[Sometimes psychotic]

Welcome to MindFreedom Shield Campaign ? MFIPortal

Thought this was interesting---for some reason I just can't escape the possibility that I will one day be treated wrongly by psychiatry...while I have had pretty excellent care I recognize that all of it is contingent on the individuals involved and there are some bad ones. For example I was discussing my release with one of the staff(presumably a nurse) and raised my voice---she pushed an alarm and said I wouldn't get away from the door when the team of 4 staff showed up. Oddly she had never asked me to get away from the door---I was in fact entirely unaware of the door, that's just where the nurses station is.

Its funny because you read accounts by the professionals where they are supposedly great at de-escalating situations but clearly they just don't want to be bothered even to have a conversation.

Anyway I like the idea of having a team to support you in case you find yourself involuntarily committed, forced to take meds or other psychological traumas.

[blackwhitered]

I got restrained and given an injection for absolutely no reason at a hospital. Several other patients were acting out/throwing fits and they were getting restrained, and that made me think that the staff was murdering them. I got really panicked and tried to open the door, then when they came toward me I tried to run away from them. Neither of those actions warrants being restrained and given an injection-- those are (or should be) for people who are a danger to themselves or others.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by blackwhitered

I got restrained and given an injection for absolutely no reason at a hospital. Several other patients were acting out/throwing fits and they were getting restrained, and that made me think that the staff was murdering them. I got really panicked and tried to open the door, then when they came toward me I tried to run away from them. Neither of those actions warrants being restrained and given an injection-- those are (or should be) for people who are a danger to themselves or others.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm afraid of...in my state forced meds are illegal but they just have to write that you were dangerous whether you were or not...that's why I worry about a culture of lies in those hospitals...I can't believe that they can justify this stuff medically....I'm sorry you were treated that way

[newtus]

i remember being strapped down to a bed once. and being thrown in quiet rooms and kept there for a long time.

[newtus]

i remmeber one time trying to escape the ward and i ran out the door and got pretty far. then two grown fat men tackled me to the ground and almost knocked my teeth out.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by newtus

i remember being strapped down to a bed once. and being thrown in quiet rooms and kept there for a long time.

The problem is it's like they own you...even if you say something no one is going to believe you when you're that sick...plus it's not like I know the staff names so how would I file a complaint for rights violations anyway I mean I could barely fill out the intake paperwork how am I going to file a complaint?

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

The problem is it's like they own you...even if you say something no one is going to believe you when you're that sick...plus it's not like I know the staff names so how would I file a complaint for rights violations anyway I mean I could barely fill out the intake paperwork how am I going to file a complaint?

You don't need to know the names of the staff, the hospital is responsible for any actions the staff takes.

You have to make sure you document everything. This includes getting copies of requests/petitions for release, and ideally signed affidavits by witnesses. If you voluntarily commit yourself and then request to be released the hospital must release you in a timely manor or commence civil commitment proceedings in a court. Since the voluntary commitment form is a contract, you can sue for breach of contract if you can prove they violated the terms of the contract (i.g. they failed to release you on written request in a timely manor). If you sue for breach of contract, you'll need to have incurred actual damages (i.g. loss of income) to win anything. If the hospital is screwing with you (i.g. refusing to release you) it's good to give the head staff a Writ of Habeas Corpus. This is more or less a request that states you want to be brought before a judge or magistrate. They must comply with this request, if they also fail to comply with this you can file a civil action against them for violating the criminal statute for false imprisonment; you can seek punitive damages with a claim such as this.

Remember document document document. You also have a right to speak with an attorney while in the hospital. Document everything, anything you think might be a civil rights violation, then go straight to an attorney when you get out. If your in a state that allows covert voice recordings have someone sneak in a voice recorder. Some hospitals allow the use of cell phones, download a voice recording app, record video, take pictures. Document document document. Some staff know what they're doing is wrong, and will delete things; upload everything to youtube or the internet.

