Schizophrenia vs borderline personality disorder

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, as there seems to be considerable overlap between borderline personality disorder and schizophrenia. What would you say the similarities and differences are?

i dont think so at all.

i see more of an overlap between BPD and bipolar. but not schizophrenia.

the cognitive and negative symptoms of schizophrenia just dont appear a huge problem in someone with BPD

I agree, that BPD overlaps or mimic bipolar and not schizophrenia. I've never heard of any overlapping traits of BPD and schizophrenia. But, there are overlaping traits of bipolar with schizophrenia.

I'll explain what I mean. For instance, both can have paranoia, hallucinations, and the changes in mood. Perhaps in schizophrenia there is a common theme to the delusions and hallucinations? They just seem pretty similar to me.

axis I vs. axis II dx.---------- i don't know that BPD in and of itself has symptoms of hallucinations and paranoia unless there is also also a dx of Sz, psychosis, or mania added to the BPD dx. i could be wrong.

my opinion is that bpd is a dx that has become very popular and is over- diagnosed. 20 yrs ago it was rarely dx'd. it is what i call the flavor of the month dx.

this is my opinion. i hope i am not offending anyone.

psychosis isnt common in BPD fyi.

if someone has psychotic symptoms they most likely are going to have a dual diagnosis of a psychotic disorder or psychosis NOS. or even a psychosis added onto the BPD. but thats the key words: added-on or dual diagnosis.

BPD in itself is not a psychotic disorder. its a personality disorder. most will not get psychotic symptoms with just BPD alone.

and schizophrenia is a thought disorder mainly btw. named such because it involves cognitive processes that get screwed up. people can have schizophrenia and NOT have psychosis. the underlying frame work is that the cognition is screwed. and most people after the psychosis is gone will have trouble with cognition and negative symptoms.

you may be saying there is an aspect of schizophrenia that correlates with BPD. but truthfully BPD within itself does not involve psychosis. if someone with BPD has psychotic symptoms they probably do NOT have BPD alone.

BPD is often referred to as being very close in symptoms (with a different core) to bipolar, maybe that's what you're thinking of? Also, there are some symptoms of BPD that can be similar to the kind of thought distortion schizophrenia often presents with, but with BPD they're usually triggered by events, especially ones to do with personal relationships. It also seems pretty common for people with BPD to also be diagnosed with psychosis, but BPD alone is not a psychotic disorder.

Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified: An Essential Guide for Understanding and Living with BPD, Robert O. Friedel, MD

He goes on to list several specific symptoms: brief episodes of paranoid thinking, dissociative symptoms, magical thinking, depersonalization, and unstable self-image or sense of self. At another point, he does clarify that "it now seems clear that borderline disorder is not related to schizophrenic disorders."

(As an aside, I really recommend this book, it's written by a professional with lots of experience and it's well researched! There are a lot of junky pop-science books out there on BPD that aren't written by professionals (How To Stop Walking On Eggshells for one!) or that are written by professionals who don't really know much about BPD. Friedel is great, and he talks about a lot of the uncertainty in the diagnosis and the ongoing research.)

Personally, as someone with BPD and psychosis, I feel like they intertwine a lot. The worse psychotic episodes I had were almost always triggered by my BPD, and the kind of paranoia I get over people and relationships and things like that feels basically psychotic to me, it's that overwhelming and "real". A lot of the cognitive problems I had I'm still not sure if they were due to psychosis or BPD (or possibly Bipolar since we're still not sure if that's a possibility). Even though the definition has changed, I can see why it was originally named "borderline" as in the border between neurosis and psychosis. But schizophrenia as a diagnosis is a lot more complicated than just psychosis, and sometimes it doesn't even include what we typically consider psychosis, like catatonic schizophrenia. I wouldn't say BPD has much in common with schizophrenia.

Anyway, mental illness is basically categorized as symptom clusters and there's a lot of overlap between many different mental illnesses. It's also complicated because many people, especially people with chronic and severe mental illness, have comorbid disorders!

mimi2112, would you mind if I just copy & paste my response to this from a similar thread in the BPD section?

