[alpot]

Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

Delusions unlike hallucinations are not rooted in any sensory input (voices or vision). If these are just beliefs however idiosyncratic, I don't see how the dopamine theory explains it. The connection between dopmanine receptor blocking and delusions is unclear to me.

Specifically, my son (16) has had the cops called on him twice for no fault of his and after watching police brutality videos has developed a legit fear of cops. He feels his (pacing, stimming and other odd behaviors) are target for bullies to get him in trouble with the law. His fear of cops has reached obsessive levels so much so that he refuses to interact with others because they will call the cops on him.

Would you say this is delusional thinking or fear rooted in reality?

[Rand.]

I'm not sure that would be classified as a delusion per se. Maybe it is, I can't make that call. For me, my delusions stemmed from pretty well nowhere and were a bit odd (like cameras in the sky, a secret organization were watching my every move to recruit me because of my special abilities etc). It does sound like your son needs help though if it's reached what you described. It sounds like something that deeply troubles him and is really taking over. I'm not sure if it's a fear rooted in reality, but it does sound like fear for sure. I think others might be able to give more insight on this, though.

[Sometimes psychotic]

So the dopamine theory isn't really good at explaining much...alterations in nmdar signalling explain more but the link between the neurotransmitters and actual symptoms is at this point primarily based on responses to street drugs like pcp or cocaine as they act through distinct pathways and can cause similar effects. Most people who do research don't believe it's that simple with some areas of the brain being over or under stimulated. For example simply losing your vision can cause visual hallucinaitons in something called Charles bonnet syndrome....you're not mentally ill at all you just hallucinate due to sensory deprivation and this can be mimicked in float tanks etc where you aren't getting input you tend to hallucinate. There is no some sort of chemical imbalance just a lack of input. Delusions well I haven't even seen speculation as to what causes that but in my mind it's more important that the meds work to stop them over time and they do.

So back to your question....is it delusional....maybe it sounds more like OCD type thinking but it could also be delusional. So there are a couple of kinds of delusions one is called bizarre one is not. People with schizophrenia and related conditions often have the bizarre ones...ie there is a secret organization of psychic doctors that wants me to join them and this is my initiation. In contrast there is another disorder called delusional disorder...now the definition has changed in the dsm 5 but previously the delusions had to be non-bizarre ie plausible. The cops are after me etc. These delusions are things that are actually possible in this world but a little weird and unlikely and probably not the most rational conclusion. They changed it because the definition of bizarre was so subjective but yes you can have delusions that are pretty realistic. But here is the thing I'm not an md I can't tell you what it is or isn't....this is something that's impacting his life in a negative way get him to a doctor and get it dealt with. Once he's 18 you can't do anything so get it dealt with while you still have the ability to do so. For this I would say see a psychiatrist so meds can be used...if it is a delusion it doesn't matter how much you talk through it....

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

So the dopamine theory isn't really good at explaining much...alterations in nmdar signalling explain more but the link between the neurotransmitters and actual symptoms is at this point primarily based on responses to street drugs like pcp or cocaine as they act through distinct pathways and can cause similar effects. Most people who do research don't believe it's that simple with some areas of the brain being over or under stimulated. For example simply losing your vision can cause visual hallucinaitons in something called Charles bonnet syndrome....you're not mentally ill at all you just hallucinate due to sensory deprivation and this can be mimicked in float tanks etc where you aren't getting input you tend to hallucinate. There is no some sort of chemical imbalance just a lack of input. Delusions well I haven't even seen speculation as to what causes that but in my mind it's more important that the meds work to stop them over time and they do.