Did I mention that you need to take extreme measures to document everything? The reason they're so flippant about our rights is nobody gets the proof necessary to take them to task in court. Ideally you want to accumulate enough evidence to force them into a out of court settlement or get a summary judgement, otherwise it will probably end up being a waste of your time. Also remember that anything they put in your file (i.g. your requests for release) must be kept by them, and you will have access to everything in your file during discovery. Typically the statute of limitations is 2 years on civil rights violations and personal injury claims.

I will recommend that you actually consult an attorney while you are in the hospital about your specific problems. Sometimes just letting the staff know that you're talking to a lawyer will get them to "do the right thing". Last parting words... if you can't prove it, then it didn't happen. No one is going to readily believe a crazy person, so back your allegations up with actual proof.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by nbritton

You don't need to know the names of the staff, the hospital is responsible for any actions the staff takes.

You have to make sure you document everything. This includes getting copies of requests/petitions for release, and ideally signed affidavits by witnesses. If you voluntarily commit yourself and then request to be released the hospital must release you in a timely manor or commence civil commitment proceedings in a court. Since the voluntary commitment form is a contract, you can sue for breach of contract if you can prove they violated the terms of the contract (i.g. they failed to release you on written request in a timely manor). If you sue for breach of contract, you'll need to have incurred actual damages (i.g. loss of income) to win anything. If the hospital is screwing with you (i.g. refusing to release you) it's good to give the head staff a Writ of Habeas Corpus. This is more or less a request that states you want to be brought before a judge or magistrate. They must comply with this request, if they also fail to comply with this you can file a civil action against them for violating the criminal statute for false imprisonment; you can seek punitive damages with a claim such as this.

Remember document document document. You also have a right to speak with an attorney while in the hospital. Document everything, anything you think might be a civil rights violation, then go straight to an attorney when you get out. If your in a state that allows covert voice recordings have someone sneak in a voice recorder. Some hospitals allow the use of cell phones, download a voice recording app, record video, take pictures. Document document document. Some staff know what they're doing is wrong, and will delete things; upload everything to youtube or the internet.

Did I mention that you take extreme measures to document everything? The reason they're so flippant about our rights is nobody gets the proof necessary to take them to task in court. Ideally you want to accumulate enough evidence to force them into a out of court settlement or get a summary judgement, otherwise it's probably will end up being a waste of your time. Also remember that anything they put in your file (i.g. your requests for release) must be kept by them, and you will have access to everything in your file during discovery. Typically the statute of limitations is 2 years on civil rights violations and personal injury claims.

Yeah this was 2.5 years ago so it's probably too late...they didn't allow cell phones or other electronics although I kept hiding my cell when I supposedly put it in my purse so I had it for like a day. I do know for sure my rights were violated because in this state they are supposed to give you a list of the meds you are taking potential side effects and alternative treatments so you can make an informed decision. They didn't even tell me one of the meds and told me the other was for sleep rather than an AP. They did give me the appropriate papers for the new AP they prescribed when I left but I was so mad I didn't even fill the prescription. But I didn't know this was illegal until last week or so plus I was in treatment with the head of the inpatient unit and I liked him and wouldn't want to cause him any trouble. But yeah I was so busy recovering with his help it would have been like suing your mom or something. Plus who is going to believe someone psychotic...I already filed a false report of rape because I had a delusion so you know I wasn't the most reliable person at that point but yeah if it happens again ever I'll follow your advice.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Welcome to MindFreedom Shield Campaign ? MFIPortal

Thought this was interesting---for some reason I just can't escape the possibility that I will one day be treated wrongly by psychiatry...while I have had pretty excellent care I recognize that all of it is contingent on the individuals involved and there are some bad ones. For example I was discussing my release with one of the staff(presumably a nurse) and raised my voice---she pushed an alarm and said I wouldn't get away from the door when the team of 4 staff showed up. Oddly she had never asked me to get away from the door---I was in fact entirely unaware of the door, that's just where the nurses station is.

Its funny because you read accounts by the professionals where they are supposedly great at de-escalating situations but clearly they just don't want to be bothered even to have a conversation.

