anything to worry about.

I believe it is an invasion of privacy, not to mention the noise pollution. I know all of this to be real, because I see them. Just like the voices. I hear them externally. But others don't hear them.It's kind of scary. I have paranoid schizophrenia, so my thoughts are pretty scary too.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by Piraeus

They fly low over my house every 15 min or so. I am afraid one is going to crash and kill a lot of people.
It feels like I am in a war zone. Like Vietnam or something. There are two air force bases within 10 miles. They do a lot of training, but I feel they are up to other things. Spying, etc......... My folks keep telling me they are just training,but I don't believe that. My folks tell me if I am not doing anything wrong then I don't have anything to worry about.

not sure if i live near a military base. i dont think i do.

are the planes grey? or black?

some of them are up to spying. they take aerial pictures of your house. do you have a skylight in your house?

[Piraeus]

Originally Posted by newtus

not sure if i live near a military base. i dont think i do.

are the planes grey? or black?

some of them are up to spying. they take aerial pictures of your house. do you have a skylight in your house?

The helicopters I see are orange and white. That's coast guard I believe. I have seen some of them marked Navy. I don't have a skylight though.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by Piraeus

The helicopters I see are orange and white. That's coast guard I believe. I have seen some of them marked Navy. I don't have a skylight though.

ooh i see
i see many gray helicopters. they actually fly in unison together. im wondering in attempts of me?

heres a picture i took of one group of them.
this is a photo from a video still from a video i recorded outside my house.

[costello]

I don't hear voices, but in talking to my son and listening to interviews on Madness Radio I've come to realize that it's not as straight forward as non-voice hearers imagine. My son has been through periods when he says he hears voices, and I believe he did. But then he'll deny it. For a while I thought he was lying, then I realized it's just hard to define whether he's hearing a voice or not.

I'm listening to Oliver Sacks' Hallucinations right now. He specifies in the introduction that he isn't going to discuss the hallucinations of sz (he says he's only going to cover hallucinations with 'organic' causes - funny, b/c I thought the medical model argument was that mental illness was organic). I was disappointed when he said he wasn't going to cover sz hallucinations, but it's a fascinating book nevertheless.

http://www.amazon.com/Hallucinations-Oliver-Sacks/dp/0307957241/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361322242&sr=8-1&keywords=hallucinations+by+oliver+w.+sacks

He mentions a book I've heard of before but haven't read yet: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by Julian Jaynes. His theory - which is controversial - is that modern consciousness didn't emerge until about 3000 years ago. Before that "the human brain once assumed a state in which cognitive functions were divided between one part of the brain which appears to be 'speaking,' and a second part which listens and obeys."

According to Jaynes, ancient people in the bicameral state of mind would have experienced the world in a manner that has some similarities to that of a schizophrenic. Rather than making conscious evaluations in novel or unexpected situations, the person would hallucinate a voice or "god" giving admonitory advice or commands and obey without question: one would not be at all conscious of one's own thought processes per se. Research into "command hallucinations" that often direct the behavior of those labeled schizophrenic, as well as other voice hearers, supports Jaynes's predictions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

So, I guess Jaynes would say that your voices are one part of your mind talking to another part of your mind.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by costello

I don't hear voices, but in talking to my son and listening to interviews on Madness Radio I've come to realize that it's not as straight forward as non-voice hearers imagine. My son has been through periods when he says he hears voices, and I believe he did. But then he'll deny it. For a while I thought he was lying, then I realized it's just hard to define whether he's hearing a voice or not.

I'm listening to Oliver Sacks' Hallucinations right now. He specifies in the introduction that he isn't going to discuss the hallucinations of sz (he says he's only going to cover hallucinations with 'organic' causes - funny, b/c I thought the medical model argument was that mental illness was organic). I was disappointed when he said he wasn't going to cover sz hallucinations, but it's a fascinating book nevertheless.

http://www.amazon.com/Hallucinations-Oliver-Sacks/dp/0307957241/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361322242&sr=8-1&keywords=hallucinations+by+oliver+w.+sacks

He mentions a book I've heard of before but haven't read yet: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by Julian Jaynes. His theory - which is controversial - is that modern consciousness didn't emerge until about 3000 years ago. Before that "the human brain once assumed a state in which cognitive functions were divided between one part of the brain which appears to be 'speaking,' and a second part which listens and obeys."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

So, I guess Jaynes would say that your voices are one part of your mind talking to another part of your mind.

WOW
how interesting.

religion is the first thing that came to my mind.
i am christian but struggle with the concept of mainstream christianity and all the denoms.

what did madness radio say about hallucinations?

[costello]

Originally Posted by newtus

what did madness radio say about hallucinations?

Will Hall talks about his experiences hearing voices in various interviews. There was one where he talks about a series of experiences that could be considered voice hearing. I can't remember which interview it was. I'll try to locate it.

[kittycat97]

I want to discuss this with my doctor but i am afraid of his reaction and whether or not i will be diagnose with having schizophrenia. i started to hear voices about 6 months ago. I have noticed recently that i have started to develop other symptoms of psychosis, for eg. Being suspicious that other people are trying to harm me and seeing things. Should i really go and tell my doctor? I plan to discuss the possibility of having other conditions. I am worried that he may think that i have hypochondrasis instead. On the other hand, if i don't bring up what i have on mind, i have to wait for a month to see him again. what should i do? I feel very distraught and confused now.

[costello]

Originally Posted by kittycat97

I feel very distraught and confused now.

Unfortunately I think you're right that the doctor might diagnose you with sz based on hallucinations and paranoia. I don't know what to advise as far as talking to a doctor.