So back to your question....is it delusional....maybe it sounds more like OCD type thinking but it could also be delusional. So there are a couple of kinds of delusions one is called bizarre one is not. People with schizophrenia and related conditions often have the bizarre ones...ie there is a secret organization of psychic doctors that wants me to join them and this is my initiation. In contrast there is another disorder called delusional disorder...now the definition has changed in the dsm 5 but previously the delusions had to be non-bizarre ie plausible. The cops are after me etc. These delusions are things that are actually possible in this world but a little weird and unlikely and probably not the most rational conclusion. They changed it because the definition of bizarre was so subjective but yes you can have delusions that are pretty realistic. But here is the thing I'm not an md I can't tell you what it is or isn't....this is something that's impacting his life in a negative way get him to a doctor and get it dealt with. Once he's 18 you can't do anything so get it dealt with while you still have the ability to do so. For this I would say see a psychiatrist so meds can be used...if it is a delusion it doesn't matter how much you talk through it....

Delusions unlike hallucinations are not rooted in any sensory input (voices or vision)

The above is not true. Hallucinations puts pressure on the psyche , and are a large part of delusions , in fact they are the number one reason at least for me they were. I know there is a delusionary personality disorder and schizotypal personality disorder , where hallucinations are less of a problem and where delusions are the major problem.

[Sometimes psychotic]

So there is delusional disorder...

Delusional Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central

You can pretty much have any kind delusions but if you have the typical auditory hallucinations it meets the criteria for schizophrenia if it lasts long enough. If its shorter then schizophreniform. Materly, I agree with you in that my delusions were tied into my hallucinations which is one of the things that made them bizarre but some people believe perfectly plausible things that aren't actually true without ever hallucinating. The two processes seem to be independent in the way that you can have a cough or a runny nose independently but sometimes a single issue can cause both. The thing is there is not great research on delusions out there that I'm aware of, they are pain to treat and to me the absolute worst part of psychosis. I know when I started to relapse a little bit maybe a year and a half ago I had hallcuinations and delusions in a sporadic and unconnected manner. At one point I thought for example that my pdoc was working with the devil to suppress my powers with medication----I wasn't hearing voices or having any sort of hallucination when I though that. I was to the point of tears believing I had been tricked. In this case the whole thing was triggered by a mouse trap catching a mouse irl. The sound woke me in the middle of the night and my bird also started flapping about but I had no conscious awareness of the sound so for 3 hours I thought I was psychically connected to my bird etc.---it wasn't until morning when I saw the mouse that I put it all together and realized I was wrong. Now pdoc doesn't think it was a delusion because it went away with proof to the contrary but whatever it was you could have had pdoc sign on his own life that he wasn't working with the devil but I never would have believed it until I saw the mouse. All this was while on meds so I'm not sure what impact that had on the level of belief.

[Rand.]

Thing that bugs me then is why does an antipsychotic help my symptoms of things like paranoia? I've only ever hallucinated once several years ago (that I know of). And in that case the hallucination only strengthened the delusion and wasn't because of it.

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Adespota

Thing that bugs me then is why does an antipsychotic help my symptoms of things like paranoia? I've only ever hallucinated once several years ago (that I know of). And in that case the hallucination only strengthened the delusion and wasn't because of it.

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

I'm not sure but antipsychotics are the only effective treatment for delusions etc that I know of but they seem to take a lot longer to work than for hallucinations so I'm not sure its actually the dopamine inhibition as a direct thing. The whole pathway is complex because even for the case of hallucinations you can have a lower level of NMDAR signalling but blockade of D2 receptors can increase levels of expression of NMDAR correcting that problem which has nothing to do with levels of endogenous dopamine being too high or too low. So targeting a particular molecule in the cell doesn't actually mean that its the actual cause. In some cases though there clearly is too much dopamine like after taking street drugs like cocaine/amphetamine and antipsychotics work on that too through direct dopamine blockade. One argument that's been made is that the drugs have sort of an epigenetic effect leading to changes in gene methylation and transcription which changes multiple genes at once. The short answer is we have no idea why any of this happens----there are lots of models but there is only one class of drugs that works for this stuff right now(antipsychotics) so it almost doesn't matter what the underlying mechanism is. Basically you pick a drug based on side effect tolerability and effectiveness rather than any sort of actual mechanistic reason.