Anyway I like the idea of having a team to support you in case you find yourself involuntarily committed, forced to take meds or other psychological traumas.

Yeah this crosses my mind as well. what if it happened to me? My first goal would be to get out of hospital. my second goal would be to take a non im dose of antipsychotics. my 3rd goal would be to sign up with some kind of mental health advocacy group , a group that essentially know the law and can make representations on my behalf. Do they have people that advocate in the states?

If your having acute psychosis , know it will pass. I'm not sure i would take an oppositional stance in hospital. Such a stance would only cause stress and has the potential to hasten psychosis. How about just get your mind straight , take what they give you and once out make your own decisions. Anti psychotics are rough but their not that bad. It seems to me that the most anyone is inside for these days is only a few weeks. Long term stays at least from where i come from are fairly unique.

[blackwhitered]

I apologize in advance that this post is going to be so long!

The first time I was put in restraints, they put a net over me because I tried to get out. Then they put a towel in my mouth because I spit at them.

On another occasion I punched a staff member and got put in the quiet room. I obviously shouldn't have punched her and can understand being put in the quiet room, but when they were holding me down in preparation for restraining me, a heavy male staff member was leaning on my back so hard that I could not breathe (note that I am a skinny 17 year old girl). They told me I needed to stop moving before they could take me to the quiet room, but I physically COULD NOT STOP because I couldn't catch my breath. It got so bad that after I tried yelling that I couldn't breathe, several of the boys (different wing) came up to the door to the girl's wing and were banging on it, telling the staff to let me go.

When they got me to the quiet room, I was given an injection even though I was cooperating. They did not offer medication orally, as they were supposed to. The staff in the quiet room were male and when they gave me the injection, they completely pulled my underwear down, exposing everything in front of everyone. And they left it like that, so I had to pull it up while in restraints. They also left me with a large male staff member watching from the doorway, even though I literally BEGGED for a female staff member to watch me (because I pretty much felt like I had just been raped.) When one of the nurses finally came in, I told her I felt sick and like I was going to pass out, which she just brushed off as "the medicine". I ****ing hate that word. Medicine is supposed to help you, not scare the **** out of you. Oh, and that was pretty much the only time they spoke directly to me the whole time I was restrained (like 2 hours).

They kept me in the quiet room for two days, during which I ate nothing and developed a delusion that the staff had raped me. When I tried to complain, both to higher-ups (who literally said things like "Oh please") and to the formal complaint office (by then the delusion had subsided and I was able to accurately report what they had done to me) they did nothing. I later heard from other patients that they too had been held down so they couldn't breathe, and one was actually CHOKED by a staff member.

I also knew a girl who had been put in the hospital for ODD, but really her primary issue was severe PTSD, relating to being raped by multiple guys, some family members. Unfortunately whenever she acted out, they would have several large guys come over and immediately grab her... which would trigger flashbacks and make the situation worse... She got restrained a lot and was eventually separated from the group entirely and made to sleep and spend her days in the quiet room, in gowns, under constant surveillance, completely separated from her peers. It was really sad.

[newtus]

your story reflects on mine a lot blackwhitered.

especially the whole pulling my underwear down in front of the male staff. ive had that happen multiple times. its like heartbreaking. this is what made me hate psychiatry and disown it for two years. and for a long time my family didnt even believe my stories. i had no reason to lie. i was actually a good kid when i was younger. very obedient to my parents so idk why they didnt believe me at first. idk if some still even believe me. what happen to me. i mean.

i remember being held down after i ran out of the word. they were squishing the air out of me. two footballer sized men. i weighed 105 pounds or so at the time.

one time i was so psychotic i grabbed a chair and put it in front of my face and body to protect me and a male staff member tried to beat me and strangle me.

and havng all this done to you - you have no one to talk or run to.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by paulycoll

Yeah this crosses my mind as well. what if it happened to me? My first goal would be to get out of hospital. my second goal would be to take a non im dose of antipsychotics. my 3rd goal would be to sign up with some kind of mental health advocacy group , a group that essentially know the law and can make representations on my behalf. Do they have people that advocate in the states?