My younger son's 15 year old gf claims she has a 'gift' and that she sees dead people and that she's had a 'demon' following her her whole life. Her mom believes this. Frankly when I talk to her, she doesn't seem 'crazy.' She seems like a normal 15 year old girl to me. (Not that I know that many 15 yo girls.) She seems a little unhappy and doesn't get along with her parents, but nothing out of the normal IMO. I don't think I'd advise her to tell a therapist about her experiences, because I do think she'd be labeled inappropriately.

But I don't know you. How distressing are you finding these experiences? How much of the distress is because you fear you're mentally ill? I mean, if you knew that there are 'sane' people who hear voices and see things, would that relieve your distress? How are you functioning in daily life?

If you're really distressed and not functioning well, you probably should talk to a professional.

Keep in mind that hallucinations might also be a symptom of some physical illnesses, so letting doctor know might be important.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by costello

His theory - which is controversial - is that modern consciousness didn't emerge until about 3000 years ago.

That seems a bit short. Complex civilizations were in existence already by that time...

[kittycat97]

My life will be ruined with the diagnosis! I am only 16...

[pachyderm]

Your life is yours; it will not be "ruined" by any diagnosis by anyone.

[costello]

Originally Posted by kittycat97

My life will be ruined with the diagnosis! I am only 16...

I doubt if your life would be ruined. Also, I could be wrong. I do believe that a lot of doctors try to avoid hanging really heavy labels on young people. My son has had a variety of dx's including bipolar II and psychotic disorder NOS, in addition to sz. Sz is not the first thing they went to.

If you need help, please get help.

[costello]

Originally Posted by costello

Will Hall talks about his experiences hearing voices in various interviews. There was one where he talks about a series of experiences that could be considered voice hearing. I can't remember which interview it was. I'll try to locate it.

It was the interview with Ron Unger: http://www.madnessradio.net/madness-...rapy-ron-unger

At about 20:45, Will says

So, that's interesting. So, it's the idea that again we were talking earlier about kind of a continuum of experiences. So, someone who says that they're hearing voices, demonic voices, or they're hearing entities talking to them or some kind of really mad, crazy experience, then the mental health system often, psychiatry often will say, okay, you have sort of like a broken brain in the sense that you have got this disordered disease happening called auditory hallucinations, and it's completely different from the experiences that we have normally where it's just, we're just thinking. It's our thoughts. It's not voices at all. And actually my experience is - I do hear voices and I experience, you know, uh ... I've been diagnosed for auditory hallucinations - and my experience is that there's much more of a continuum that actually thinking that I have myself and then thinking that I kind of happens to me and then thinking that kind of I can't control and thinking that starts to have like a voice quality and then voices and then voices that I can't stop and then voices that are kind of coming at me and attacking me. All that's part of a continuum in my own experience.

[kittycat97]

Still in a dilemma. I am scared the doctor will think that i am hyponchondriac instead just like my psychologist. And that hurts.

[costello]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

That seems a bit short. Complex civilizations were in existence already by that time...

I haven't read the book, and it sounds like it's complex, so I'm not sure I'd fully understand it if I did, but my understanding is that he's saying that before 3000 years ago, people didn't have an awareness or consciousness of the act of thinking or planning. I believe he bases his theory in part on examination of ancient texts like the Iliad where he doesn't see mention of thinking or planning. People have voices that direct them to do various things.

It sounds intriguing, and I keep meaning to put my hands on the book and see if I can make heads or tails of it. We have a snow storm headed our way, and I'll be snowed in tomorrow. Maybe I'll take a copy home with me and read it.

[costello]

Originally Posted by kittycat97

Still in a dilemma. I am scared the doctor will think that i am hyponchondriac instead just like my psychologist. And that hurts.

Unless you talk to him, you can't know for sure what he'll say.

[newtus]

thanks for that

theres this girl who i used to goto middle school with - i came in contact with her couple years ago. when i first saw her a 3 years i hadnt seen her since middle school and i met her mom really nice woman. seemed like a cool mom and happy. i talked to her a year later after not talking to her in a long time. she said her mom has depression issues and was at the local psych hospital where she ended up committing suicide. anyway she said she has a demon that follows her around ever since she did something with witchcraft and she see it too. kept telling me to be careful and that she cant tell me all the details about it because it will start following me too. i actually completely believe her. because i believe in that spiritual world. she would be 25 right now probably. i actually believe i have demons that try to scare me on a daily basis. i cant see them but i sometimes think i do but i can sense them and i can point to where they are located everytime anytime around me. i can hear them.

i googled julian jaynes on youtube. theres tons of videos on that stuff u said. i also found a video connected to that stuff about the God Helmet. someone connected to the theory invented a brain stimulator or somethig that can produce delusions on command in someone. the video shows him experimenting on this girl and she said she felt entities around her and pointed them out in her room. its interesting but what hes getting at i dont believe cause of my beliefs. but its interesting.

[costello]

I don't really believe in demons or spirits, probably because I've never experienced them myself. I hope I'm humble enough not to automatically discount the experiences and beliefs of others, though.

I really need to see if I can understand Julian Jaynes' theory. I'll look at youtube and see what I can find.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by costello

I don't really believe in demons or spirits, probably because I've never experienced them myself. I hope I'm humble enough not to automatically discount the experiences and beliefs of others, though.

I really need to see if I can understand Julian Jaynes' theory. I'll look at youtube and see what I can find.

i believe you are humble about it. otherwise i wouldnt feel as comfortable putting it on here if i knew id get shot down. but yea..theres some videos on there - alot from TheJulianJayneSociety...dont know if thats official or not.