Originally Posted by alpot

Specifically, my son (16) has had the cops called on him twice for no fault of his and after watching police brutality videos has developed a legit fear of cops. He feels his (pacing, stimming and other odd behaviors) are target for bullies to get him in trouble with the law. His fear of cops has reached obsessive levels so much so that he refuses to interact with others because they will call the cops on him.

Would you say this is delusional thinking or fear rooted in reality?

The thing with delusions and delusional thinking as opposed to flat out hallucinations is this: hallucinations can often be pretty clearly identified as hallucinations:

Do you hear/see/smell/feel that? No? Ok, so that does not exist in our shared reality and is a product of one person's brain [or ingested chemicals or what not].

Delusions are a bit different because there can be a grey area and often they require a comparison to the norm.

One of the responses to the OPs question was that this is not delusional thinking per se.

My response is that the response to have a heightened fear, anxiety or exacerbated response to a police or any general authoritative presence would not be abnormal in this given context.

For it to be the focus of obsessive thinking and to interfere with ADLs or life in general- particularly to the point where it prevents functioning in any major categories- social, hygeine, general physical health, etc? THAT is where it is a problem.

I would also suggest examinging the situation in this way, OP:
You are aware of these stressful and frightening situations and these factors that are leading your son to be fearful to the extent that it is interfering with his life.

Are you, on his behalf, so fearful that he may be randomly approached by, accosted by, possibly arrested/abducted by the police or another authority that you think it reasonable for his life to be disrupted to this extent?

Or is YOUR life disrupted to a great extent based on these fears for him?

The reason I would ask you to maybe look at the situation from that angle is that gives a good comparison to see what may or may not be reasonable or appropriate response.

If you don't share the same life-disruption? I would say that, actual clinical delusion or not, there are major problems. You can' diagnose them, but you see that he is falling down a hole. He is still sixteen, he is still a minor, so you have the power to help him whether he wants it or not. Before he becomes a legal adult, I really suggest you entertain the idea of addressing this issue and pushing addressing the clear alienation these fears are causing- WHICH ARE VERY REAL TO HIM.

The longer they go on, the more problems they cause and the harder they will be to address. The second he turns 18, you legally can't do anything to change that unless he wants you to, basically.

I know that wasn't your question, but I think it's important to address that. He's probably a whole lot of scared about a lot of things that he may not even share.

You probably know that. But he's almost 18.

Originally Posted by Materly

Delusions unlike hallucinations are not rooted in any sensory input (voices or vision)

The above is not true. Hallucinations puts pressure on the psyche , and are a large part of delusions , in fact they are the number one reason at least for me they were. I know there is a delusionary personality disorder and schizotypal personality disorder , where hallucinations are less of a problem and where delusions are the major problem.

I wanted to reply to the op author , it turns out i replied to you , anyway spot on about delusional disorder , to my embarasement i called it delusionary. It sucks when i try to be all factual and then make a statement of ignorance!

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

The thing with delusions and delusional thinking as opposed to flat out hallucinations is this: hallucinations can often be pretty clearly identified as hallucinations:

Do you hear/see/smell/feel that? No? Ok, so that does not exist in our shared reality and is a product of one person's brain [or ingested chemicals or what not].

Delusions are a bit different because there can be a grey area and often they require a comparison to the norm.

One of the responses to the OPs question was that this is not delusional thinking per se.

My response is that the response to have a heightened fear, anxiety or exacerbated response to a police or any general authoritative presence would not be abnormal in this given context.

For it to be the focus of obsessive thinking and to interfere with ADLs or life in general- particularly to the point where it prevents functioning in any major categories- social, hygeine, general physical health, etc? THAT is where it is a problem.

I would also suggest examinging the situation in this way, OP:
You are aware of these stressful and frightening situations and these factors that are leading your son to be fearful to the extent that it is interfering with his life.

Are you, on his behalf, so fearful that he may be randomly approached by, accosted by, possibly arrested/abducted by the police or another authority that you think it reasonable for his life to be disrupted to this extent?

Or is YOUR life disrupted to a great extent based on these fears for him?