Yeah I'm definitely trying to put a plan together but one of the complexities is they take your smart phone away and I have everything in Evernote right now. But yeah so here they can hold you 72 hours and you can refuse meds unless a danger to self or others...(I just worry they wouldn't give me the right meds I know work so I don't want to take just some random AP)(this is based on what happened to Costello's son where they would not give him olanzapine). Then within 14 days you get a trial and can opt for a jury...the problem is the trials are terribly biased with a 90%-100% win rate for the docs...

If you get a jury the minute you say yes I'm hearing voices you would be detained even thought the criteria is danger to self and others and not mental illness. So you've got a judge...how do you convince him that a pdoc is wrong...you actually have to have other expert witnesses and people testify for you and it's best to avoid testifying for yourself because you will get stuck answering questions honestly about the voices and you may have been illegally drugged prior to the hearing on the pretense that you were a danger and in no state to testify. The only way I can think to win is to call one of my old pdocs to testify on my behalf or talk to the pdoc and somehow take over responsibility for my care or something because I doubt they would testify against another pdoc. And if I was stuck finding a random pdoc to testify 14 days would not cut it.

Also there are violence stats...most of the increase in violence among people with sz is actually due to concomitant drug use....also there is a huge benefit to being female. Our violence rate in the general population is like 1/6 th that of men. So I think they would be hard pressed to be convincing. Also there is a UN resolution that considers it a human rights violation to treat mental illness above the minimal loss of liberty required for safety. Anyway there is a number in my state for legal defense but you have to pay if you can afford it and it sounds like quite frankly you need to appeal to win and get enough evidence together. The other thing that is different in the states is that you are literally being charged $2000 a day for your treatment whether you want it or not. You are literally paying for your own incarceration! Anyway I just want to know what the options are...the best plan is probably take meds get better get out.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by blackwhitered

I apologize in advance that this post is going to be so long!

The first time I was put in restraints, they put a net over me because I tried to get out. Then they put a towel in my mouth because I spit at them.

On another occasion I punched a staff member and got put in the quiet room. I obviously shouldn't have punched her and can understand being put in the quiet room, but when they were holding me down in preparation for restraining me, a heavy male staff member was leaning on my back so hard that I could not breathe (note that I am a skinny 17 year old girl). They told me I needed to stop moving before they could take me to the quiet room, but I physically COULD NOT STOP because I couldn't catch my breath. It got so bad that after I tried yelling that I couldn't breathe, several of the boys (different wing) came up to the door to the girl's wing and were banging on it, telling the staff to let me go.

When they got me to the quiet room, I was given an injection even though I was cooperating. They did not offer medication orally, as they were supposed to. The staff in the quiet room were male and when they gave me the injection, they completely pulled my underwear down, exposing everything in front of everyone. And they left it like that, so I had to pull it up while in restraints. They also left me with a large male staff member watching from the doorway, even though I literally BEGGED for a female staff member to watch me (because I pretty much felt like I had just been raped.) When one of the nurses finally came in, I told her I felt sick and like I was going to pass out, which she just brushed off as "the medicine". I ****ing hate that word. Medicine is supposed to help you, not scare the **** out of you. Oh, and that was pretty much the only time they spoke directly to me the whole time I was restrained (like 2 hours).

They kept me in the quiet room for two days, during which I ate nothing and developed a delusion that the staff had raped me. When I tried to complain, both to higher-ups (who literally said things like "Oh please") and to the formal complaint office (by then the delusion had subsided and I was able to accurately report what they had done to me) they did nothing. I later heard from other patients that they too had been held down so they couldn't breathe, and one was actually CHOKED by a staff member.

I also knew a girl who had been put in the hospital for ODD, but really her primary issue was severe PTSD, relating to being raped by multiple guys, some family members. Unfortunately whenever she acted out, they would have several large guys come over and immediately grab her... which would trigger flashbacks and make the situation worse... She got restrained a lot and was eventually separated from the group entirely and made to sleep and spend her days in the quiet room, in gowns, under constant surveillance, completely separated from her peers. It was really sad.