Where I am, it's definitely overdiagnosed but it's also not treated like a real diagnosis if that makes sense? I was talking to my psychiatrist awhile back and joking that every woman I know who's been through the mental health care system has been diagnosed with BPD at least once, and it's true! If you're a mentally ill woman, at least here, you're going to have it on your file at least once, especially if you overlap with some of the symptoms or challenge the doctors.

But often these woman aren't told they have BPD, or if they are it's basically almost used as a threat, ie, you challenged us therefore you have BPD. Many of the same professionals I've met seem really scornful about BPD and the incredible amount of dysfunction and pain it can create, not to mention the real danger of suicide. And so it's not really treated like a real diagnosis, just something to call mentally ill woman acting erratically or that doctors don't like, and those of us who really have it are completely dismissed a lot of the time.

Anyway, I really do have BPD, at least my diagnosis has been confirmed by numerous doctors, I have all the symptoms, and I definitely think that I have it given the criteria. I feel like I've been brushed off a lot because of it though, (I have other comorbid disorders too) and so it was surprising to me to read my files and see stuff like severe BPD and high suicide risk because I've always been kind of brushed off and treated like I need to just toughen up and get over it! I've even had well-meaning professionals tell me NOT to have it put on my file (not like I had a choice) because I'd be treated poorly because of it.

I'm sure this has a lot to do with where I live since I'm not american, but I think BPD is both overdiagnosed and possibly underdiagnosed as a seriously and legitimate disorder, not just an insult for your female clients!

ive never been diagnosed with BPD. at least not to my knowledge BUT im extremely positive it hasnt been done behind my back though. but you never know with psychiatry.
thankfully though theres no records of me having it on official dx sheets from hospitals/facilities and other professionals. who knows why they write in their notes though...!

@Laina
may i ask what led them to diagnose u as bpd?

i know the reality of BPD. as reading about it and having known someone very close with it. your right they do brush you off if u have that dx.

i still think BPD is way closer to bipolar.

i believe if i had been diagnosed as bipolar i prob woulda been dxd with bpd too. i was Dxd as bipolar once. but it was a complete misdiagnosis. the Doc said i was bipolar because i was raising my voice in his office and getting angry because i was tired of the meds he given me. i had every right to be - i became severely physically ill on an extreme amount of meds he gave me and he wouldnt listen to me when i said i was becoming ill from them!!! so i became very angry.

no coincidence that that was the first AND only time i got a bipolar dx. he was a horrible doctor. absolutely horrible. med pusher. didnt listen.

btw that doctor actually ruined an aspect of my college career in the beginning of my going to college.

i had tried to get disability services from my college to assist me and i had to bring in a note or get him to fax it to them. i asked him 3-4 times and he said he faxed it already. come to find out he never did. they have a time limit when i can get it in. a month passed which was my time frame. and yea i found out he NEVER sent it. he said "i do not know anymore ok?". that sent me over the edge. HE RUINED MY ABILITY TO POSSIBLY TO WELL IN COLLEGE. COMPLETELY RUINED. i talked to them twice about it and they said once the deadline has passed i can no longer try to recieve disability services as long as i am enrolled here. i was SO completely distraught and upset. i mean i worked through EVERY and i mean EVERY single mode of official AND unofficial help for college. he ruined the one single aspect that would have helped me the most.

on top of me seeing him and being under his care he didnt even listen to my dads comments and opinions on my treatment.

it just....it truly truly truly upsets me because the 1 time i actually took my meds and was fully compliant was under his treatment and he messed me up physically and mentally and set back my life SO COMPLETELY... i put 100% trust in him and he f_cked me over.

thanks to him i no longer trust psychiatrists AT ALL. i dont. ive had bad psychiatrists but he was by far the worst I HAVE EVER HAD.

That's terrible that psychiatrist did that to you, Newtus. What a horrible thing to have happen. It's also unfortunate the college had such a strict rule about disability.

is it strict?

ive only been to community colleges. two diff ones. but i only tried disability in 1. is this typical for college to do this?

Wait.... I'm feeling very confused today....

Never mind. I keep misunderstanding what I'm reading. >.<