The reason I would ask you to maybe look at the situation from that angle is that gives a good comparison to see what may or may not be reasonable or appropriate response.

If you don't share the same life-disruption? I would say that, actual clinical delusion or not, there are major problems. You can' diagnose them, but you see that he is falling down a hole. He is still sixteen, he is still a minor, so you have the power to help him whether he wants it or not. Before he becomes a legal adult, I really suggest you entertain the idea of addressing this issue and pushing addressing the clear alienation these fears are causing- WHICH ARE VERY REAL TO HIM.

The longer they go on, the more problems they cause and the harder they will be to address. The second he turns 18, you legally can't do anything to change that unless he wants you to, basically.

I know that wasn't your question, but I think it's important to address that. He's probably a whole lot of scared about a lot of things that he may not even share.

You probably know that. But he's almost 18.

Just wanted to say that this is an amazing response I think it really clarifies things.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

So there is delusional disorder...

Delusional Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central

You can pretty much have any kind delusions but if you have the typical auditory hallucinations it meets the criteria for schizophrenia if it lasts long enough. If its shorter then schizophreniform. Materly, I agree with you in that my delusions were tied into my hallucinations which is one of the things that made them bizarre but some people believe perfectly plausible things that aren't actually true without ever hallucinating. The two processes seem to be independent in the way that you can have a cough or a runny nose independently but sometimes a single issue can cause both. The thing is there is not great research on delusions out there that I'm aware of, they are pain to treat and to me the absolute worst part of psychosis. I know when I started to relapse a little bit maybe a year and a half ago I had hallcuinations and delusions in a sporadic and unconnected manner. At one point I thought for example that my pdoc was working with the devil to suppress my powers with medication----I wasn't hearing voices or having any sort of hallucination when I though that. I was to the point of tears believing I had been tricked. In this case the whole thing was triggered by a mouse trap catching a mouse irl. The sound woke me in the middle of the night and my bird also started flapping about but I had no conscious awareness of the sound so for 3 hours I thought I was psychically connected to my bird etc.---it wasn't until morning when I saw the mouse that I put it all together and realized I was wrong. Now pdoc doesn't think it was a delusion because it went away with proof to the contrary but whatever it was you could have had pdoc sign on his own life that he wasn't working with the devil but I never would have believed it until I saw the mouse. All this was while on meds so I'm not sure what impact that had on the level of belief.

Ah yes , but , delusions can and do spawn out of fear and crucially if you examine what constitutes and manifests as fear in ones body , it can take many forms . Such as what pdocs call tactile hallucinations , or somatoform hallucinations

[Sometimes psychotic]

I wasn't afraid though I just noted my bird was awake and flapping rather than asleep when I was it sort of respawned an old delusion that she was my familiar and could filter the voices so we were psychically connected---but for that to be true everything I had learned since going on meds had to be wrong----pretty easy way to negate all that is pdoc is working against me and hey why not throw in the devil just for kicks

But for sure I did get delusions in response to tactile hallucinations---ie heart attack etc went to the ER---but the one with the mouse really was the only one I had that didn't involve a hallucination and to be fair it did require an auditory input the mouse trap.

I think there does have to be a stimulus in general its just usually something most people consider meaningless. A plane might fly over or whatever, but something, just not always a hallucination I think. I have to admit I know a lot less about delusions though they just aren't well studied and I was so unaware of them at the time that everything I know is based on memory/hindsight.

Yeah , we all have our backgrounds and are shaped by what has happened to us all. Even me.

[costello]

Originally Posted by alpot

Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

Delusions unlike hallucinations are not rooted in any sensory input (voices or vision). If these are just beliefs however idiosyncratic, I don't see how the dopamine theory explains it. The connection between dopmanine receptor blocking and delusions is unclear to me.

Specifically, my son (16) has had the cops called on him twice for no fault of his and after watching police brutality videos has developed a legit fear of cops. He feels his (pacing, stimming and other odd behaviors) are target for bullies to get him in trouble with the law. His fear of cops has reached obsessive levels so much so that he refuses to interact with others because they will call the cops on him.