That sounds awful...I wish I could say something that would help...

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by newtus

your story reflects on mine a lot blackwhitered.

especially the whole pulling my underwear down in front of the male staff. ive had that happen multiple times. its like heartbreaking. this is what made me hate psychiatry and disown it for two years. and for a long time my family didnt even believe my stories. i had no reason to lie. i was actually a good kid when i was younger. very obedient to my parents so idk why they didnt believe me at first. idk if some still even believe me. what happen to me. i mean.

i remember being held down after i ran out of the word. they were squishing the air out of me. two footballer sized men. i weighed 105 pounds or so at the time.

one time i was so psychotic i grabbed a chair and put it in front of my face and body to protect me and a male staff member tried to beat me and strangle me.

and havng all this done to you - you have no one to talk or run to.

This is exactly the kind of thing that terrifies me....I'm sorry you experienced that...

[Sometimes psychotic]

OK so its even worse if you are in jail----Don't read this if you are easily triggered...

Horrors Behind These Walls - Free-Times.com

[newtus]

"Roe said cutters arent suicidal - they are looking for a release"

hes right.

very sad. i read most of it.

[RRex]

I hate to say it, but I had all the paperwork in place and it didn't mean **** to the "machine". They did their thing with me, laws be damned. I haven't been the same since.

They kept me from contacting my lawyer about it too.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by RRex

I hate to say it, but I had all the paperwork in place and it didn't mean **** to the "machine". They did their thing with me, laws be damned. I haven't been the same since.

They kept me from contacting my lawyer about it too.

That's terrible---did you have an advance directive?

[RRex]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

That's terrible---did you have an advance directive?

Yes. All my legal paperwork was ignored. They forced treatment on me and failed to call my emergency contact.

Yeah resistance is futile. Psychiatry is too powerful because 'normal' people are scared of MI.

*Willow*

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by RRex

Yes. All my legal paperwork was ignored. They forced treatment on me and failed to call my emergency contact.

Wow just wow....hmm maybe I'm overthinking all this like I actually have a chance of winning when I don't....hmmm. The system is definitely set against us...

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Wow just wow....hmm maybe I'm overthinking all this like I actually have a chance of winning when I don't....hmmm. The system is definitely set against us...

Just work on staying well & hope for the best, that's all you can do

*Willow*

[RRex]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Wow just wow....hmm maybe I'm overthinking all this like I actually have a chance of winning when I don't....hmmm. The system is definitely set against us...

They were on the cusp of committing me for nothing. I got out of it by working the system there. They had nothing on me with which to commit me. They used it as a threat and denied every request I made to talk to my lawyer.

All you can do is play it cool.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Just work on staying well & hope for the best, that's all you can do

*Willow*

Thanks---its very hard for me because I can't feel my psychosis coming on---its just suddenly there in full force so I always worry that I won't get treatment from my pdoc on time---they tell me it will never happen again but they really don't know...

I keep thinking of my last delusion that pdoc was working for the devil---like I was going to contact him then...I mean the hallucinations are pretty straight forward but the delusions are so unstoppable...but thank you, I will try to have a more positive outlook, I'm just kind of one of those people that has to have all the scenarios worked out even if they are unlikely.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Thanks---its very hard for me because I can't feel my psychosis coming on---its just suddenly there in full force so I always worry that I won't get treatment from my pdoc on time---they tell me it will never happen again but they really don't know...

I keep thinking of my last delusion that pdoc was working for the devil---like I was going to contact him then...I mean the hallucinations are pretty straight forward but the delusions are so unstoppable...but thank you, I will try to have a more positive outlook, I'm just kind of one of those people that has to have all the scenarios worked out even if they are unlikely.

Yeah I can see why a sudden onset would be scary. I don't think I've ever gotten to the point where I'm completely out of it, but that is a big fear. I just don't see how we can overthrow the psych overlords from the inside, so you just have to work on managing stress & staying as healthy as possible & reality checking in order to stay away from them (psych)

*Willow*