Would you say this is delusional thinking or fear rooted in reality?

Your son sounds similar to mine, although mine's 29.

My son says that paranoid people are paranoid because really bad things have happened to them.

My son is also very fearful of the police due to a number of negative interactions with them and reading/viewing negative police stories on the Internet. Just yesterday he called me to report that he saw two police cars parked on the road with the officers talking to each other while he was out for a walk. That unnerved him enough that he needed to call me. A few hours later he had a difficult time at the grocery store. I'm not exactly sure what happened, but I gather that his paranoia was higher because he'd seen the cops that morning. So at the store he was even more nervous and stiff acting, and he's afraid he creeped people out or scared them because he was acting oddly. But he was acting oddly because he saw the cops and wondered if they were talking about him and if they were going to confront him and begin asking him questions about where he was going and what he was doing there and so on - which has happened to him on a number of occasions.

I guess my point is that fear generated by actual events might spread to other neutral areas of a person's life and it might infect their personality and thinking. At least that's how I think of it.

It's not clear to me that your son is delusional from what you've said. My son is definitely paranoid and obsessive. He has also been delusional in the past. A tiny few of his delusions have been bizarre, but most are things that could really happen: people are spying on him or plotting to hurt/kill him, people are breaking into his home and taking his things, etc., etc., etc.

As to the dopamine theory, I don't really buy into the medical model of mental illness. I think it's more rooted in trauma. But that's because I believe my son's problems stem from trauma and not brain chemistry. Maybe it's different for other people. I do think my son's more sensitive than many other people. (He hates it when I say that. ) He's also an imaginative and creative person. Under stress and pressure, he just tends to move in the direction of delusions. He's also paranoid, because he was bullied a lot in school. Even at his best, he's paranoid. So his delusions tend to be paranoid - or very occasionally grandiose, which is just paranoia flipped on its head IMO.

I don't know if that helps any, but I see a similarity between your son and mine, and mine didn't have his first psychotic episode until he was 20.

[alpot]

He is seeing a pdoc and currently on Latuda, Zoloft and an Anti-Histamine and is getting the help he needs.

Even though the fear of cops seems somewhat borderline delusional, he has had true blue delusions before such as:

1. The NSA is watching him through his webcam, so he covered the webcam.
2. All of fast food is genetically modified. So he would not eat BK or MCD for
a month.
3. School = Government = Puppet of the Illuminati, so I'm not doing homework.
4. We are all brainwashed to work 9-5 jobs and serve the illuminati.
5. There is a ghost trapped in his Nintendo game cartridge and playing it will
release the ghost. He accidentally played it once and then started going to
church after school for several months begging the priest for an exorcism

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

The thing with delusions and delusional thinking as opposed to flat out hallucinations is this: hallucinations can often be pretty clearly identified as hallucinations:

Do you hear/see/smell/feel that? No? Ok, so that does not exist in our shared reality and is a product of one person's brain [or ingested chemicals or what not].

Delusions are a bit different because there can be a grey area and often they require a comparison to the norm.

One of the responses to the OPs question was that this is not delusional thinking per se.

My response is that the response to have a heightened fear, anxiety or exacerbated response to a police or any general authoritative presence would not be abnormal in this given context.

For it to be the focus of obsessive thinking and to interfere with ADLs or life in general- particularly to the point where it prevents functioning in any major categories- social, hygeine, general physical health, etc? THAT is where it is a problem.

I would also suggest examinging the situation in this way, OP:
You are aware of these stressful and frightening situations and these factors that are leading your son to be fearful to the extent that it is interfering with his life.

Are you, on his behalf, so fearful that he may be randomly approached by, accosted by, possibly arrested/abducted by the police or another authority that you think it reasonable for his life to be disrupted to this extent?

Or is YOUR life disrupted to a great extent based on these fears for him?

The reason I would ask you to maybe look at the situation from that angle is that gives a good comparison to see what may or may not be reasonable or appropriate response.

If you don't share the same life-disruption? I would say that, actual clinical delusion or not, there are major problems. You can' diagnose them, but you see that he is falling down a hole. He is still sixteen, he is still a minor, so you have the power to help him whether he wants it or not. Before he becomes a legal adult, I really suggest you entertain the idea of addressing this issue and pushing addressing the clear alienation these fears are causing- WHICH ARE VERY REAL TO HIM.

The longer they go on, the more problems they cause and the harder they will be to address. The second he turns 18, you legally can't do anything to change that unless he wants you to, basically.

I know that wasn't your question, but I think it's important to address that. He's probably a whole lot of scared about a lot of things that he may not even share.

You probably know that. But he's almost 18.

[punkybrewster6k]

My 14 year old daughter Bean says every movie or show on tv that we choose to watch is one that she was thinking of.

That she somehow caused it to appear on the tv. She is very excited and thrilled to have this power. Feels very powerful and psychic.
There is no reasoning with her about this.

punky

[costello]

Originally Posted by alpot

He is seeing a pdoc and currently on Latuda, Zoloft and an Anti-Histamine and is getting the help he needs.

Even though the fear of cops seems somewhat borderline delusional, he has had true blue delusions before such as:

1. The NSA is watching him through his webcam, so he covered the webcam.
2. All of fast food is genetically modified. So he would not eat BK or MCD for
a month.
3. School = Government = Puppet of the Illuminati, so I'm not doing homework.
4. We are all brainwashed to work 9-5 jobs and serve the illuminati.
5. There is a ghost trapped in his Nintendo game cartridge and playing it will
release the ghost. He accidentally played it once and then started going to
church after school for several months begging the priest for an exorcism

Again, he sounds similar to my son. Some of his beliefs are reality-based, just a bit over the top. A lot of people are worried about the NSA and GMO foods. A lot of people question our culture and what we're taught. I have some concerns about those things myself.

And the ghost in the Nintendo? Sane people do believe in ghosts. Sane people do ask priests to intervene for them.

My son once moved into my house during a psychotic episode. He didn't sleep for three days straight. He told me my father's ghost was living in my basement. I think when a psychotic person tells you something like that, he's trying to communicate something real, but it's cloaked in symbolism for some reason. It's like dream symbolism.

My son now can tell me about this stuff sometimes. He can even look back on previous psychotic episodes and explain what he was thinking at the time. "I was hoping when I said X, you'd understand Y." It can be very idiosyncratic connections that I never would have picked up on. And he can have very odd reasons for not just saying what he means. The point is, he does have insight into the fact that he's thinking and speaking and acting symbolically. He just approaches things tangentially, not head-on. It can be difficult to talk to him sometimes, because he'll say something hoping for a specific response from me, and sometimes I fail to deliver.

So, when your son talks about the NSA, on one level he's worried about the NSA - although he's more worried and taking it more personally than is warranted. On another level, though, he may be telling you he doesn't feel safe for some reason. You may have to deal with that level too. Sometimes with my son I can ask point-blank if his real fear is X even though he's talking about Y. (I can make a good guess since I know him.) Some really good discussions can come out of things like that. Sometimes, though, I say the wrong thing, and it's a pretty tense conversation. A lot of landmines in conversations with my son.

[alpot]

Yeah, I do think some of the things he says are not all whacky. I mean these are legitimate concerns and controversies that can be found on the internet and you are right that he has a tendency to personalize it for some reason and take it way over the top.

I also find him to get on the defensive when I question these things he believes in. It's like "Dad, how can you not see all this?". My response to that is usually "I understand all of this is true, but how does it relate to you?".

Did you find a diagnosis for your son?. I'm very interested to know how he is holding up.

Originally Posted by costello

Again, he sounds similar to my son. Some of his beliefs are reality-based, just a bit over the top. A lot of people are worried about the NSA and GMO foods. A lot of people question our culture and what we're taught. I have some concerns about those things myself.

And the ghost in the Nintendo? Sane people do believe in ghosts. Sane people do ask priests to intervene for them.

My son once moved into my house during a psychotic episode. He didn't sleep for three days straight. He told me my father's ghost was living in my basement. I think when a psychotic person tells you something like that, he's trying to communicate something real, but it's cloaked in symbolism for some reason. It's like dream symbolism.

My son now can tell me about this stuff sometimes. He can even look back on previous psychotic episodes and explain what he was thinking at the time. "I was hoping when I said X, you'd understand Y." It can be very idiosyncratic connections that I never would have picked up on. And he can have very odd reasons for not just saying what he means. The point is, he does have insight into the fact that he's thinking and speaking and acting symbolically. He just approaches things tangentially, not head-on. It can be difficult to talk to him sometimes, because he'll say something hoping for a specific response from me, and sometimes I fail to deliver.

So, when your son talks about the NSA, on one level he's worried about the NSA - although he's more worried and taking it more personally than is warranted. On another level, though, he may be telling you he doesn't feel safe for some reason. You may have to deal with that level too. Sometimes with my son I can ask point-blank if his real fear is X even though he's talking about Y. (I can make a good guess since I know him.) Some really good discussions can come out of things like that. Sometimes, though, I say the wrong thing, and it's a pretty tense conversation. A lot of landmines in conversations with my son.

[costello]

Originally Posted by alpot

Did you find a diagnosis for your son?. I'm very interested to know how he is holding up.

My son has had a variety of diagnoses over the years: bipolar II, psychosis NOS, paranoid schizophrenia, and chronic paranoid schizophrenia.

It's been a long, hard struggle, but currently he's stable. He's unable to work much, so he's on disability. He lives on his own in a house my sister owns, so she gives him a huge break on the rent.

After years of resisting mental health services, he's now working with a psychiatrist in private practice. He's on a very tiny dose of Zyprexa. His pdoc is weaning him off the medication to see if he can stay stable without it. Right now he's taking 3/8 of the lowest dose pill available. They've been lowering it by 1/8 each month. He's told me that he intends to stop at 1/4 of a pill and stay there. As the dose as gotten lower, he's starting to have trouble sleeping, so he's going to keep the last tiny bit to help him sleep.

Sleep is huge issue btw. Is your son having trouble with sleep?

My advice to you is to be skeptical of the mental health field. They're useful, but they're going to push meds as the only solution. Meds are only one tool that can help. Keep researching and talking to people about other things have can help.

Keep the lines of communication open with your son. My son and I had a terrible relationship when this started and through the early years. When things got really, really bad, he'd instinctively turn to me for help, but it was constant conflict. I only started making progress with him when I stopped trying to force medication and started investigating alternatives. Ironically, he's now on medication and has been for several years.

Really talking to a person in psychosis is an art not a science. And each one is different. You'll learn as you go. I always assume my son makes sense and has something he's trying to communicate, even if it sounds like nonsense at the moment. For my son some of his most frustrating moments come with being misunderstood or not listened to. That's the worst thing I can do-- let my mind wander when he's talking to me. And he can get really angry if I don't understand him - even if it's just because the phone is breaking up. I've had to work with him to calm himself when things like that happen. If I ask him to repeat himself, he gets angry. If I pretend I understood, then later in the conversation it becomes apparent I didn't, he gets angry. We're at a point where we can talk about these things openly, and I've told him that talking to him is like walking through a field full of landmines. I've learned more and more things that set him off, but he can still surprise me sometimes. And sometimes I relax my vigilance and put my foot in my mouth. Honestly the less I say, the better. Listening is really important. And demonstrating that I heard what he said and understood it. He seldom actually wants advice at this point.

You have a long journey ahead of you, I think. It sounds like you're on the right track, though. It's about respecting the other person. The mental health system often isn't respectful of people like my son. They tend to forget he's a person too.

[alpot]

An article that explains the mathematical basis of delusions. It is quite a fascinating read.


How delusions occur, and why they may be widespread! | Science Brainwaves